An Imperial Fist Descendant Chapter.

[BrightStarNova]

Hi. So I was deciding between before and decided to make my own group.

 

I Love the Imperial Fists but painting yellow is TOUGH.

 

Also I would like to make my own lore because if I were to use an existing chapter I sort of feel like that might conflict with the lore.

 

But mostly because painting yellow is tough.

 

Any suggestions ?

 

No matter what side either renegade or loyalist they would be descended from Imperial Fists.

 

I would need to make a good name, some background lore, and figure an army list.

 

The main idea for a name I thought of was "Imperial Templars".

 

But not sure.

 

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[Canadian_F_H]

Well...

 

Existing successors include the crimson fists, celestial lions and black templars amongst others. So I would read as much as I could about those plus the founding imperial fists. Use those as a base line, you don't want to do anything that contradicts existing lore to much I assume, and it might help a bit. So if you wanted to claim your new successor was comprised of the 1st company of the founding legion which was called the tenplars, that very well would have been in conflict with the fact that that is where the black templars predominantly came (at least their name and founder anyhow) from along with the first co captain sigismund becoming the 1st high Marshall of the black templars.

 

Of course you could be a 3rd or later founding chapter too... by which time names aren't quite as indicative of the chapter's origin.

[BrightStarNova]

Well so far they would use Fist or Templar Rules.  Crimson Fists and Templars are not nearly as tough to paint. 

 

They are 7th Founding. That way they aren't one of the top beginners and are somewhere in the middle which is vague enough to be plausible.

 

I actually did study many of their descendant chapers.  They even have groups would Red Templars, White Templars, and many others.

 

They could have a home world. Thought of several names for planets.  Or they could be fleet based wanderers.

 

Imperial Fists are really tough to paint but when done right they are epic.

 

One idea was Crimson Fist scheme but 2 red gauntlets instead of 1

 

Or Templar Sceme but with yellow instead of white Shoulders.

 

Merely ideas.

 

After the scheme and name it would be background and lore. Maybe some fanfiction.

 

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[Canadian_F_H]

Well. 2 red gauntlets is actually a thing for crimson fists if I am remembering right. Maybe a veteran thing...

 

Also, some imperial fists and black templars wear a crimson gauntlet after fighting alongside crimson fists, having earned it according to the standards of the CF chapter. (I don't recall the criteria however)

 

Also, there was a renagade chapter from the imperial fist lineage, I don't recall the details, I think they wore purple armour...

 

 

 

Now a properly developed later founding imperial fist successor could blend IF and BT chapter tactics. Ie, take one or more detatchments with either CT. Just remember that the rules cause you to lose CT if you attach a character from one to a unit from another. But so long as you don't do that you should be fine. And the lineage of the chapter could support it. If it's a chapter which a significant portion spent a great deal of time fighting alongside black templar crusades, they could have developed a similar ct.

 

Perhaps when they were founded officers from orthodox imperial fist chapters as well as black templars were assigned to train the chapter at its founding.

 

It could yield interesting results. Imperial fist CT gladius(or sternhammer) formations and black templar CT CAD crusader squads etc. Plus taking Pedro counts as and an emperors champion in the same match would be cool... fluff wise anyhow ...

 

I'm rambling, but the tldr is that you don't have to pick one or the other CT exclusively with a home brew chapter.

[BrightStarNova]

That might be. I don't have the old books with the Heraldry anymore.

 

I think there was lore about that as a bonding experience when they team together for comradery.

 

Soul Drinkers. They are heretics.

 

What Is CT?

 

So far I have 4 Space Marines With Bolt Pistols And Close Combat Weapons from a decade ago. I was struggling to paint them yellow. Then add either a white or red Helmet. They are remnants of my original army from years ago so they get the honor of being 4 of my veterans.

 

I also have a Librarian with a Force Axe.

 

I hate taking established heroes when I can avoid that recently. But I'm also more obsessive compulsive than I was years ago.

 

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[Canadian_F_H]

Well. CT = chapter tactics

 

As for the named charactwrs, you'll obviously just be using their rules not the actual guy, and you could build a new model for said dude. And an emperors champion is unique to the army, but clearly not an actual unique individual... and more interestingly used to be mandatory.

