Librarian Dred vs Imperial Guard

[Indefragable]

I really like the idea of the Librarian Dreadnought. Besides the sheer crunch of it, it feels quite appropriate. Leave the Grav Centurions to the other Chapters...how do the Sons of Sanguinius deal with Wraithknights and huge-jazz creatures? With glorious melee and a huge-jazz spear!

 

 

 

...I hope against hope that a future release makes Mephy another anti-GC option. 

[Indefragable]

Ok, third response in a row from me, but bear with me here. 

 

Looking specifically in terms of a Librarian Dreadnought, here's how I would consider the NEW SM psyker powers:

 

Fulmination:

Primaris: Electrosurge. WC1 18" S6 AP4 Assault 6. Great for clearing hordes, something the tarpit-prone Libby dread could be vulnerable to

1. Electroshield: WC1 3++. MONEY

2. Electropulse: WC1 9" Nova Assault 1 S1 AP- Haywire. Not bad for a regular drop pod against a mech list. Not bad for making sure an enemy super heavy DIES (haywire Nova + S10 AP2 melee)

3. Lighnting Arc: WC2 S5 AP4 Assault D6, jumps to another enemy unit in 6" on a 4+. Another anti-tarpit option.

4. Fists of Lightning. +1S +1A. For every hit the psyker lands in combat, the enemy takes 2x S5 AP- hits. Deceptively good. 

5. Magnetokinesis: 18" Wings of Sanguinius. Use the same way. Solid B-

6. Electrodisplacement: WC2 the NASTY one right here...the whole tag-team switcheroo. This right here on a Libby dread gets him wherever you want him (or don't want him). 

 

Verdict: Solid. There are really no BAD options for a Libby dread with this one, especially since most of them directly enhance what you want him to do or shore up a weakness (anti-horde/tarpit)

 

LIbrarius

Primaris: The Emperor's Wrath: WC1 18" S5 AP3 Assault 1 Blast WItchfire. Not bad for bombing some MEQ out of a drop pod

1. Veil of Time: WC2 re-roll failed saves. Interesting on a vehicle....makes any scrap of cover that much better. And with Magna Grapples....(Move Through Cover)....

2. Fury of the Ancients: meh

3. Psychic Fortress: WC1. Fearless, Adamantium Will, and 4++ against enemy witchfires. This is how you go toe-to-toe against Demon Princes

4. Might of Heroes: WC1: +2S, T, I, A. Good for half of those. Not bad, but better used on a regular Libby

5. Psychic Scourge: WC1 Malediction. Roll off against and enemy psyker. You roll 2D6 + caster's ML. Opponent rolls D6 + target's ML. If results are >= enemy takes a wound with no saves. If you roll better by 3 or more, enemy caster takes a wound AND forgets a random power. This right here is one of the best powers in the game. I used this a few games ago against a ML4 Demon Prince of Tzeentch with a re-rollable 2++ and this is how I put damage on him. It is the Psychic Shriek of anti-psykers.

6. Null Zone: WC2 Malediction 24". Drops an enemy's invulnerable save by 2. Again, another AMAZING one that has quite a few uses against heavy hitters and some lists

 

Verdict: if you are fighting psykers or Demons, this table is NASTY. Otherwise it's a B

 

<will add more when i have more time than a lunch break>

[Red-beard]

Lucius droppods can grant shrouded to more than just the unit embarked on the pod. You can embark one Libby dread in the pod and then, on the same turn, drop a second dread from a regular pod behind the Lucius pod. The 2nd dread hiding behind the Lucius pod will have a 3+ cover save the turn it arrives (5+ for the intervening model and then 3+ from the shrouding). This tactic works for any droppod unit, not just dreads. 

[Blood & Thunder]

Remember, the Libby dread does not get the magna grapple..... it's rather sad really

[DarkAngeal]

So what would you folks think of running 2 librarian dreadnoughts in tandem as the HQ slots for a Baal strike force?

I am thinking 2ML2 both with heavy framers in drop pods. One can roll technomancy, hopefully to heal and mess up enemy vehicles, the other can roll Sanguinary or Fulmination for some solid offensive powers. A few drop pods full of tacticals and assault marines would shore up the list, and maybe some death company in a storm raven?

Point being: can 2 librarian dreadnoughts be run, and which powers should they use?

[Charlo]

Can totally work. Just drop them with more threats too.

