Brofist Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 First reports are coming in. It's a mixed bag. Some really good changes and buffs to under-performers, but also some head scratchers and disappointments. Keeping this list pretty sanitized so people can just talk over the changes and see what's affected in their lists: Primus Medicae -10 points increase -Can't take most one handed specialist weapons, or lightning claws Chaplain -Causes fear Command Squad -Slight points decrease -Cost less per model Apothecaries -Can ride and join bikes -List removed. They can join any unit with the Astartes rule that isn't in terminator armour Tech Marines -10 points drop -Servo automata have new weapon options including missiles and muilti meltas Veteran Squads (Major Changes) -25 points drop -Cost less per model -Any model can take combi-weapons -Old veteran rules are gone, choice of 5 new rules. Stubborn, Increase to WS, Increase to armour penetration rolls, sniper + outflank, re-rolls against MCs Tacticool Squads -25 points drop Assault Marines -75 points drop -Cost less per model Breachers -25 points drop -Cost 50% more per model -No changes to special rules Tactical Support Squads -Can take combat blades -Rotor cannons and volkite upgrades are free swaps Seekers -20 points drop -Cost more per model Recon Squads -25 points drop Dreadnaught Drop Pods -Large points increase Dreadclaws -Slight points increase -Internal guidance -Can carry all dreadnoughts except deredeo and leviathan Landspeeders -Slight points drop -Can take two hunter killer missiles -Hunter killers cost less Javelin Attack Speeder -20 point drop -New special rules -Hunter killers cost less Lightnings -Sunfry and Krakens cost even more points -Bombs cost less Tarantulas -Cannot forward deploy New Jetbikes -Regular jetbikes with multi meltas -Cost 30 points more than a regular squad Command Tank Special Rule -Is finally back for vehicle squadrons -Grants tank hunter and monster hunter against targets within an area of effect -Affects all instances of command tank special rules for squadrons -Ignore crew shaken as before Predator Tank Squadron -Executioner is 20 points more expensive, boo -HCB slight points drop Sicaran Battle Tank -30 point increase Sicaran Venator -Can take an extra pintile weapon? Land Raider Sduadrons -Phobos 25 points drop -Proteus 20 points drop -Achilles has access to all thudd gun shells, but must pay for them -Proteus can take a twin linked lascannon Deredeo -New weapon option. Heavy Lascannon battery. Costs more than the plasma guns, same range, only two shots, but you have a 50% chance to get extra pens for each pen you inflict. Spartans -Ten points more expensive -Flare shield significantly more expensive -Laser destroyers are a free upgrade Malcador -25 point drop -Is now heavy support -Can be taken in squadrons of 3 Kharybdis -30 points drop Typhon -Significant points increase Falchion -Slight points increase? -Can pay to re-roll enemy cover saves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaz Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Assault Squads, Javelin's.. So good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Vets are probably the best 'troops' choice now. Expecting to see a lot of those. No reason not to go with the sniper + outflank option. That one will be popular. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I mean, my IF Sniper vets got CHEAPER and now have Outflank for Free. And I don't have to change anything. I like that... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Calling it now, the new edition this year will change how ordinance works. Otherwise the pintile option on the venator is a big question mark. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Tank lists took a few hits but the erasure of needing any infantry at all in the form of an HQ is really big for the list since it also means you can drop the spartan full of bodyguard as well frees up about 500 ~ 600 points in my current setup , pretty hype about that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Here's my collated list. Any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Credit to Garro and bulbafist for anything I missed 1st time: Hidden Content HQ Primus Medicae * +10 points over old cost. * can't take power fist, chainfist, boarding shield or paired lightning claws. Chaplain * causes Fear. Command Squad * -25 points. * -5 points per model for additional members. Moritat * updated to reflect rules in FAQ, including Chain Fire Overheat. Praetor, Centurion and other Consuls are unchanged. ELITES Veteran Squad * -25 points. * additional models -3 points. * any