[Erasus]

The usual main theme with Imperial Fists Successors, especially late ones, is the concept of Knights. Templars, Knights, Crusaders, Exemplars, Lords, Iron, Hammers, Fists are all knightly things so feel free to expand it a bit beyond Templars. Even Lions falls into the idea of classic heraldry for Knights.

 

Here's a few names;

 

Paladins Errant

Iron Griffins

Iron Wolves

Amber Lords

Crusaders Gallant

Ashen Hammers

Imperial Wardens

 

I'm fully aware some of these names are rubbish but they're more food for thought than anything else

 

EDIT: this bit doesn't matter, it's already been mentioned

As for colour scheme, I'd avoid the Crimson Fists two handed one because the Crimson Fists paint their other hand when they become veterans.

 

Have you used any of the painters on this website?

[BrightStarNova]

Yes. I tried several guides. One of the issues of the toughness of the painting might be the base coat. Antique Gold seems to be like a much darker yellow. That would probably be better than bright yellow. But when I ink wash antique gold that turns into WW2 German Style Paint Scheme.  When I do that with Bright Yellow that is so so like the imperial fists were fighting and got hit by a bunch of dirt and grime on their armor. It might be good for that recently been in a battle style rather than a traditional pristine style. Painting Yellow is tough either way.

 

Some of those names are actual factions.

 

Some of the main names I've thought of so far were:

 

Imperial Templars

Star Striders

Silver Fists

Silver Stars

 

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[Canadian_F_H]

Whew... naming things is hard...

 

It's the number one reason I never built a home brew chapter...

 

 

Iron templars

Adamantine templars

Crimson templars

Crimson knights

Iron knights

Adamantine knights

Iron crusaders

Adamantine crusaders

Crimson crusaders

 

Yes some of these probably exist, I was just going for completeness of the patern

[slitth]

How about the Sol Dawn.

Sol for the Sol system, the Imperial Fists adopted homeworld and Dawn as a play of words for Dorn.

A fleet based chapter that moves from siege to siege.

They do this show that any world would be as impossible to conquer as the imperial palace as long as the successors of Dorn watch over it.

[BrightStarNova]

Thoughts On The Idea Of :

 

Blue Like Crimson Fists, but instead of Firsts, they have a Red version of the Templar's Symbol?

 

Figuring A Good Paint Scheme Is Tough.

 

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[Lysimachus]

So something along these lines then:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/simoncherylm/spacemarine2.jpg

The Space Marine Painter (available in the DIY Resources thread at the top of the Liber subforum if you want to have a play about with schemes yourself) doesn't have the Templar badge available but the crux is hopefully similar enough to get the feel across? I also took the liberty of adding white shoulder insets, as it references the BT and shows off the red quite nicely!

 

On names, I'd think about if there is a specific aspect of the IF character you want to focus on. If they're more aggressive, Templars or Crusaders is a good fit, but if you're going for the more stubborn/siege masters aspect, then maybe Guards/Castellans. Something like Knights could work either way I guess.

[BrightStarNova]

Actually, That Paint Scheme Seems Really Quite Awesome With The Blue Armor, White Shoulders, And Red Templar Symbol On That.

 

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[Doctor Perils]

That specific blue is probably a bit too reminiscent of the Ultramarines, but if you go with a darker blue it might be too reminiscent of the Crimson Fists (my head hurts...)

Also, don't be afraid to use a different style cross then the Templars': there are many many many styles of heraldic cross and I feel the Maltese cross is used just a bit too often in 40k. (the cross patée is notably absent, possibly because of Nazi germany connotations :( )

Quick side-note: When thinking of a colour scheme, it's also a good idea to think of how you mean to represent your company in it (do you use shoulder pad trim colours, aquila colours, numeral on knee etc.)

What aspect draws you to the Imperial Fists? I also think they are quite awesome, but my reasons for that might be different from yours, so its important we understand what you want from them.

