Librarian Dred vs Imperial Guard

[Rafen IX]

Morning brothers, I'm after your thoughts and opinions today.

Tomorrow I'm facing Guard the Hammer and the thought popped into my head that a drop podded Libby dred would be excellent versus practically anything they have. I expect a turtling tactic from him.

So the question I was wondering was actually which discipline to go for, Electro with its 3+ invul and haywire nova. Or Techno with its ability to make tanks go boom and up his AV. Obviously random powers so what do you guys usually run or think would be good?

R

[Charlo]

I think both of those would be pretty good disciplines.

 

There is slightly less need to go Sanguinary now there is more attacks Base and you won't really need force or quickening against guard!

[Rafen IX]

Those were my thoughts too in regards to Sanguinary, which while amazing for a dred, doesn't really lend much to anti guard.

I'm leaning towards technomancy, just hope I don't roll the power of the machine spirit one.

It's so nice dusting off the old dreds!

[CaptainHelion]

If you do roll it, just focus on throwing Subvert Machine and whatever other power you get.

[The Unseen]

Don't libby dreads have a note that they can only ever roll on the Sanguinary Discipline?

[Charlo]

I've seen people talk about Malefic for them so I guess not.

[Quixus]

Don't libby dreads have a note that they can only ever roll on the Sanguinary Discipline?

Not in my codex.

Librarian Dreadnoughts generate their powers from the Sanguinary, Biomancy, Daemonology, Divination and Pyromancy disciplines.

 

 

There is the issue whether the new disciplines form AoD are available, but it is definitely more than just Sanguinary.

[The Unseen]

They do not, neat. I was thinking of a previous edition probably, or the fact that if they're the warlord they can only have BA traits. So go nuts I guess. Also,

 

I've seen people talk about Malefic for them so I guess not.

HERESY!

[Charlo]

There is absolutely no discussion to be had if they hey access to the AoD powers. Says on the cards. Done!

[Rafen IX]

I think it's warlord traits your referring too. They are locked into those.

I'd rather succumb to the rage than summon deamons!

[Quixus]

There is absolutely no discussion to be had if they hey access to the AoD powers. Says on the cards. Done!

Do the cards say that the Librarian Dreadnought can take the new disciplines? I don't think so. AFAIK they only say that Blood Angels can take some of the new disciplines. So the Librarian Dreadnought is still limited to the disciplines I posted. While GW's intention is clear, they again are unable to write unambiguous rules.

 

Even if the cards said which units got which disciplines, it still isn't clear whether a supplement can actually overwrite the codex.

[Runefyre]

There is absolutely no discussion to be had if they hey access to the AoD powers. Says on the cards. Done!

Do the cards say that the Librarian Dreadnought can take the new disciplines? I don't think so. AFAIK they only say that Blood Angels can take some of the new disciplines. So the Librarian Dreadnought is still limited to the disciplines I posted. While GW's intention is clear, they again are unable to write unambiguous rules.

Even if the cards said which units got which disciplines, it still isn't clear whether a supplement can actually overwrite the codex.

um, libby dreads are part of the blood angels faction, no? The list states factions with access to the disciplines, not specific types of psykers. A librarian dreadnought is a psyker from C:BA.

If anyone tells me that a librarian ceases to be a blood angels librarian just because he's in a sarcophigus, I've got a libby dreadsock waiting hyperbole

[Quixus]

It is not a question of faction, but what the specific unit is granted. If the cards overwrite the choices for the Furioso Librarian, they should also overwrite the choices for Mephiston, removing Sanguine Sword as a mandatory (and slot taking) power.

IIRC neither the book nor the cards specify which units get access to which disciplines, so every GK unit (that has psychic powers) now can roll for shifting worldscape, it says that GK get those, right?

I don't doubt that the Librarian dreadnought should gain access to the new discipline, and I don't have any problem with someone using them, but I don't see how the rules support that claim.

[Rafen IX]

It is not a question of faction, but what the specific unit is granted. If the cards overwrite the choices for the Furioso Librarian, they should also overwrite the choices for Mephiston, removing Sanguine Sword as a mandatory (and slot taking) power.

 

IIRC neither the book nor the cards specify which units get access to which disciplines, so every GK unit (that has psychic powers) now can roll for shifting worldscape, it says that GK get those, right?  :rolleyes:

 

I don't doubt that the Librarian dreadnought should gain access to the new discipline, and I don't have any problem with someone using them, but I don't see how the rules support that claim.

I genuinely don't follow your logic, could you explain for me why it overwrites Mephistons mandatory Sanguine Sword? Would that be the same for Ezekiel then? As far as I understand units that can generate physic powers now have access to all of those listed in Angels of a death via the cards, by this logic yes GK can roll on geomancy.

I'm not trying to be dense I just can't understand the counter argument cousin.

R

[Quixus]

I cannot find the table I saw in the rumour thread and I don't have the cards. It depends on whether the cards say that the blood angels units get the new disciplines in addition to what they normally get or if they simply say they get those (and the list includes the old ones). If it is the latter the table overwrites the choices from the codex. In that choice Mephiston gets sanguine sword. If it is overwritten, he no longer gets it.

