Talon of Horus 2.......?

[hummus]

Whens it out? Whens it out?

[1000 Sons]

Brothers of the Ezikarian. Then maybe a step bellow are the Sons of the Ezekarion.

[Sception]

1ksons outside of 1ksons has long been established fluff - exiled psykers who were part of or sympathetic to ahriman's coven banished from magnus's legion, selling their services, and those of their rubric bodyguards, to warlords of other chaos subfactions while looking for ways to advance their own personal ambitions.  It is and always has been the justification for rubric cult units in anything other than a pure thousand sons army, since unlike with berzerkers, noise marines, or plague marines, there are no rubric marines which were not originally thousand sons legionnaires.

[TheDarkApostle]

 

 

 

Suggestions welcome!

 

Why do they need such titles as Sorcerer or Officer in there? Isn't "Member of the Ezekarion" or "Founding member of the Ezekarion" enough? I bet stating that you're part of the Ezekarion would make any lesser lord or sorcerer soil their armour anyway...

 

 

Yeah, I've been bouncing between "Member" and "Officer" as the generic descriptors. 

 

Ezekarionite.

 

Ezekarion being the movement.

 

-ite being the suffix denoting someone to be a follower or adherents of that movement.

 

Suffix

-ite

 

1. (sometimes pejorative) Used to form nouns denoting followers or adherents of a specified person, idea, doctrine, movement, etc.

[Excessus]

It's not a movement though, it's a fixed group of people...like the british rebels and their "founding fathers". :P

[Xin Ceithan]

Pretty hyped for this. Talon basically sunk our Black Crusade RPG Campaign and restarted it as a Legion Wars thing in Eyespace. After Talon 2 (can we please keep calling it The Revengening :). ) I can see half my gaming group taking up The Black....

 

Regarding the Officer / Frater thing ... Maybe it could be just a pre- or Suffix ? Like the Japanese -san /- sama / -chan? You did a great job on the Nostramian in the NL books. The Nlack Legion could use sonething from Cthonia or to show their more diverse roots from Prospero or the WE Nagrakhali (sp?). You have a founding World Eater established already - they are probably not very formal in the Gladiator pits when yelling at each other. Something practical and yet quite snappy, I'd imagine.

And the Abbadon in Talon strikes me as someone open enough to use something that already works while shrewd enough to use it in building a common sense of fraternity among his new Legion. Using a battlelanguage from the WE could also show how he is picking the best of the shattered traitors and that he is not looking to rebuilt the Luna Wolves under new Management.

[Trevak Dal]

It's not a movement though, it's a fixed group of people...like the british rebels and their "founding fathers". :P

Mmm hmm, Tax dodgers united.

[KrautScientist]

How about Oath-Brothers or Bloodsworn? Or First Blades of the Ezekharion?

 

The title could also refer to the eight-pointed star in some way -- arrows of the Ezekharion? Or points? I kinda like the idea, but I obviously lack the linguistic aptitude to make it sound cool ;)

 

It goes without saying that I am really, really looking forward to the next book in the series! The first one was excellent and had lots of stuff for every fan of the Traitor Legions! And Lheor was just so cool that I had to build a model of him ;)

[Stormborn]

Oathsworn is a bit to Viking, first blades is a bit to knightly. Not sure about bloodsworn makes it seem a bit to general I can see someone saying that to standard troopers en masse (go forth my bloodsworn and let the galaxy burn) but not something that gets said leaders they should be above swearing blind allegiance all a bit totalitarian in some respects which would be more appropriate for loyalists.

 

I don't know much about culture of Cthonia, apart from gangs and the only title I came up with was jefe from that, anyway I like the idea of not using titles like sorcerer and officer and just call them Ezikarian, Horus had his Mournival so it kinda fits that Abby might do something similar.   also adding a rank or function prior to Ezikarian seems a bit clunky when you can convey the same purpose with a single word. 

Edited July 12, 2016 by Stormborn

[Dagoth Ur]

if I may throw my hat into the ring, I'd propose a shortened variation of Ezekarion. The reason for this being that the Ezekarion is the term for Abby's "mournival", and a shortened form could very well serve as a cthonian title. Ezekarion, to me, sounds already like some kind of conglomeration or circle, less like an individual, which it is I suppose.

I'd go with something like Ezekar or Ezekir. It is short and functions almost like another name, a name given by Abbadon as a sign of respect and brotherhood.

Ezekar Khayon also sounds more eloquent and imposing than Ezekarion Khayon or Khayon, Member of the Ezekarion, which, to me, sounds rather clunky. I would forgo anything in terms of "real-life" titles, or titles that could technically be encountered in our world. I'd advocate for taking a newly invented word, something cthonian, as it would make it much closer and personal to this universe than a simple Lord, Member or Oathsworn could.