Do you have any idea of what kind of battle doctrine you'd want to use? For instance, the Imperial Fists are known for their siegecraft, but the Black Templars are known for their brutal assaults. Having some sort of idea of a chapter speciality can be a good jumping off point for starting to write your fluff :)

Another good starting point is if you want to draw any inspiration from a real-world culture: the Imperial Fists and Black Templars both draw from different aspects of the medieval Holy Roman Empire, whereas the Ultramarines come from the original Roman Empire. I've decided to start to base my own Shadow Wolves on certain aspects of Anglo-Saxon England, and so you might find details reminiscent of both medieval Germany and Scandinavia (Imperial Fists and Space Wolves in other words).

[BrightStarNova]

They are strong, loyal, honorable, brave, admirable, epic. They also are experts in marksmanship and siege warfare. Even though they prefer range they are more than awesome enough to be in melee On That.

 

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[BrightStarNova]

Seems like when I try to paint any kind other than the original Templars that painting doesn't seem great. But then again I haven't painted in 10 years.

 

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[slitth]

I am reminded of a saying.  "you admire one for their strengths, but it is their flaws that make you love them." Or something wise like that.

Anyway I always feel that is the flaws that give someone a well defined character.

I am curious to know it there is any flaw from the Imperial Fists that resonates with you and make you chose them?

[BrightStarNova]

Well They Are Stubborn And Willful, Refusing To Retreat. Even when it would benefit them.

 

I like that aspect about them.

 

The only aspect about them I don't like is that they don't spit acid or hibernate like other marines.

 

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[Canadian_F_H]

To me it was always their obstinance and stubborness. The dark side of stoicism and tenacity. To seize a breach in the enemy line, or hold a redoubt against all odds... perhaps their lives might have been better spent elsewhere. Usually they knew better and saw the long game of the battle, but sometimes out of pride, they simply had to beat an enemy right there, right then.

 

At least that's how I see them (this is for all sons of dorn, IF or BT chapters both.

[BrightStarNova]

I love that paint scheme with the blue and white. Another idea was Imperial Fists Yellow, but with a red Chevron badge as an idea.

 

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[Doctor Perils]

I love that paint scheme with the blue and white. Another idea was Imperial Fists Yellow, but with a red Chevron badge as an idea.

 

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Chevrons are already quite common as (one) Symbol for Devastators, but there might be some way of making it work correctly :)

 

If you love the paint scheme Lysimachus proposed, that's awesome :)

[Warsmith Uveron]

I love that paint scheme with the blue and white. Another idea was Imperial Fists Yellow, but with a red Chevron badge as an idea.

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Chevrons are already quite common as (one) Symbol for Devastators, but there might be some way of making it work correctly

If you love the paint scheme Lysimachus proposed, that's awesome

You could always tie the symbol for devs in to the background, linked to the first members or slight non-codex setup

[BrightStarNova]

I tried a different method of painting while experimenting. The yellow paint scheme actually was good or better than the blue version. But I didn't try the blue paint with the same method.

 

But Painting the Chevron  or a fist either way is tough.

 

Seems like White primer is almost always the best.

 

Also, Apparently Rubbing Alcohol is infinitely better than Simple Green and 409 put together, for removing paint.

 

Not sure if I want to go with the yellow or the blue. But both are great. Not bragging or complaining On That.

 

 

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[Doctor Perils]

I tried a different method of painting while experimenting. The yellow paint scheme actually was good or better than the blue version. But I didn't try the blue paint with the same method.

 

But Painting the Chevron  or a fist either way is tough.

 

Seems like White primer is almost always the best.

 

Also, Apparently Rubbing Alcohol is infinitely better than Simple Green and 409 put together, for removing paint.

 

Not sure if I want to go with the yellow or the blue. But both are great. Not bragging or complaining On That.

 

 

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Well if you feel confortable with the yellow, you would probably be confortable with the blue. And in that case, how about a bit of a challenge by trying a halved or quatered scheme?

[BrightStarNova]

Also a good idea.  We should probably concentrate more on the fluff lore next since the color scheme would likely be that like in the picture or a style similar to the fists.

 

Basically:

They are 7th Founding

They Are Imperial Fist Descendants.

 

Was leaning towards the Templar rules because getting into close combat is really fun.

 

But also towards the fists with their Siege Master styles, as that can also be fun shooting away an opponent before he has a chance to get near to you On That.*