Apostle of the 30th Host Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I have been looking into fielding Lorgar Transfigured to expand my current Word Bearers 2000 Point list but am having a bit of trouble with his Psychic Powers... There are just SO many good powers to choose from!!! And I can only pick 3... I narrowed it down to a list of the powers I like from the Disciplines he can choose from and have been trying to work out combos for each. Any advice would be very much appreciated here. Thanks! My list of powers I would consider useful - opinions would be great! Divination: - Prescience - Forewarning - Foreboding - Perfect Timing - Precognition - Misfortune (not an auto take, but in the right unit I would take it) Telekinesis: - Levitation - Objuration Mechanicum Daemonology: - Cursed Earth - Sacrifice I picked these two as with Lorgar casting on a 3+, and both powers 1 Warp Charge, I would be prepared to use only 1 Dice (Maybe 2 for cursed earth if it's important I get it off) to cast these for no risk to Lorgar - and if the opponent wants to use all his charges to Deny (as there is no modifiers as these powers don't target his troops) then I don't even care as I only used one dice and will still have loads left! Current combos with units in my 2000 Point army: I have identified 3 key units Lorgar could join in my 2000 Points force and what powers I would select for each and why - let me know if I have made good choices of powers for the units they will be used in, or what you would use instead. Option 1 (My current favourite): Lorgar joins my Praetor (Cataphractii Armour, Combi-Plasma, Master-Crafted Paragon Blade, Digital Lasers and Burning Lore: Telepathy) and Terminators (Cataphractii Armour, Plasma Blaster, 4 Combi-Plasmas, 3 Lightning Claws, 2 Chainfists, Dark Channelling). - Levitation Ordinarily these would be walking up the board so Levitation gives them serious mobility! Having Slow and Purposeful also means that their shooting is not affected at all by counting as moving via Levitation. - Precognition This unit will see combat and this power will make Lorgar a much stronger fighter! - Objuration Mechanicum Was a bit stuck on the final power, but decided that this one might be a good choice as Gets Hot on a Unit's shooting might discourage it from targeting this unit as they close in or with Overwatch, or if they do, killing off a few. Furthermore, Haywire could damage a few Vehicles or Walkers that could threaten this unit. Synergy with the unit: - A Dark Channelling result of Zealot (Praetor and Lorgar can make use of this too as even tough they don't gain the rule with Dark Channelling, the rule is conferred via joining the unit) or +1 Strength would be great. - Burning Lore: Telepathy. If either Shrouded or Invisibility is rolled, these guys get even more powerful. Either levitating from cover to cover with Shrouded or just straight forward with Invisibility. This will make it even harder for the enemy to harm them. Option 2: Lorgar joins my Chaplain (Artificer Armour, Combi-Plasma, Tainted Weapon, Power Maul, Refractor Field and Burning Lore: Biomancy) and Veteran Squad (Artificer Armour, 2 Plasma Guns, Combi-Plasma, Power Sword, Vexilla). - Prescience Makes a shooty unit even better a shooting! Increases success with Sniper Veteran Tactic. - Forewarning 4+ Inv will hopefully stop them dying! - Perfect Timing Ignores Cover 'Sniper' Bolters and Plasma Guns! Synergy with the unit: - Burning Lore: Biomancy. Several powers could significantly benefit here. Either of the shooting ones will gain Ignores Cover and re-rolls to hit. Whilst Endurance will give the unit relentless and 4+ FNP on top of their Inv!! Option 3: Lorgar joins my Diabolist (Artificer Armour, Combi-Melta, Power Axe, Burning Lore: Biomancy) and Gal Vorbak (Artificer Armour and Power Fist). - Levitation Same as with Terminator Squad. - Precognition Same as with Terminator Squad. - Cursed Earth Improves Inv to 4+. Lorgar will be part of an additional 1000 point expansion on my 2000 point list (bringing it to 3000). If the remaining 550 points are spent on Daemons, they can Deep Strike without Scattering near the Gal Vorbak to assist in combat. Synergy with the Unit: - Burning Lore: Biomancy. Endurance can give them a 4+ FNP on top of improved Inv. Option 4: Your Choice!!! I have 550 points left to make up my 1000 Points add on. If there is anything from the Legiones Astartes Army List you think could work well with Lorgar let me know!!! I'm currently thinking: Tactical Support Squad (10) with Volkite Calivers - Prescience Helps them get even better at shooting! - Forewarning 4+ Inv. - Foreboding (Full BS Overwatch!!) or Misfortune (Rending Volkite Calivers!!!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Just get powers that give him Re-rolls or buff their saves. He already has Zealot so you've got hatred when you charge but having re-roll to saves makes the unit frustratingly tough. The best choice for him to join would be Gal Vorbak. If you ARE running Lorgar, don't waste points on a Praetor who's only real job is to be a Beatstick and Unlock RoWs with Master of the Legion, two things a Primarch already does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4438598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 No matter what, I'd select precognition every single time. It's just too good not to take. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4438599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Lorgar transfigured with re rolls to his saves is truly a fearsome opponent. He can reliably Tank with ease for any squad he joins. Levitation is also great for moving scary units around without the need for expensive transports. I'd attach him to Gal Vorbak :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4439187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apostle of the 30th Host Posted July 10, 2016 Author Share Posted July 10, 2016 Thank you for the replies! I'm not sure when I'll get to run Lorgar yet, but I definitely want to have a go with him, and this has definitely helped me think about what powers to select. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4439459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zujara Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I've always run Lorgar with Gal Vorbak. My power picks for him are usually: Precognition: Always take this, he gets so tanky it is ridiculous and it helps him get some extra wounds through in combat Cursed Earth: Buffs Gal Vorbak saves as well as allied and dark channeling daemons, and can let you deep strike in allied daemons accurately. In bigger games, you could run Zardu Layak and try to generate this power since he is a Daemon and won't worry about Perils from doubles. As you mentioned, use just 1 dice unless it seems vital you get it off. 3rd power is more decided by what I feel I need, I tend to like Levitation since I can still move around quick if my Spartan dies early on. Forewarning and Prescience can buff a nearby unit . Forewarning can be good over Cursed Earth if you have no allied daemons. Misfortune could be good if you have a high number of shots, and hilarious if you have a 10 man volkite squad (especially culverin). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4439576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimm Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 As others have said I tens to usually put lorgar with 5-10 galvorbak and as such usually go with Precog - no.1 by a long way Forwarning - multipurpose, use on his unit or throw it at a nearby flyer, spartan or whatever. Levitate - brilliant for turn 1 movement if on foot and the last turn push if he's not in combat My fav for more fluffy looks cool unit is to run lorgar with layak and the blade slaves. Less bodies but it's pretty dirty Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4439882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Lorgar can only pick powers from Divination and Telekinesis, no auto selecting Cursed Earth shenanigans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4440128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apostle of the 30th Host Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 Lorgar can only pick powers from Divination and Telekinesis, no auto selecting Cursed Earth shenanigans. Are you saying he can't take Daemonology at all? Or that he can only pick powers from Divination and Telekinesis, but has to randomly generate Daemonology powers? Because Lorgar Transfigured can use the Malefic Daemonology Discipline (HH Book 5 - p.160 - 'Psychic Powers in the Age of Darkness'). If, however, you're saying that whilst he can generate powers from Malefic Daemonology, Divination and Telekinesis Disciplines, he can only choose powers (not randomly roll) those chosen from the latter two, then that is a very interesting interpretation actually. Looking at the Lorgar Transfigured rule, it states: '...is a Level 3 Psyker who may select...three powers in any combination from the Divination and Telekinesis Disciplines'. Whilst p.160 gives Lorgar Transfigured access to malefic Daemonology, nowhere does it state that he can also pick these powers. So perhaps you have a point... +++ Forget that last part +++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4440155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 You can play it however you want, but know that it will be a house rule. He can take Malific Daemonology, but the rules are unequivocal about which disciplines he gets to choose. So daemonology would be randomized. If it was an issue of the old book not mentioning those powers because they didn't exist at the time, they would have updated his rules in book 5 and/or the Legion book, both of which were published afterwards. It certainly could be another Forge World Oversight , but there is no ambiguity in the language itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4440162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 It's correct, he can't select Daemonology powers but merely roll for them. Still powerful having the pick from Divination and Telekinesis. Very powerful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4440194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apostle of the 30th Host Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 You can play it however you want, but know that it will be a house rule. He can take Malific Daemonology, but the rules are unequivocal about which disciplines he gets to choose. So daemonology would be randomized. If it was an issue of the old book not mentioning those powers because they didn't exist at the time, they would have updated his rules in book 5 and/or the Legion book, both of which were published afterwards. It certainly could be another Forge World Oversight , but there is no ambiguity in the language itself. Of course, you are quite correct, I'm sorry for questioning that (and I am not questioning the current wording at all - it clearly only states that powers from Divination and Telekinesis can be chosen, and so Malefic powers can't by omission). I had always just assumed it was an oversight on Forge World's part, as they never actually said how it was meant to interact with Lorgar Transfigured's rules; they just copied the rules into book 5 without accounting for the change (as has been done several times) and then just popped that little bit in about Malefic Daemonology in case anyone asked. Cheers for your input there too Ishagu. But no, I would want to do it right, and knowing that he can't do that currently has saved me cheating ha! As we might agree it could be an oversight though, I might just drop them an email, purely out of interest as to how they intended it to work. Thanks for pointing that out though, it has definitely made my choices of powers smaller (although maybe not easier). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4440210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I don't believe it's an oversight. Prior to the latest books he could only choose from 2 disciplines, one of which was Telepathy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4440250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Chaos is not easily tamed. One would not simply be given full control ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4440313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 If it is an oversight, it certainly wouldn't be the first one, they overlook interactions and contradictions all the time. However, they specifically updated the disciplines he has access to in Book 5, so they were literally reading and re-writing that section of the rules when they gave him Malefic Daemonology. So if what is written is not intended, it's less an oversight and more an outright mistake. I'm trying to think about it from a fluff point of view, and frankly that's a tough one too. Yes, Lorgar is the Chosen of Chaos, or whatever, but the Burning Lore he was gifted with that he passed on to his sons doesn't seem to be Malefic Daemonology, but related sorcerous practices that let them duplicate "traditional" psychic powers. Plus since Chaos was probably playing him the entire time, I don't know if they would give up all of their secrets either. Is there any model in 30K or 40K that can select Daemonology powers? Even the ones who have the ability to choose powers end up rolling for the Daemonology disciplines from what I can recall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4440370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zujara Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Huh, not sure how I missed that but thanks for pointing it out. In that case, in most games I would echo Jimm's list of Precognition, Forewarning and Levitate. Leave the Daemonology to Zardu Layak Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323801-selecting-lorgar-transfigureds-powers/#findComment-4440409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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