Baluc Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Does anyone know if they changed the rules in regard to allowing command squads to take legion special weapons? I want my all chainglaive unit damnit! Big old nope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 The pod line needs a legitimate FAQ as the language is very poor and should be clear one way or another instead of being arguable either way Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 The pod line needs a legitimate FAQ as the language is very poor and should be clear one way or another instead of being arguable either way Personally I think it's rather clear. Just need to break it down. Multiple fraters have come around to the same thinking when doing so :D Does anyone know if they changed the rules in regard to allowing command squads to take legion special weapons? I want my all chainglaive unit damnit! This is an absolute crying shame! It would be so awesome and fluffy to get Phoenix Spear/ Chainglaive/ Powerscythe/ Storm Shield etc CS! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I'm sorry, but there is no way you can assault INTO a transport Nusquam I never said you can assault into a transport And I still don't see how you guys can read it as the dread can disembark AND can't be assaulted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 The pod line needs a legitimate FAQ as the language is very poor and should be clear one way or another instead of being arguable either way Personally I think it's rather clear. Just need to break it down. Multiple fraters have come around to the same thinking when doing so Yet multiple ones have also not, as you can break "if this is the case" down to mean two very different things. I sent them an email about it so hopefully we'll see tomorrow Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenbain Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I may well be being stupid, but why are we ignoring the line "though it may still be targeted by shooting attacks"? :-/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 The pod line needs a legitimate FAQ as the language is very poor and should be clear one way or another instead of being arguable either way Personally I think it's rather clear. Just need to break it down. Multiple fraters have come around to the same thinking when doing so Yet multiple ones have also not, as you can break "if this is the case" down to mean two very different things. I sent them an email about it so hopefully we'll see tomorrow Not really, it says if you want to you may get out of the pod, if THIS is the case then etc etc So getting out of the pod is the case it refers to. I may well be being stupid, but why are we ignoring the line "though it may still be targeted by shooting attacks"? :-/ This is to stop people from saying it can't be assaulted so it cannot be charged. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 How are we ignoring that? I'm confused as to how people are thinking what I'm saying to be the opposite of what I'm saying. Not really, it says if you want to you may get out of the pod, if THIS is the case then etc etc I think this is where we are getting off track. It's not you may wish to leave, it's you may wish to STAY inside the pod. That is the 'case'. That you don't have to leave and therefore are inside the pod still. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Hmm... Okay having read it while not at work now I can see the other side somewhat, but taking the most recent statement of the sentence to be true it means if you wish to exit imo. FW will hopefully clear it up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenbain Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Well people seem to think the Dreadnought can't be shot at while in the pod, despite that line stating that this is an exception to the usual rules and it can be targeted and shot at while it is in the pod. It just can't be assaulted. I'm wondering what I'm missing that is giving people that impression? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 As I mentioned a few times, if you choose to interpret it this way, then you also have to accept that Burning Retros goes away the next turn. So you can shoot at a dreadnaught inside the drop pod the turn it comes down, but not any turn after that. Why would they make an exception to the BRB rules only for it to be irrelevant the next turn? It makes no sense. You can't just choose one part of this interpretation and omit the other parts of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenbain Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 That may be so RAW, though I'd argue it isn't RAI, but aren't you doing a similar thing by choosing another interpretation? I also can't see another way it can be interpreted that takes into account why they have included that line in the first place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Here's the exact language for those still waiting for their books: http://i.imgur.com/0yOnrE8.jpg Well people seem to think the Dreadnought can't be shot at while in the pod, despite that line stating that this is an exception to the usual rules and it can be targeted and shot at while it is in the pod. It just can't be assaulted. I'm wondering what I'm missing that is giving people that impression? Here's my take on this: though it may still be targeted by shooting attacksStill implies that the dread could already be targetted, which is, usually, only possible if the dread is not inside a vehicle since passengers cannot be targetted. it may not be charged while this rule is in effect.This part, here, seems to be the purpose of this special rule: even though he's no longer inside the transport and can be targetted, you can't charge. Simple. There's no point specifying the dread can't be charged if he's still inside the pod because : - Opponents are not allowed to move within 1" of the pod if they're not charging it - Opponents cannot charge vehicle passengers unless the vehicle is destroyed first IMO this clearly means the only way this rule makes sense is if it applies when the dread emains within the pod. exits the pod. + Edit : Fixed the spacing for the purpose of clarity... + + Edit : What the *, I spoke the exact opposite of what I meant, got lost in my train of thought there... :\ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 That's the thing. It works without issue the other way around. If we interpret it the other way, not only are there no BRB conflicts, the last part of Burning Retros makes a whole lot more sense- the cloud is gone after a turn, so you can now assault the dreadnought if it was outside of the pod and shoot at both the dreadnought and pod without the effects of the shrouded special rule. It feels a stretch to interpret it the other way when not only does it change how the rules of the game work, but it also goes away for no reason the next turn. Meanwhile, the other way around, there are no conflicts or issues. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 That's the thing. It works without issue the other way around. If we interpret it the other way, not only are there no BRB conflicts, the last part of Burning Retros makes a whole lot more sense- the cloud is gone after a turn, so you can now assault the dreadnought if it was outside of the pod and shoot at both the dreadnought and pod without the effects of the shrouded special rule. It feels a stretch to interpret it the other way when not only does it change how the rules of the game work, but it also goes away for no reason the next turn. Meanwhile, the other way around, there are no conflicts or issues. I know, I definitely meant it the other way round, I really let a huge mistake slip by there :\ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenbain Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I agree with that logic Player 404 and believe that to be the rules intention - they can be shot but not assaulted. Though Bulbafist is right in that currently as written the rule allowing the Dreadnought to be shot despite being in a transport ends after the initial turn the rule is in effect. I think that is an oversight by FW, as not only does it not make sense (do the doors suddenly close?) but fluffwise, no self-respecting Dreadnought would cower away inside a Drop Pod once it has landed. Edit - Now I'm confused. I don't agree with that interpretation, but I'm not a rules guy so I'll just wait for confirmation from Forgeworld :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Edit - Now I'm confused. I don't agree with that interpretation, but I'm not a rules guy so I'll just wait for confirmation from Forgeworld :-)Yeah, sorry Fenbain, I messed up there... Truth is, I agree the wording is really bad. I hate how Games Workshop and Forge World always prefer verbose, elegant phrases instead of sticking to straight to the point writing which is a lot more appropriate for rules. I still think, however, that reading it as though the dread can be shot at while in a pod makes no sense : Standard rules are : Models within vehicle can : - not be shot - not be charged Models outside vehicles (and on the table) can : - be shot - be charged Burning retros says : A ) Can still be shot. B ) Can not be charged while this rule is in effect. A ) Still means the Dread could already be shot at, which applies only if the dread is outside the pod. B ) There is no point in specifying this if the dread remains inside the pod since this would already be prohibited. Both parts are thus irrelevant or inaccurate if we apply this rule to a pod that remains inside its pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 That's the thing. It works without issue the other way around. If we interpret it the other way, not only are there no BRB conflicts, the last part of Burning Retros makes a whole lot more sense- the cloud is gone after a turn, so you can now assault the dreadnought if it was outside of the pod and shoot at both the dreadnought and pod without the effects of the shrouded special rule. It feels a stretch to interpret it the other way when not only does it change how the rules of the game work, but it also goes away for no reason the next turn. Meanwhile, the other way around, there are no conflicts or issues. I know, I definitely meant it the other way round, I really let a huge mistake slip by there :\ Sorry dude! I was responding to Fenbain. Apologies for any confusion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Polo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I should grab my popcorn, sounds like this is going to be a long one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 forgeworld@gwplc.com Those who wish so, please send a question about it to this email. The more the merrier! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 the more who ask, the more divergent answers we're going to get. FWs known to basically fold to any weighted rules question Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I like the Deredero's new lascannon arms makes me very happy. I always take two and with access to las it will ensure better tank hunting as the main gun was good but It's ap meant it wasn't the best option for anti tank Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I think it's pretty clear the intent of the rule, taken in context of the paragraph, is to allow the Dread to be shot while in the pod. I suppose an argument can be made for the turns after the turn it lands, but really? Is any of your leviathans cowering in a pod after the first turn? :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 the more who ask, the more divergent answers we're going to get. FWs known to basically fold to any weighted rules questionI agree it's usually the 'our rules clarifications are done via FAQs, discuss among your gaming group to decide what the west way between you is' response.I thought the exact same thing about different answers but deleted that comment haha Maybe a rule of average, or hell, why not roll a di e and choose which answers to use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Alright folks, this debate has officially hit stalemate territory. Discuss it with your opponent before playing and scoot this convo along past to new things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/16/#findComment-4446857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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