Imperial fists 2000pt force using battlescribe update

[The laughing raven]

So having played around on the new battlescribe app this morning for the new book, I've rewritten my wip painting project to become the following;

Forgelord, cataphractii, chainfist, Combi melta, rad grenades, cyber familiar, transponder 172

 

10 breachers, melta & flamer, vox & vex, serg, th,aa,bc,mb. land raider phobos. 525

10 tac marines, extra ccw, vox & Vex, serg, pf+pd, aa, mb, cw. rhino, 240

Cortus, Kheres, heavy flamer 160

Term squad 1; 5x chainfists, transponder 240

Term squad 2; 2 pairs lc, Iac, serg gh, transponder; 245

1o hvy Bolters; HA, , serg aa,aug, rhino 310

Predator, 3 x heavy flamers.

 

Forgelord joins Term sq 2 to make best use of the rad nades and also give them anti tank. the second squad will port in at same place and provide bs5 rapid fire on troops and then chewing any tanks/dreads that get near to ts2. would use the breachers and tac marines vox to call in no scatter deepstrike and also saturate a target area with bodies, while the cortus and the predator weed out hordes with the flamers and light vehicles with the main weapons.

[K3nn3rs]

I'm not sure on your meta but do think you've covered the threat of hordes/ light vehicles a little too well with the HB sqd and predators at the expense of anti air and and anti tank?

 

Perhaps a smaller heavy support sqd with missile launchers (with flak) behind a defence line with a comms link would help cover these threats? (Though it will not defeat flare shield Spartans and would struggle against Knights)

[The laughing raven]

This will mainly be used against non-marine players and save my Alpha list for cracking those this would be more an anti gaurd-mechanic us lists where volume of fire will be of more use ;) but when going up the next thousand would add in a whole lot more on that side you are correct.

[The laughing raven]

So taking into account the lack of anti AV/air a slightly more balanced try ;

 

Forge lord, grav gun, AA, pow axe, rad, cyb f, mb, refractor, 165

4servitors with rad mls 148

Damocles rhino 100

 

Primus Medicae cataphract transponder 145

5Terminators IAC, 5 CFs, gren, 250

 

10 tac marines, v&v, 2ccw, serg AA,Pf, mb, 190

10 Breachers, grav guns, v&v, serg AA, th, be,mb 300

 

10 Hvy bolters,, ha, Aug, 275

5 ML, Ha, flakk, 235

 

Contemptor Kheres, grav, 205

Contemptor Morris TllCans 185

 

Total 1993

[Slips]

Why Take Cataphractii if you can get Tartaros and a Storm Shield for a better invulnerable and the ability to sweep and Run? If you're limited by B@C that might explain that...

 

Also, why take the Grenade Harness on your Terminators? They all have Chain Fists so are striking at I1 regardless of them charging into terrain or not. And if they want to deep strike with the Primus, the squad also needs a Transponder, Deep Strike is not a conferred rule. While we're at it, save some points and only take 2/5 chain fists, keep the rest as power fists.

 

I'd Honestly give the Forge Lord Tartaros and a Stormshield or Cataphractii & Cyber (if thats what you're limited to) and stick him to the terms. At least then his Rad Grenades and Punchiness will come into play vs sitting in the backfield babysitting BS3 Missile Servitors. He also has an 18" Graviton Gun on a non-relentless platform as you've currently got him. Not all that useful if you move. Again, a Power Fist or, even better, a Sol Glove is a better weapon than an Axe.

 

Hardened Armour on your HSS is only useful if they're eating non-AP3 blasts and templates. Outside of ZM, you won't find it come into play all that often for its cost.

 

Get a Chainfist on your Contemptor.

 

A Deredeo does anti-air and anti-tank magnitudes better than a 24" Kheres Mortis. If thats all you've got at hand, fair enough.

 

++++++++

 

The main issue I see you encountering is getting shot off the board before being able to do much: 

• You have 10 Tac Marines without a Transport. Better off sacrificing the extra CCW and getting them a Rhino for protection and mobility.
• Terminators will deep strike and stand somewhere cut off from the rest of your slow army ( the furthest anything can currently move is 6") and subsequently eat all the Ap2 fire your opponent has and then some. Take it from personal experience, 5 TDA even with a 4++ and FNP die surprisingly easy when deep struck in perfect template form.

[The laughing raven]

With the storm shield option you can't have a bolter being the main and also I wanted to use the BaC termies as I don't use them in my Alpha legion list. The chainfists on all is cause I really like the look of the unit now I've got them all painted up and converted over the captain to a Primus Medicae to join them with an assault cannon as well.

 

The Forge Lord is also a wysiwyg from my stores painting comp as he is an mech adept from a lucky dip that has been marine make overdeveloped ;) was thinking it would be fun to see what 4 flesh bane missiles and an orbital bombardment from his Damocles transport could do to a death star......?

 

The termies should have had transponder in list points are paid for it, the grenade harness is a mistake as that I would've been for the second unit I will be painting that is using just pow swords so they can go at I and deal with any MEQs that harass the main unit.