model can swap bolter for combi-weapon for +10 points. * Veteran Tactics are very different! - Resolve Stubborn - Weaponmasters +1 Weapon Skill - Machine Killers +1 on armour penetration rolls - Marksmen Outflank AND Sniper - Xenobane re-roll To Wound against Monstrous & Gargantuan Creatures. Apothecarion Detachment - can join ANY squad that has the Infantry type and Legiones Astartes rule, but not any with Terminator armour or the Daemon special rule. - can buy a Jump Pack or Space Marine Bike, allowing them to join Jump Pack Infantry or Bike units. Can't take a Jetbike. Rapier entry includes Quad Launcher upgrades from Book VI now. Techmarines * -10 points. * Servo-automata can take heavy bolters, multi-meltas and missile launchers. If the Techmarine has rad grenades, they can swap frag & krak missiles for rad missiles for 10 points. Dreadnoughts (of all types) now reflect the rules from the FAQs. Terminators are unchanged. Destroyers are, inexplicably, completely unchanged. :( TROOPS Tactical Squad * -25 points. * Fury of the Legion is unchanged. Assault Squad * -75 points. * -2 points per model for additional members. Breachers * -25 points. * +5 points per model for additonal members. * Boarding Shields and Hardened Armour are unchanged. NB: Land Raiders got cheaper, so small squads work better now. Tactical Support Squad * can take additional combat blades for 2 points. * rotor cannon and volkite chargers are now a free upgrade. Legion Reconnaissance Squad * -25 points. Rhino and Drop Pod are unchanged. Drop Pod Assault rules seem to be the same. Dreadnought Drop Pod * +35 points. FAST ATTACK Seeker Squad * -20 points. * +5 points per model. * Precision Shot (like the FAQ said). * Scorpius bolts are now 24", S5, AP2, Heavy 1, Shred. Tarantulas * +5 points * can still Forward Deploy - they've forgotten to list a price, but it's in the special rules section. Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod * +15 points. * has Inertial Guidance System listed in box-out, but not under special rules column. ?? * can transport Legion Dreadnought, Legion Mortis Dreadnought, Contemptor Dreadnought, Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought or Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought only. Landspeeder Squadron * -10 points. * can take 2 HKMs for 5 points each like the Javelin. Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron * -20 points. * has Strafing Run special rule. * has "Grav Backwash" special rule. Means enemies have a -2 to hit it in Assault unless it is Immobilised. * I think it is now worth the £ cost! Primaris-Lightning Fighter * Sunfury missiles and Kraken penetrators are +10 points. * Phosphex bomb cluster and Electromagnetic storm charges are -10 points. HEAVY SUPPORT Deathstorm Drop Pod * updated to reflect rules in FAQ. Jetbikes Sky Slayer Support Squadron * +30 points on a normal Jetbike squad. * exactly like we theorised. 3 Jetbikes with multi-meltas, and all can be upgraded to plasma cannons/Volkite culverins. Up to 5 models strong. Predator Strike Armour Squadron * Executioner plasma destroyer is +20 points on old price. * heavy conversion beamer is -5 points. * if you take 3, one of them can be a Squadron Command Tank for +35 points: - if unit is in coherency, all ignore Crew Shaken on a 4+. - if they all shoot at a single target within 24", they gain Tank Hunter and Monster Hunter. Land Raider Battle Squadron * Phobos is -25 points. * Proteus is -20 points. Can take a hull-mounted twin-linked lascannon! * Achilles has frag & shatter shells, and can purchase the other new types (including phosphex if Siege Breaker is present). * if you take 3, one of them can be a Squadron Command Tank (see Predator notes). Achilles-Alpha Land Raider * has frag & shatter shells, and can purchase the other new types (including phosphex if Siege Breaker is present). Legion Artillery Tank Squadron * still 0-1 * if you take 3, one of them can be a Squadron Command Tank (see Predator notes). Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron * if you take 3, one of them can be a Squadron Command Tank (see Predator notes). Spartan Assault Tank * +10 points. * flare shield +20 points over old cost. Sicaran Battle Tank * +30 points. Kharybdis Assault Claw * -30 points. Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought * new weapon! May swap autocannons for a single Arachnus pattern heavy lascannon battery for +50 points. 