 

Just my two cents, but I am sure that our Lord ADB, hallowed be thy work, will create something that will be just as amazing as the stuff before! :)

[Soldier of Dorn]

Obviously, I'm just a random mook on the Internet and there's no reason for A D-B to pay much heed to my suggestion, but I personally don't think specific titles should exist signifying membership of the Ezekarion. They're all great champions in their own right, with many titles already to their name, each a mark of glory and power in its own right, but membership of the Ezekarion is something so far above that, right? They're the inner circle of the Black Legion, the closest brothers of Abbadon himself, an extension of his own will, the ones he trusts enough to permit using his own name. They're not members of the most exclusive club in the Eye, it's not just another title to add to the list, they are the Ezekarion, they form it, and that carries *weight* in the Eye. Hushed whispers should be spoken of "Khayon of the Ezekarion" or "Firefist, of the Ezekarion" and the same should be reflected in the Dramatis Personae.

 

ISKANDAR KHAYON, of the Ezekarion. Black Legion warlord, born of Prospero. Master of the Ashen Dead.

 

Alternatively, "He of the Ezekarion" might also work. Just a thought, though.

Edited July 13, 2016 by The Psycho

[A D-B]

Obviously, I'm just a random mook on the Internet and there's no reason for A D-B to pay much heed to my suggestion, but I personally don't think specific titles should exist signifying membership of the Ezekarion. They're all great champions in their own right, with many titles already to their name, each a mark of glory and power in its own right, but membership of the Ezekarion is something so far above that, right? They're the inner circle of the Black Legion, the closest brothers of Abbadon himself, an extension of his own will, the ones he trusts enough to permit using his own name. They're not members of the most exclusive club in the Eye, it's not just another title to add to the list, they are the Ezekarion, they form it, and that carries *weight* in the Eye. Hushed whispers should be spoken of "Khayon of the Ezekarion" or "Firefist, of the Ezekarion" and the same should be reflected in the Dramatis Personae.

 

ISKANDAR KHAYON, of the Ezekarion. Black Legion warlord, born of Prospero. Master of the Ashen Dead.

 

Alternatively, "He of the Ezekarion" might also work. Just a thought, though.

 

...and...

 

I don't know much about culture of Cthonia, apart from gangs and the only title I came up with was jefe from that, anyway I like the idea of not using titles like sorcerer and officer and just call them Ezikarian, Horus had his Mournival so it kinda fits that Abby might do something similar.   also adding a rank or function prior to Ezikarian seems a bit clunky when you can convey the same purpose with a single word. 

 

...and many others; I agree, yep.

 

A chunk of my problem is that it's an awkward mix of in-universe and out of character references in the list so far. A lot of the info in the dramatis paersonae isn't necessarily stuff that'd be said in-universe, but functions as a convenient reader summary. As an example, slaves and thralls and various creatures will back away from the Black Legion's founders, hissing and whispering "Ezekarion..." as they realise who just showed up. But for the purposes of reader reference, these things tend to be a bit more formal and flat: "Member of the X, Dude of the Y, Dudette of the Z."

 

I used a standard template (no pun intended) in the first book after reading a bunch of others in other novels, and was going to use the same style/template again for the rest of the series, but I didn't like it much back then and I like it even less now, for the reasons we're all picking at. And on a personal note, I dislike "caution" in stuff like this. Information is key and you should always be trying to get your point across, but not by sacrificing the chance to do something original or evocative. 

 

I like The Psycho's angle, and may just hone it down to essentially in-universe stuff.  

 

Thanks, gang. Very much appreciated!

Edited July 13, 2016 by A D-B

[Xin Ceithan]

I feel the need to make some pun on how ADB "likes the Psycho angle" :p

 

...

 

I'll settle for this: The Imperium is so screwed!

[Soldier of Dorn]

I like The Psycho's angle, and may just hone it down to essentially in-universe stuff. 

 

http://i.imgur.com/11Lrrye.gif

http://orig13.deviantart.net/541c/f/2015/069/1/9/fangirling_intensifies_by_karlie625-d8l80ye.png

 

This is an awesome thing to log on to see. Wow. I'm pretty much speechless right now (and dancing in joy, but that's besides the point) and very nearly memeless too, save for those two.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

 

Bit surprised by the title of 'officer' of the Ezekarion. Kind of expected something more like 'brother'. Or 'buddy'. 'Abaddon and the First-Name-Terms Gang'.

 

I concur. "Brother" is too informal and "Frater" is too Loyalist-ish, but I'm still holding out for something cooler and more appropriate to strike my brainjunk in the throes of the wordstorm.

 

Suggestions welcome!

 

 

 

 

Only thing I could maybe think of is something along the line of Argel Tal Possessed Company (had the wrist flamer weapons) in the Horus Heresy Betrayer novel.  Might be wrong, but it was meant as a name for all those Battle Brother/broken company.  Just mean how cool the name for them came across.

​Something like that, just help show that they where the first battle brother/sort of inner circle that led onto what the Black Legion are today with his chosen.  Maybe have a look though different era of military history for title's?

 

Ether way, as said I'm looking forward to this novel   First Talons of Horus novel help toward me getting Black Legion back on the go & mark 20 year collecting with Chaos & the hobby.  While the Wolves novel on Ragnar help get me back to a long over due update to my Great Company of Space Wolves.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Insane Psychopath

[Soldier of Dorn]

In case anyone hasn't seen it, A D-B posted this on his FB about 5 hours ago.

