appiah4 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Ok so I'm painting my ETL vow of terminators, and yesterday I decided to flip through my codex for inspiration on painted terminators. Once that was done, I remembered I also have a Deathstorm box so I started to flip through that. Only to discover that every single model photographed in that box is the exact same model in the Codex. Every. God. Damn. One. Were you wondering why the Death Company Raphen has such a stupid loadout? Turn to your codex and look at the Death Company entry. Hello Raphen, you were here all along. Ever wondered why Cassor did not heave a Heavy Flamer? Turn to your Death Company Dreadnought page in the Codex and.. whoa, hello Cassor my old friend! Even the Terminator Squad Alphaeus is the same Terminator Squad in the codex, right down to the scribbled names on the models. GW did not paint a single damn model for the box except for the eye blinding ugliness that is Karlaen. They did not even bother with creating sensible unit loadouts for the formation either, they just wrote the loadouts for the painted models they already had down. Apparently, the whole thing was put together in a few days with what they had at hand. GW, why do you hate BA so much? Seriously, tell me. Have BA killed your puppy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 The Heavy Flamer on the Terminator squad kind of makes sense to fight Tyranids but I agree with the rest of what you are saying... Although I don't mind Karlean and think he's alright looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 This thread isn't very productive dude. A lot of people also like the Karlaen model, me included. He's pretty amazing for conversion too. Do remember that campaign boxes are not supposed to be super formations for the game to serve the hard core, Shield of Baal especially was another starter set to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 This thread isn't very productive dude. A lot of people also like the Karlaen model, me included. He's pretty amazing for conversion too. Do remember that campaign boxes are not supposed to be super formations for the game to serve the hard core, Shield of Baal especially was another starter set to an extent. Is being a starter box an actual excuse for providing starters with suboptimal (and in the case of the Death Company loadout a trap) unit builds just because that's the models you have at hand? How hard could it have been to put together and paint 3 new units? It's counterproductive only if you believe raging against it won't change how they put together future campaign boxes, in which case let's just pack it all up and stop collecting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Do remember, that the load outs may be a little weird, but it does give us the option of TROOPS choices DC and DC DREAD. Which in itself is incredible. Plus Karlaen's rules are very powerful in the right list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Do remember, that the load outs may be a little weird, but it does give us the option of TROOPS choices DC and DC DREAD. Which in itself is incredible. Plus Karlaen's rules are very powerful in the right list. A cherry flavored turd is still a turd, have you come across anyone that uses the Raphen DC because it's Troops? The point stands, they did not make it useless because of design choice, they made it useless because they are LAAAAAAZY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think it is pretty insulting to assume the design team is lazy, purely because the rules don't live up to your arbitrary standards or aren't as poweful as more current formations. If you look at the previous campaign boxes before SoB, like the ork/Wolf one they are in the same boat. The squads are all restricted and most of the time actually offer no benefit. No to mention, SoB is encroaching 2 years old now... So is this really the mist productive argument to be had? :P One minor thing though - did you buy the set, out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 I got the box and sold off the figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Then you can't reeeeeally complain :P You voted with your wallet to GW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Wait death storm came out before the new book. So wouldn't that make the new codex lazy? Or do you mean the old codex? Also I think it's important to remember that gamesworkshop plays this game completely different from us in that they play completely fluffy games to the max, so that's why you get raphean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Folks, keep this constructive please. If it falls into a giant whingefest it will be locked faster than you can say Sanguinius. Wait death storm came out before the new book. So wouldn't that make the new codex lazy? Or do you mean the old codex? Also I think it's important to remember that gamesworkshop plays this game completely different from us in that they play completely fluffy games to the max, so that's why you get raphean. That's actually a good point. So it was the same models used because the photos were taken at the same time. Also, quite often the models are made by the design team and rules added afterwards (Forgeworld does this, the BA Assault TDA box was like this (i.e. the banner), and so on). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 How is the load out of the units in deathstorm somehow more fluffy than other more sensible load outs? If you are arguing fluff, why isn't there the option for the DC to have artificer armour? Sanguinary Guard cvan fall to the black rage too. Why can't veterans pick their equipment from the armoury when they wear TDA? etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Whilst I do agree that the Deathstorm Box wasn't anything super special, I've had allot of fun running the campaign book with my Tyranid buddy. I'm in the minority, because I really like the Captain Karl model. Do remember, that the load outs may be a little weird, but it does give us the option of TROOPS choices DC and DC DREAD. Which in itself is incredible.Plus Karlaen's rules are very powerful in the right list. A cherry flavored turd is still a turd, have you come across anyone that uses the Raphen DC because it's Troops? The point stands, they did not make it useless because of design choice, they made it useless because they are LAAAAAAZY! I use them so I can run an All DC List, but then my gaming group inst very competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Personally. I would allow anybody to field the shield of ball deathstorm formations and units with whatever load out they wish. Ie. My house rule would be that any units from deathstorm would essentially be replaced with their equivalent codex entry plus their sobds bonus rules. Oh. And allow an even swap of tactical and assault terminators if they wish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Would you keep them unique? Or would you essentially give them 5th Ed DC without the restrictions of that edition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Would you keep them unique? Or would you essentially give them 5th Ed DC without the restrictions of that edition? All units are unique named units, I would just give them their current up to date codex entry plus whatever special rule is available to them from deathstorm as a free formation bonus. (Plus let the terminators swap to assault terminators and correct their point values to match codex space marines) I see no reason to punish an oponent for GW's mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I wish more people were so understanding... I hear a lot more of "no gw must have wanted it that way, it wouldn't be balanced if x was cheaper" Not those exact words but basically that's the feeling I get when I bring it up to other players before they demolish me with invisible grav cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Would you keep them unique? Or would you essentially give them 5th Ed DC without the restrictions of that edition? All units are unique named units, I would just give them their current up to date codex entry plus whatever special rule is available to them from deathstorm as a free formation bonus. (Plus let the terminators swap to assault terminators and correct their point values to match codex space marines) I see no reason to punish an oponent for GW's mistakes. That is very nice and understanding of you. So Raphen's DC can have up to 15 members, can remove their jump packs, take a transport and have any load out a normal DC can have but are a troops choice. Cassor can have a flamer and a drop pod, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Deathstorm came out before the codex. Your argument is invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Deathstorm came out before the codex. Your argument is invalid. No it's not; reversed timing does not change the fact that they used the models painted for the Codex for the campaign supplement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think it does dude. "we need some death company, a terminator squad and a DC dread" "cool just use there we painted for the codex." "time and money saved." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Well with how expensive the codex is and basically everything gw puts out, I would hope they would say "let's provide our loyal customers with a truly unique and quality product" not "save money and time by cutting corners" and then charge as much as they do generally. Having said that, deathstorm was an amazing deal for all the models it included so idk if that justifies them just reusing stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Often though these discussions happen here and we have no idea how GW really works internally. I'd leave it at that. We're just circling here as we have different opinions. Let's stay positive and stay brothers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Sorry charlo I didn't mean to call you out or anything! I know you are just trying to be positive which is def what we need right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 The 'Eavy Metal team has no time for that lol. That's why you have alot of "hobby team" studio armies in the WD and even campaignbooks/codices these days. Painting models to that standard (even if you may not like it, it's good from a technical point) is time consuming, and they have to finish new releases rather than old models that are already painted^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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