48" range, AP2, Heavy 2, Exoshock (if you score a Penetrating hit, on a 4+ you score another Penetrating hit with no cover save). Malcador is now Heavy Support, as we know from the preview. It is also a squadron! * 1-3 Malcadors. * -25 points each. * lost Fast type. * BS4, 14 13 12 armour, 6 HP. * armed with hull-mounted heavy bolter, heavy bolter sponsons and a traverse-mounted battlecannon. * still has Battle Speed rule. * has "Sub-atomantic Reactor" rule. When rolling Thunderblitz and Catastrophic Damage table, roll 2D6 and choose lowest. * if you take 3, one of them can be a Squadron Command Tank (see Predator notes). * still has a bunch of weapon swap options, and can still take armoured ceramite & flare shield. :) LORDS OF WAR Typhon Heavy Siege Tank * +45 points. Falchion Super-Heavy Tank Destroyer * +20 points. * can upgrade it's TL Volcano cannon to have a Neutron Wave Capacitor for +35 points. Adds Shock Pulse and Feedback rules to the Volcano cannon profile. Seems cool! Sokar Pattern Stormbird has the wargear that is found on the model, ie: 4 lascannons, 3 heavy bolters. All the other Super-Heavies seem to be unchanged. Box-out of unit available from IA has changed. Tanks can take Space Marine Crew. Flyers can take Battle Servitor Control. * Baneblade, Banehammer, Stormlord, Stormsword, Shadowsword. * Macharius and variants. * Crassus and variants. * Marauder Bomber, Marauder Destroyer, Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter, Avenger Strike Fighter. * Minotaur. Questoris Knights, without Household Ranks, can be taken as part of a War Machine Detachment. RITES OF WAR Orbital Assault * just like we saw in previews, Talons of Dreadnoughts can take pods. Angel's Wrath * same, but Storm Eagles (and Fire Raptors, redundantly) also gain Strafing Run. Pride of the Legion * same, except you lose 2 VPs if you lose all your Vets/Terminators. Sorry Iron Warriors, you didn't get Siege Tyrants back! :( * also, you must have more units with Legiones Astartes than units without it. Armoured Breakthrough * same, except for Master of Armour! A single Sicaran or Predator tank may be upgraded to a Company Command vehicle, counting as an HQ, and counts as having Master of the Legion rule when running this RoW! It may be the Warlord, and instead of a Warlord Trait it has the Super-Heavy Command Tank rule (re-roll Morale within 24") and +1BS for free. Armoured Spearhead, Primarch's Chosen, Brethren of Iron, Fury of the Ancients, Outcast Sons, Skyhunter Phalanx, Orphans of Betrayal, Drop Assault Vanguard, Legion Recon Company, Zone Mortalis Assault Force & Sacrificial Offering are all seemingly unchanged. All the new Legion-specific Rites of War from Book VI are in here too, with the exception of the White Scars, Blood Angels and Dark Angels ones. Nothing seems to have changed here. WARGEAR World Eaters players rejoice! A chainaxe is now +1 Strength, AP4!!! Tanks and Super-heavies gained extra pintle-mounted weapons options too. Pretty much everything has the following: - combi-bolter or combi-weapon for 5 points. - heavy bolter or heavy flamer for 10 points. - havoc launcher or multi-melta for 15 points. Extra armour and HKMs are 5 points universally. For EACH Cortex Controller in the army, you make take 0-1 Thallax, Castellax or Vorax as a Heavy Support choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Here's my collated list.Just one Q, once more. Are the DA/WS/BA legion rules and RoWs in there too? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heptus Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I mean, my IF Sniper vets got CHEAPER and now have Outflank for Free. And I don't have to change anything. I like that... Same here, though I play EC. What do you think about the new combi-bolter option? Do we still need to bring 2 heavy bolters? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cohort Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 The Vet and assault marine changes are really big. Not sure if vets needed that much help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Just one Q, once more. Are the DA/WS/BA legion rules and RoWs in there too? No. Book VI: Retribution is still required for the 3 new Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thHorseman Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Here's my collated list. Any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Credit to Garro and bulbafist for anything I missed 1st time: All the new Legion-specific Rites of War from Book VI are in here too! They don't seem to be changed as yet. Just one Q, once more. Are the DA/WS/BA legion rules and RoWs in there too? No. Book VI: Retribution is still required for the 3 new Legions. Ok. So now I'm Confused. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Ok, sorry. The Legion-specific Rites of War section from Book VI doesn't have the WS/BA/DA ones in it - they each have their own small section covering rules, RoWs, wargear, etc. Unfortunately, this new Red Book doesn't have anything in it at all for WS/BA/DA. I will clarify that in my previous post. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I mean, my IF Sniper vets got CHEAPER and now have Outflank for Free. And I don't have to change anything. I like that... Same here, though I play EC. What do you think about the new combi-bolter option? Do we still need to bring 2 heavy bolters? Heavy Bolters are still cool to have since they give you more shots in General. IIRC, its combi-weapons not combi-bolters. If its Weapons, having Sniper Combi-Weapons can be potentially hilarious but not all that necessary since it would bloat the units cost. If Combi-Bolters are an Option, I'd totally be willing to pay the points to get BS5 Twin-Linked Sniper Bolters (Ie never miss a shot ever). I feel that Combi-Weapons will be much more useful on a Xenobane unit hunting Mechanicum MC's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heptus Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 You're right my mistake. It's a combi-weapon, not a combi-bolter. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Yep, Veterans definitely get combi-weapons. They are my new favourite unit! So many awesome builds, especially with my XXth Legionaries! Strangely, the Command Squad is still stuck with combi-bolters for 10 points. :/ Most changes are pretty good, I think. Troops dropped almost universally, and FW themselves are quoted with asking, "Breachers are underpowered?" in a confused manner. Making their initial cost lower but additional models higher is a great move - gives mounted units a buff and reduces the brutality of Stone Gauntlet. Still, with all the other Troops dropping, big units are very expensive! Javelins were already good - they are a no-brainer now. They needed a way to justify the high £ cost, and they've done it. :) Apothecaries in (nearly) every unit is awesome! Keeping Jetbikes out of the list keeps it balanced I think. Dreadpod increase we should have seen coming. Same with Spartan (plus flare shield) and Typhon. Dreadclaw gaining Inertial Guidance System is cool. Kharybdis drop is very tempting! Squadron Command Tank is absolutely amazing, especially with Armoured Breakthrough lists. And Malcadors! What a buff! I'm so pleased they made them unique in the Legion list. Land Raiders are almost worth it now - if they gave the Phobos a capacity of 12, I would have cheered out loud! Any other thoughts guys? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Ceastus Assault Ram is unchanged ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldier of Dorn Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Awesome. Just... awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 So flare shields are a total of +45 points now? Still worth it IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmCjkh Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Did I read it right that Seeker's Scorpius bolt shells are now S5 AP2 Heavy 1 Shred? From S4 AP5 Heavy 1 Rending, Shred? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldier of Dorn Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 One question, though, and this is more a hope than anything else, but can Seeker sergeants take combi-weapons now? I have my fingers crossed that they can, but it's just an idle hope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 @AmCjkh, yes - I just updated that! Brutal stuff. @The Psycho, it has the same wording as before, so technically they can't. Personally, I believe that they can, and they have excluded it unintentionally. Edited my list to include some more info on Vehicle options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Oooooh Scorpius Bolts are actually consistent damage dealers now? Thats nice! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Apothecaries can join ANY non TDA unit with LA? Damn, that makes a lot of things way simpler. Stick them in Quad Mortar unit with Augury Scanner, attach them to your elite units like Palatines or Templar Brethren without wasting a HQ slot. That has to be the most significant change. Edit: Fixed. Thanks for the hint ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 ^ Any Infantry unit that isn't in Terminator armour or has the Daemon rule. Quad Launchers are Artillery. But everything else is on point! Saves points and slots! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/#findComment-4442576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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