 

http://i.imgur.com/V10Sy8w.jpg

 

"Hey, I remember that guy." -- A D-B

 

https://www.facebook.com/aarondembskibowden/photos/a.261981050530460.61818.225662387495660/1197686673626555/?type=3&theater

 

And now, let the hype begin.

[helterskelter]

Wait.... he's in the wrong legion?

[Celtic_cauldron]

Apparently Captain Delvarus decided to leave the World Eaters to join the Despoiler...

 

How interesting!

 

Celtic_Cauldron

[Khornestar]

Delvarus! He survived this long! That is so cool.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Massively looking forward to this. ADB has a way of...elevating the 40K material to realms I would never have believed it would function on. Don't get me wrong; I'm a huge fan of the pulpy, bolter-porn, grim-dark hyperbole as anyone else, but books like The Talon of Horus, Aurellian, Betrayer...they make the universe and its characters something more; there's a wilflly subversive quality to them, in which they take established history and lend it subtly different emphases, making the villains not quite so villainous as they might be generally painted, the heroes not quite so heroic as their own self-authored legends claim...I particularly loved the relatonships between Khayon and his entourage in the last book; his genuine, emotional attachment to his pet Dark Eldar and daemonic familiar. Abaddon himself was the biggest surprise; I like him far better as the faintly laconic sage that ADB paints him as than the red-handed nemesis of all that is good he generally comes off as in the background books.

 

ADB is a thoroughbred in a stable of pit-ponies.

[Celtic_cauldron]

I agree. Hope he does remain the same old dirty bastard he is in Betrayer.

 

Celtic_Cauldron

[Noctus Cornix]

Suggestions welcome!

A bit late to the party, but why not Bloodkin?

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

'Bound to'?

 

As in, Sorceror McMagicFace, Bound to the Ezekarion?

[Wayniac]

I cannot wait for the next book in this series.  I devoured Talon of Horus, I still turn to passages of it for inspiration (mainly the "You want to start a new Legion" part and the end with "After ten thousand years of banishment in the underworld, His fallen angels are coming home".  I get chills up in my spine reading this book, and want more.  I want to see a few things explained more, hopefully:

 

1) What, exactly, is the "Ezekarion"? From reading, it sounds like the Black Legion's version of the Mournival i.e. Abaddon's closest confidants, maybe some sort of Warrior Lodge like the legion of old?

2) What specifically is meant by the fact that Abaddon wants to form the Black Legion "not for revenge" but to take back what is theirs? The impression of Abaddon in 40k is basically a genocidal megalomaniac dictator who wants to obliterate the Imperium and urinate on its ashes, but the Abaddon in Talon seems to want a war of conquest to retake what he sees as the birthright of the Legion? I mean, his goal in Talon seems almost noble from the impression I got, that he sees the Imperium as a mockery of the glory of old during the time of the Legions, but in the other 40k fluff it seems to be purely wanting to destroy for destruction's sake.

[the jeske]

Now I do not know how this works in the west, as I have 0 knowladge about insider working for militery clubs etc, but here the problem with the "of the, of the etc" and how do mooks call people is solved this way. People have names, honorifics , nick names and "gained" names[hard to translate by I will explain all]. All 4 are used at the same time, but there are rules for it [very strickt] of when and how those are used.

If someone is higher standing [by a lot] you generaly use their honorfic and their name. People of the same rank[and inside families] offten use nick names, because we have a lot of people with identical/indentical sounding names. If someone outside uses them it is an insult, if someone of lower rank uses them, they are in big trouble. Honorfics are always used in official talk, but if they are used among friends/family/same rank people they are a veiled[or not depends on the tone] insult. Gained names are something special, few people have them, and in general they replace someones all other names[like Stalin for example], and it is used always to described the person, but almost never when you talk to the person. It is a sign of big respect, on the other hand being allowed to call someone by their "gained" name idicates an above family level of familiarity.

 

To bring this in to chaos perspective[considering the "chaos" sociaty is very hierarchical etc].

A cultist of some rank could call a chaos lord this way

-when talking to him lord X of Z, of Y[full title]

-when talking about him when the lord is just a"lord" he would call him lord X. when the lord has a given name[like The Butcher] he would call him only that, When the cultists talks about abadon and calls him the world breaker, then it shows his devotion to him.

 

If two marines call each other brother, it simple. If two marines call each other by their rank, they probably are insulting each other. If two lords of some status call each other by gained name, then it is either politics or they are realy close. If only one does it, then it points at a difference in ranks, and it goes both ways. If a lower ranking dude is allowed to call someone by his gained name in public this means a close relation, if the higher status dude does it then he is showing favor to someone[like a favored navigator/slave etc].

 

This is of course a simplified version of a naming/interaction system, because it works only with 1 group. Because the system becomes much more complicated when there are more ranks, and 2-3 paralel organisation[for example how should a prior of a monastery call a mid-high local ranking official in a private seting, when there are offcials of much higher rank present at the meeting etc].

 

 

Or to make it realy short. Naming conventions within some sociaties, even those very hierachical, are very dynamic and multi layered. And there is no way people would always call each other by their full title, outside of maybe not wanting to start an outright war between two countries.