[Rafen IX]

Sounds like a strong combo, if I had two I'd definitely try it. Presently my Libby dred runs best as support role or as biggest threat priority as now there is nothing he cannot threaten except possibly very fast moving units.

I just had a moment of absolute horror regarding the Lucius drop pod. My main opponent (a tyranid player) can drop a haywire template on it and deal d3 haywire hits to the dred inside... Ouch!

[Rafen IX]

So what would you folks think of running 2 librarian dreadnoughts in tandem as the HQ slots for a Baal strike force?

I am thinking 2ML2 both with heavy framers in drop pods. One can roll technomancy, hopefully to heal and mess up enemy vehicles, the other can roll Sanguinary or Fulmination for some solid offensive powers. A few drop pods full of tacticals and assault marines would shore up the list, and maybe some death company in a storm raven?

Point being: can 2 librarian dreadnoughts be run, and which powers should they use?

In answer to your question, technomancy on one definitely the other should be either Sanguinary or Fulmination they are nearly tailor made for us, minus the switcheroo power which cannot be used on vehicles.

[Charlo]

I'll run two next game. I have them and thus far haven't managed to go double Libby yet!

 

Or use any new disciplines, double technomancy could support eachother pretty well!

[Rafen IX]

Hmm some of the offensive technomancy require the opponent to field vehicles which might not be the case. Why I love rolling the powers when you roll up :)

[Charlo]

Aye, I'll roll on the discipline that suits it best.

 

May not be for a few weeks though :o

[RedemptionNL]

Sounds like a strong combo, if I had two I'd definitely try it. Presently my Libby dred runs best as support role or as biggest threat priority as now there is nothing he cannot threaten except possibly very fast moving units.

I just had a moment of absolute horror regarding the Lucius drop pod. My main opponent (a tyranid player) can drop a haywire template on it and deal d3 haywire hits to the dred inside... Ouch!

The No Escape rule only gives hits based on the weapon's Strenght and AP. Any special rules (like Haywire) don't count.

[LutherMax]

 

Sounds like a strong combo, if I had two I'd definitely try it. Presently my Libby dred runs best as support role or as biggest threat priority as now there is nothing he cannot threaten except possibly very fast moving units.I just had a moment of absolute horror regarding the Lucius drop pod. My main opponent (a tyranid player) can drop a haywire template on it and deal d3 haywire hits to the dred inside... Ouch!

The No Escape rule only gives hits based on the weapon's Strenght and AP. Any special rules (like Haywire) don't count.

That's quite rare for a specific weapon isn't it? Usually only the case for explosions.

[RedemptionNL]

It's in the Template / No Escape rule:

If a Template weapon hits a building’s Fire Point or an Open-topped vehicle and there is a unit embarked inside that building or vehicle, then in addition to any other effects that unit suffers D6 hits, resolved at the Strength and AP of the weapon. These hits are Randomly Allocated.

It just says the unit suffers D6 hits at the Strength and AP of the weapon. Nothing gives you permission to use the weapon's other rules.

 

Edit: That's also why Gw Errata'd the Eldar's D-Scythe specifically for the No Escape rule, as it's Distort Scythe rule didn't count that would technically make it a full Destroyer weapon (instead of the -1 on the chart) for the embarked unit.

[LutherMax]

It's in the Template / No Escape rule:

If a Template weapon hits a building’s Fire Point or an Open-topped vehicle and there is a unit embarked inside that building or vehicle, then in addition to any other effects that unit suffers D6 hits, resolved at the Strength and AP of the weapon. These hits are Randomly Allocated.

It just says the unit suffers D6 hits at the Strength and AP of the weapon. Nothing gives you permission to use the weapon's other rules.Edit: That's also why Gw Errata'd the Eldar's D-Scythe specifically for the No Escape rule, as it's Distort Scythe rule didn't count that would technically make it a full Destroyer weapon (instead of the -1 on the chart) for the embarked unit.

Interesting... Do you what is meant by "in addition to any other effects" though?

[Charlo]

I'd imagine the effects of hitting the vehicle with that weapon, so they could stun the occupants or something.

[RedemptionNL]

What Charlo said. And of course, the effect of the template weapon hitting the vehicle/building itself.

[LutherMax]

Got it - thanks! Never come across it myself but good to know!

[Rafen IX]

Hmm see to me that's ambiguous enough that I could understand if my opponent wanted to argue that the any other effects was the haywire rule, and maybe dice for it.

Although I am with you on the interpretation.