helterskelter Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 It seems like nearly everyone's army has about 200 points floating loose with these changes. The typhon points boost is much needed. Still doesnt stop people taking it at 2k but with other legion unit change's though as you save the points boost with the other deductions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Glad they dropped the points on breachers, but sad they didn't boost the protection of the shield. Or add a gladius option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 It seems like nearly everyone's army has about 200 points floating loose with these changes. The typhon points boost is much needed. Still doesnt stop people taking it at 2k but with other legion unit change's though as you save the points boost with the other deductions Im a guy who runs a spartan and two sicarans, but also veterans... so I think i pretty much broke even Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Need moar Speeders! Need moar Jetbikes! Need... well, money would be a good start :D FW is still an unachievable dream for me :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Well, overall, I'm satisfied. I think we got about 70% of what we needed. Focusing on the positive: Troops, for the most part, cost less, and do more. They were always a big tax in lists so people are happy and this is good good good Apothacaries are back in style Land raiders of all flavours are cheaper. Still probably not cheap enough, but any points drop was very welcome My beloved squadron command tank rules are back and better than before Fast attack got some much needed attention Dreadclaws are reliable and still a steal for their points Then we have some head scratchers: Breachers cost more?? Destroyers unchanged, remain the 30k pyrovores? Whirlwinds still useless? Scorpius unchanged? A points increase to the Falchion? No changes to the Cerebrus or Thunderhawk? The poor old Primus Medicae costs even more and can take even less? Deredeo weapon options still way too costly compared to how it comes stock? Krakens cost even more? Overall, not bad, but I am surprised by a few things. By a far margin the winners feel like veterans and dreadclaws. Maybe too much so. Armoured Breakthrough is even stronger than before. Expect to see that one quite a bit I'd say.  Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I don't see a reason to take a Primus Medicae ever again as an Ultramarine. Just take a normal apothecary for half the cost with my Suzerains. Â The Sicaran and Spartan increases are fair, even if it might mean I need to redo a list or two. Â Chaplains getting fear is a pretty big deal in 30k, Imo. Especially since everyone has like four of them from their BAC boxes. Â The new Veteran Tactics are also stupid good, especially now that they are essentially Sternguard w/o Specialist ammo but significantly cheaper. If there is a way to make them troops in an orbital assault RoW, I don't see a reason to take other troop variants ever again. (Delegatus, I suppose?) Â All in all, looks like good changes! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Imperial Fists Primus' can still Totally Rock Sol Gloves since the way to access it is to have the option for a Thunderhammer which they still do woo! The weapon chance, imo, is a fluff one since he'd need, preferably, both hands free to help with any medical stuff which means no giant gloves. Â While the New Deredeo Weapon is Expensive, it still packs a punch at S10 which means it can tackle heavier armour with it; something it couldn't readily do before and those extra auto pens on a 4+ that ignores cover? I like it. Â IF Sniper Vets: Better than ever before and now cheaper to boot. Yay! Â My BIGGEST disappointment is Destroyers getting no love. Otherwise the changes I'm 100% ok with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I hope my Ultramarines breacher list isn't effected too much by that change. Â As for the new Vet Tactics, too cool. Now my AL list doesn't need to use Infiltrate/Scout for Outflank and I can go for Tank Hunters. Hell to the yeah. Â Also, DA Vet Tac squads with +1WS are tasty :O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 My biggest disappointments are definitely breachers and destroyers. That and no changes to some of the other few under-performers. Â For the cost of a deredeo you can just get yourself 2.5 laser destroyer rapiers, which now have 48" range to boot. I don't expect to see it used much except maybe against super heavy fliers. Seekers look pretty cool now that they have AP2 at 24" by default. Grab some combi plasma, and then either infiltrate or pod them in. Have yourself a merry little time. Then, if they are still around, keep taking 24" terminator slaying pot shots. Â In general this update gives marines more options to deal with admech high toughness monsters. On the flip side, they now have the best tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Tanks got nerfed? Nein nein nein Cool apothecaries for my ws tough Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Tanks got nerfed? Nein nein nein Cool apothecaries for my ws tough Squadrons got buffed really, it's the standalone ones that got the increases. Which for what they do is justifiable. It all balances out in the long run depending on your list. A few people will have to make cuts, a few more will have points to play with, another bunch will have so many points spare they won't know what to do. These updates are good Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Did the Xiphon get 10pts cheaper? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwithout Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Wow.... my standard 2500 point scars list took a 115 point hit! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Did the Xiphon get 10pts cheaper? Â nope still 205Â Â Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Incredible change all around. Â Destroyers staying must be some sort of weird oversight, but oh well. The reductions everywhere else is enough to make them useable. Â Letting Apothecarys join Suzerians is pure filth! Â Troop discounts are the best and Vets are just the most amazing things ever now. Combi Plas, Outflank and Sniper Vets in a DA Army. Awesome. Â Support squads getting access to an extra ccw is an awesome change; Melta, Chargers, Flamers can all charge after firing! And depending on Legion could be awesome (especially BA/DA). Â MALCADOR SQUADRONS is so insane. I truly love it. Â Cant wait for Battlescribe to be updated so I can make some lists! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Oh, also of note, a Rhino in a Stormbird now counts as 25 Slots instead of the previous 12 whether it has a squad embarked or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Very pleased with a lot of those changes. Can't really complain that the points increases on units like the Typhon and Spartan aren't justified and the fact that infantry across the board took a price drop is very welcome indeed. The changes to squadrons is massive too - now there's incentive to go big rather than just making efficient use of HS slots. But Jesus Christ Vindicators are now crazy  I agree though - Destroyers? I'll try and collar Andy Hoare on Sunday to ask the rational. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstra Sumus Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Need that BS update so I can build lists. Furiously. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Also, it looks like Laser Destroyers are indeed 36" and 48" on the vindicator? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Omg OMG omg World Eaters just got HUGE buffs. Their core strength was superior troops and they're all now CHEAPER? Â Useable assault marines with +1S chainaxes?! For FREE? Â Not to mention inductii can now shred light armour :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 World Eaters getting +1S on Chainaxes is insane. Â But also - Blackshields say HI! As they can NOW GET APOTHECARIES IN MARAUDER SQUADS! Â 48" Laser Vindis?! Woo! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Here's another good one- rhino's can take pintile mounted heavy flamers and multi meltas. For 15 points. Battle bunkers are back baby. Â All tanks can take those options too. So vindicators, predators, and sicarans can augment their firepower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Couldn't Rhino's always take pintle weapons? Â Also - Rhino's with an assault cannon for BA! Wheeeee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedmeister Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Cheaper base unit of breachers - nice AC Proteus for 200 points - excellent! Falchion with Shock Pulse upgrade - narsty! Â Â Shame about destroyers though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 So, just to make sure I've got this right, Sicarans can take pintle weapons inc heavy flamers, so BA can swap that out for an assault cannon leaving a tank with the Accelerator Cannon, 3 Heavy Bolters and an Assault Cannon? Jesus :cuss Christ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/page/2/#findComment-4442668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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