 

I don't know what special choice Ezekiel gets.

 

I'm pretty sure GW did not intend the humble strike squad to get shifting worldscape. Well at least it would make salvo weapons on PA GK a decent choice again.

[Charlo]

Completely disagree.

 

Sanguine sword is in his profile, you can't just get rid of it.

 

It lists the disciplines available from the rule book and new ones available to the faction, obviously NOT showing the faction specific ones too.

 

Anyone who would claim that sanguinary or interromancy etc are no longer options is just an ass.

[Father Mapple]

Maybe a good rule for rules discussions is people need to not say what the rules are without the published rules available? Like, people don't have to quote the rules each time, but they should be able to.

 

As to the OP, it depends on if your army has other units that will be forcing themselves up the board at the same time as the Libby dread. If it's going up with the rest of units as a counter charger, then buffs might be better for it. If it's leading am assault, sanguinary is still really good without needing just the one power from another discipline. A beam power to crack chimeras, more attacks or an invulnerable save to smash units, fear tests work well shading low leadership IG. Etc.

[Rafen IX]

Completely agree Mapple and did consider Sanguinary. The lib will be dropping in beside a Furioso or drop podded terminator assault unit (because I can do that and it might throw him off lol). The rest of the army will be mainly jump Sang G and jump DC trying to close asap. Covered by a Deimos Vindicator and Sicaran with a Storm wing flying on hopefully turn two.

I'm excited to try an alpha strike psychic phase, even to shift his target priority as much as possible onto the lib.

 

As to Cousin Quixus. I apologise I misspoke I assumed you meant GK librarians who randomly generate powers not a strike squad. I don't agree with your logic but now I understand how you got to that point and thank you for explaining. Personally Angels of Death is to supplement the codex not overwrite it in my view and I'm glad you would agree to play it like that even if you believe rules as written don't support it. Btw hope your decided chapter is BA :)

R

[Jolemai]

Guys, take this pedantry to the OR please.

[Quixus]

Nah, it's been there already.

 

@Rafen IX: yes, my chapter definitely is of Sanguinius's line, but I am bad with names and don't want the nth Blood Dragons.

[Rafen IX]

So a bit of feedback on the game. Rolled on technomancy and got warp metal armour and the d3 focussed haywire. It achieved the result of making his target priority EXPLODE. Dropped in onto a flank, where two battle cannons both rolled sixes to glance and I failed both cover saves, sigh. The guard players first and second turn were stupendously blessed by the dice. He wiped out the majority of my army by the end of turn two and it looked bleak when my stormwing formation failed to arrive on a 2+. They redeemed themselves when they arrived and silenced the guns of his wyverns and manticore. My drop podded terminators joined by the sanguinary priest after his s.gaurd unit got destroyed by those wyverns, breached the lines and luckily rolled over him. Almost called that game. In love with that storm wing formation, it feels very BA flavourful. The only downside to it is I can't put my dred in the Raven as it's technically space marine faction.

Final thoughts technomancy librarian dreds are amazing and worth trying against or with a mech list.

R

[Quixus]

Battle Brothers can embark on each other's transports:

Units from the same army that are Battle Brothers treat each other as ‘friendly units’ for all rules purposes. This means, for example, that units:
[...]
• Can embark on each other’s Transport vehicles.

 

So you could have put the dreadnought and/or a unit of marines into the raven.

 

[Charlo]

Battle Brothers can embark on each other's transports:

Units from the same army that are Battle Brothers treat each other as ‘friendly units’ for all rules purposes. This means, for example, that units:

[...]

• Can embark on each other’s Transport vehicles.

 

So you could have put the dreadnought and/or a unit of marines into the raven.

But as per the FAQ clarification, you cannot begin embarked upon an allied transport.

 

So no Skitarii drop pods, or BA in a CSM Raven.

[Morticon]

 

There is absolutely no discussion to be had if they hey access to the AoD powers. Says on the cards. Done!

Do the cards say that the Librarian Dreadnought can take the new disciplines? I don't think so. AFAIK they only say that Blood Angels can take some of the new disciplines. So the Librarian Dreadnought is still limited to the disciplines I posted. While GW's intention is clear, they again are unable to write unambiguous rules.

 

Even if the cards said which units got which disciplines, it still isn't clear whether a supplement can actually overwrite the codex.

 

 

<_< Really?

 

REALLY?! 

 

<_< 

 

The cards say theyre available to the Blood Angels faction.  The libby dread is a part of the blood angel faction.  They dont say "BA librarians" or "BA terminator librarians" or "Mephiston". 

 

Come now, Quixus. There is nothing ambiguous about this AT ALL.  

[Quixus]

There might be no doubt about GW's intentions, but the cards don't say which unit gets to choose from which group of disciplines. So, as written, either all unspecified units (that are psykers) of a faction get the disciplines denoted on the cards and that means strike squads could roll on Geokinesis or no unit actually gets the new disciplines. The rules do not support only giving new powers to certain units in a faction.

 

I'm not advocating to play that way, I am merely pointing out that once again GW proved that they cannot write unambiguous rules even if their life depended on it.