Brofist Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 It's open topped, so you're shooting from any corner of the pod you like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Hey atleast they gave us native access to Knights in our lists via war machine detachment. For me at least, this isn't an upside when talking about more expensive leviathans. I prefer to keep my armies full Astartes where possible. Knights are cool, I just like Levy more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 The targeting change to dread pods is awful. Basically makes dropping dreads too expensive and does nothing to protect Contemptors and Leviathans since they already have equal or better saves. Cortus pods are raw garbage now, a 5++ won't save AV11. Way to go ruining dread pods, leviathans. Into the corner with you! Yeah, no dudes. Have you gotten a chance to actually play with a drop pod Levi since the rules change? Bc I just tried it out last night in a pair of games, one against Sons of Horus, one against Iron Warriors, both at 2500 with my 3 Levi World Eater Orbital Assault. You've essentially got a 3+ invuln for that first turn. Leviathans are not sweating the loss of those three extra hull points as much as the frantic net panic would suggest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 The targeting change to dread pods is awful. Basically makes dropping dreads too expensive and does nothing to protect Contemptors and Leviathans since they already have equal or better saves. Cortus pods are raw garbage now, a 5++ won't save AV11. They will also get a 3+ cover save on the drop though. 5+ for burn retros +2 to cover save for shooting THROUGH the pod. That help a little? It's open topped, so you're shooting from any corner of the pod you like. When you shoot from the corner of the pod, you do not shoot through it. What exactly is the change? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I would hope when you devote over 1100+ points to it, it will do work. Though, questions need to be answered - are you supposed to assume the dread is at the centre of the pod? is cover determined by how much of the dread you would be able to see through the door? After all, dreads need 25% coverage. Are you supposed to try to place the dread in the centre of the pod? We've never really had a situation where the occupant can still be shot while its in a transport vehicle, since for Chariots it has always been the choice of the owner. Honestly, the better nerf would have been to just remove the assault vehicle rule, without having to create some weird state where the dread is both on and off the board. That way the dread would have to get out or stay in and shoot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
STC Logisengine Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 All I hear is that my Stormlord is finally legal, Achilles can take phosphex (and I can make the destroyer company I want) and I can take Malcadors as HS. Wheeeee! On a side note I am a bit sad that destroyers did not get a re-do, they desperately need either special munitions to their pistols to justify the horrendous cost or a small drop in points.Anyway, to the paintstation you fool! Hurry! (the fool)http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2016/1/3/768379_md-Horus%20Heresy%2C%20Stormlord%2C%20Super-heavy%2C%20Tank.JPG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 It's a question I shall bring up tomorrow, how the rule was intended by the people who actually designed it. I don't think we have had something where the occupant can be targetted, ever, so will be interesting to see why the response will be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Cheers TRK, doing the Emperor's work! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I feel like that isn't really a relevant comparison to the vehicle dismantling capabilities of most lists in 30k Fair enough, it's also taken down a knight 1 on 1 after being shot at by the opposition army and its also taken down vulkan on its own... Whether you agree with the context or not my experience is that leviathans are incredibly durable and allowing them to stay in a pod hiding was a bit wrong in honesty. Now the pod costs a touch more and your opponent can try to reach to it before it mails their lines. Better analysis? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2gud2bbad Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I don't know out of the 3 Nerfs (points, offensive, defensive) 2 would have been sufficient imo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I love every change so far. For night lords I no longer feel bad for picking anything that isn't terror assualt and just awesome changes all around including the dreadnought one. Also did I read that right, do we now have access to the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSUALT TRANSPORT in the LOW section? If so that would be a great boon to us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Also did I read that right, do we now have access to the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSUALT TRANSPORT in the LOW section? If so that would be a great boon to us.I wonder if the 'crassus variants' clause include the proteus praetor. Not the I know what its rules look like, I just love the look of that missile platform! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 SoH and WEs have shot into the stratosphere in terms of strength! :D Tis a good day to be a heretic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldier of Dorn Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Also did I read that right, do we now have access to the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSUALT TRANSPORT in the LOW section? If so that would be a great boon to us.I wonder if the 'crassus variants' clause include the proteus praetor. Not the I know what its rules look like, I just love the look of that missile platform! Crassus variants are the Crassus itself, the Praetor, and the Dominus Heavy Siege Bombard, the third of which does not, in fact, have a model, so yes, it's included. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuittzz Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 With the new moritat model being released soon, does anyone think that maybe there will be rules that come with him that will buff Destroyers when attached? Could be why there was no change for them. Clutching at straws Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Way to go ruining dread pods, leviathans. Into the corner with you! Edit: The Kharbydis is an AV 12 flyer that has to come on the board in hover mode, and doesn't even have the courtesy of Ceramite. Seems like a death trap to me! Though, I suppose if it doesn't get exploded, it can at least tank five hull points... Don't forget jink for a 4++. The Kharybdis has always arrived in hover mode and has always been better than Spartans. Spartans got more expensive, Kharybdis cheaper. Win for me, loss for Spartan fans. Well, looks like i'm getting 3 Boxnaughts with flamestorm cannons in a Talon an drop those instead of a leviathan Haha Yeah, only in Orbital Assaults though, which now has almost no viable heavy support choices except Fire Raptors and Kharybdis craft. Podded leviathans were great alpha support and distraction carnifexes for lists that had to cross the board. I'm just glad I didn't buy the second Leviathan and 2 extra dread pods for my Cortus Contemptors last week. It's open topped, so you're shooting from any corner of the pod you like. The specific rules of the pod override this. Anything you shoot from the pod is shrouded due to the dust cloud. I used to ink that's how it works (makes logical sense the dust blocks both ways) and thought the pod was too much at 65 until this forum "corrected" me and convinced me otherwise. Now at 100 and no ablative hull? Tough call. The targeting change to dread pods is awful. Basically makes dropping dreads too expensive and does nothing to protect Contemptors and Leviathans since they already have equal or better saves. Cortus pods are raw garbage now, a 5++ won't save AV11.They will also get a 3+ cover save on the drop though.5+ for burn retros +2 to cover save for shooting THROUGH the pod. That help a little? A little, until you realize opponents also get shrouded. Leviathans do get the grav bombard that ignored cover, but if taking the bombard you also wanted to shoot the phosphex (in subsequent turns you were going after armor or just getting in melee to prevent being shot at, so phosphex was either useless or counter productive). Death blossom, chest volkites, melta lance all took serious hits. Way to work around it is to drop between what you want to shoot at and what you don't want to be shot with, and disembark, so you can still fire unimpeded and they have to break through 3+ cover. If you have space for all that anyway. The targeting change to dread pods is awful. Basically makes dropping dreads too expensive and does nothing to protect Contemptors and Leviathans since they already have equal or better saves. Cortus pods are raw garbage now, a 5++ won't save AV11. Way to go ruining dread pods, leviathans. Into the corner with you!Yeah, no dudes.Have you gotten a chance to actually play with a drop pod Levi since the rules change? Bc I just tried it out last night in a pair of games, one against Sons of Horus, one against Iron Warriors, both at 2500 with my 3 Levi World Eater Orbital Assault. You've essentially got a 3+ invuln for that first turn. Leviathans are not sweating the loss of those three extra hull points as much as the frantic net panic would suggest. Leviathans are not listed as being able to take talons in pods (I get taking three as your 3 HS I guess). The save is improved at a cost of 3 hull points and 5+ save for your targets, so now I'm thinking "best" variant is just claw/drill for great vengeance. Also, unless you plan breaking your pods in half, you can't physically fit leviathans in there to get 25%. I guess you can house rule it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 You can take 1 Levi for each heavy support slot though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Yeah, no dudes.Have you gotten a chance to actually play with a drop pod Levi since the rules change? Bc I just tried it out last night in a pair of games, one against Sons of Horus, one against Iron Warriors, both at 2500 with my 3 Levi World Eater Orbital Assault. You've essentially got a 3+ invuln for that first turn. Leviathans are not sweating the loss of those three extra hull points as much as the frantic net panic would suggest. Leviathans are not listed as being able to take talons in pods, so you cheated. The save is improved at a cost of 3 hull points and 5+ save for your targets, so now I'm thinking "best" variant is just claw/drill for great vengeance. Also, unless you plan breaking your pods in half, you can't physically fit leviathans in there to get 25%. I guess you can house rule it. 3 Heavy Support Slots, 3 Solo Levis in Pods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 Also, unless you plan breaking your pods in half, you can't physically fit leviathans in there to get 25%. I guess you can house rule it. Hahaha, no kidding. I love my conversions and considered making my Leviathan fit inside. Then reality hit. No way I'm spending that much energy on a 65 point transport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4443987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Whomever said Kharybidis are bad needs to slap them self right meow. I've had them live through Sicaran and lascannon fire to survive with one HP left to deliver their goods. Even better now that they're cheaper. Drop one in your enemy's line with a buffed up despoiler or terminator squad and watch them cry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4444008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Also, unless you plan breaking your pods in half, you can't physically fit leviathans in there to get 25%. I guess you can house rule it.Hahaha, no kidding. I love my conversions and considered making my Leviathan fit inside. Then reality hit. No way I'm spending that much energy on a 65 point transport.100 points, bro. The struggle is real. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4444020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I would hope when you devote over 1100+ points to it, it will do work. Err... Yeah. It did lots of work. If you want evidence of Levis not requiring extra HP to shield them from shooting, look no further than an Iron Warrior gunline and a SoH Pride of the Legion. What I don't get is why you seem to phrase it like it invalidates my assertion that Levis do just fine without pod shields? You want practical evidence, and not internet armchair theorizing, there ya go. Though, questions need to be answered - are you supposed to assume the dread is at the centre of the pod? is cover determined by how much of the dread you would be able to see through the door? After all, dreads need 25% coverage. Are you supposed to try to place the dread in the centre of the pod? Yes, Nah, and nah I don't think a Levi will physically fit. You're shooting through the pod to hit the dread. Models intervene. Yeah, no dudes.Have you gotten a chance to actually play with a drop pod Levi since the rules change? Bc I just tried it out last night in a pair of games, one against Sons of Horus, one against Iron Warriors, both at 2500 with my 3 Levi World Eater Orbital Assault. You've essentially got a 3+ invuln for that first turn. Leviathans are not sweating the loss of those three extra hull points as much as the frantic net panic would suggest. Leviathans are not listed as being able to take talons in pods, so you cheated. The save is improved at a cost of 3 hull points and 5+ save for your targets, so now I'm thinking "best" variant is just claw/drill for great vengeance. Also, unless you plan breaking your pods in half, you can't physically fit leviathans in there to get 25%. I guess you can house rule it. I'm a little disappointed. You seemed so excited when you thought you'd get to call me a cheater. I'm sorry we couldn't make that happen for you :/ But no, like Slips mentioned, three HS slots, three Levis in pods. Also, I didn't have to break a pod in half. Since everyone involved in those couple games was an adult, we chatted it over and agreed to just place the leviathan next to the pod, pointing the direction I wanted him to face. Can't tell you how well just discussing it with my opponent in a clear and concise manner worked. It was bananas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4444035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldier of Dorn Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I swear I've seen pictures of a Leviathan inside a Dreadnought Drop Pod before... Ah, here it is. From the Instagrymmes. https://www.instagram.com/p/BHVqoSWBcJm/ Now that I look at it, I see what y'all mean about having to break it in half to get him in. No way he'd fit through those doors, unless you were really careful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4444076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I would hope when you devote over 1100+ points to it, it will do work. Err... Yeah. It did lots of work. If you want evidence of Levis not requiring extra HP to shield them from shooting, look no further than an Iron Warrior gunline and a SoH Pride of the Legion. What I don't get is why you seem to phrase it like it invalidates my assertion that Levis do just fine without pod shields? You want practical evidence, and not internet armchair theorizing, there ya go. Though, questions need to be answered - are you supposed to assume the dread is at the centre of the pod? is cover determined by how much of the dread you would be able to see through the door? After all, dreads need 25% coverage. Are you supposed to try to place the dread in the centre of the pod? Yes, Nah, and nah I don't think a Levi will physically fit. You're shooting through the pod to hit the dread. Models intervene. Yeah, no dudes. Have you gotten a chance to actually play with a drop pod Levi since the rules change? Bc I just tried it out last night in a pair of games, one against Sons of Horus, one against Iron Warriors, both at 2500 with my 3 Levi World Eater Orbital Assault. You've essentially got a 3+ invuln for that first turn. Leviathans are not sweating the loss of those three extra hull points as much as the frantic net panic would suggest. Leviathans are not listed as being able to take talons in pods, so you cheated. The save is improved at a cost of 3 hull points and 5+ save for your targets, so now I'm thinking "best" variant is just claw/drill for great vengeance. Also, unless you plan breaking your pods in half, you can't physically fit leviathans in there to get 25%. I guess you can house rule it. I'm a little disappointed. You seemed so excited when you thought you'd get to call me a cheater. I'm sorry we couldn't make that happen for you :/ But no, like Slips mentioned, three HS slots, three Levis in pods. Also, I didn't have to break a pod in half. Since everyone involved in those couple games was an adult, we chatted it over and agreed to just place the leviathan next to the pod, pointing the direction I wanted him to face. Can't tell you how well just discussing it with my opponent in a clear and concise manner worked. It was bananas. Except you still need to be 25% obscured, whether a model is intervening or not. It would be a hard sell to convince me that my models with Meltaguns, standing in front of the door there have an obscured shot to the dread standing in the middle of the pod. Page 136 of the gamers edition digital book has the necessary info for vehicle cover saves if you like, or you could look up Vehicles and Cover in your physical copy. At least 25% of the facing that is being targeted needs to be hidden by intervening terrain or models from the point of view of the firer for the vehicle to be in cover. -page 136 digital gamers edition Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4444127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Do the doors have to open? Lol Surely if they remain shut there would be no LoS to the Dread? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/10/#findComment-4444222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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