 

Hardened armour is from my love of Breachers and their survivability, so always add it when given the chance, but can see your point they should be kept in cover anyway so will remove.

 

I have no defender model as much as I would love one, brilliant model, reminds me slightly of the baddy robot from Robocop!

 

Taking your two big points though, how about swap the Contemptor, the flakk missiles and the Hardened armour for two rhinos and a land raider as transports for the tac breacher and Hvy bolter squads, makes it mobile and gives it some good survivability?

[Slips]

That would be fair enough to me.

 

As for the Termies and Bolters, Id rather get a better invulnerable or a Combi-weapon. BS5 Twin Linked bolt guns look cool on paper but, at the end of the day, theyre bolters.

 

At least get a Storm Shield on your Primus to make him harder to kill. Maybe even the Terminator Sergeant for when he has to challenge block.

 

The forge lord is fair enough though I seriously debate the usefulness of a Damocles. You only have 1 unit coming in from reserves so youre not really making the most of its reserve manipulation and for a bit cheaper you can get a Master of Signals who also has a Bombardment and can grant a Squad +1 BS if he doesnt shoot (IE BS5 Tank Hunter HSS Squads).

 

4 Fleshbane Missiles might be cool but their debuff doesnt stack and still bounces off 2+ Saves nor can they really tackle AV due to low volume and BS with Krak Missiles. Its up to you but I'd use those points to instead get more HSS missile marines who'd benefit greatly from a Master of Signal if you went that route.

 

Theyd only truly be useful Vs MC spam though they become giant targets.

[The laughing raven]

The Mos isn't able to transport the forge Lord and his servitors which is why I opted for it, I just love the idea of shooting radiation missiles! I wasn't sure if the Primus would be allowed a shield as they can't have a boarding shield can they.

[Slips]

Boarding Shield =/= Storm Shield in the same way that he can also have a Solarite Power Gauntlet since he can still take a Thunderhammer.

 

Paying 100pts for a Rhino with no Firing Points for a Squad with 48" Missile Range? I'm still not convinced.

[The laughing raven]

think of it less as paying a 100pts for a transport that cant be shot from more as an extrta 65pts for an orbital bombardment and a no scatter bubble for when i need those termies in just the right spot which can also transport up to 6 models, justr enough for the tech and servies. and having had some awesome results with my destroyers missile launchers I love the idea of 4 of them for 150pts, I know the mechanicum players of my group hate them....

also the termies are just for cc with tanks hence the cfs on all, if i could work out how to actually post a pic from my phone i would put up my WiP

Also what is your take on the new rite of war, with all the teleporting what force would you opt for at 2kpts?

A rewritten version which would be a lot more competitive, but no so fluffy would be;

Praetor, tda, para blade, vigil shield, digi lasers, gh, transponder 215

6 CataphractiiTerminators, 6 CFs, IAC, transponder 255

Primus medicae, tda, transponder, 140 (could swap 10pts fro the shield but wysiwyg says no.....)

5 Tartorus tda, 2 pairs lC, serg gh, heavy flamer, transponder 247

Damocles command rhino 100

Contemptor Mortis, two Kheres 180

3 x Jav speeders, 2HK, MM, TLLC 255

10 Hvy Bolters, HA, serg AUG, rhino 300 to be used as a tac squad but with 30 s5 shots every turn....

5 MLs SERG aug, rhino 200

Predator, sponson lascannons 115

comes to 2007 pts so needs 10pts swapped out, will prob opt to lose 1 set of lightning claws for this.

would have a fort built of the bolters, MLs, Mortis and command rhino, before using the 24"deepstrike bubble to call in the termie squads on point without scatter and if needed the jav speeders too, if they dont out flank.

shame as it doesn't use all the spares i have but should be decently competetitive against anything but the most beardey players.

[Slips]

From my experience and for my needs, Hammerfall is worthless.

 

It looks interesting on paper but in practice you have no real reserves manipulation (all vehicles in reserves, no fortifications), and the incentive to deepstriking infantry (shrouded and blind) is not woth the risk and barely comes into play if at all.

 

Id rather have all my tanks on the board T1 moving 12" where necessary.

 

Id also never deepstrike an Assault Unit unless it was in a dreadclaw or kharybdis for a T1 DPA drop and thus a T2 Charge. I'd actually never run an Assault unit without a transport.

 

Deepstriking Terminators is fine but I'd give them Combi-Weapons and Power Axes and Cataphractii with no character. Drop them in an Nuke something.

 

If I want them in combat, Land Raider/Spartan/Dreadclaw/Kharybdis and other assault vehicles 100% of the time.

[The laughing raven]

Seems rather lack lustre after seeing The Creeping Death the death guard get for example.....

Was wondering though if it could be an interesting way to get tank hunting heavies into a nifty spot and giving them a nice cover save to see them hopefully get a second round of killydeath time, port two sets of Hvy & tac to an objective either side of a board and then run tanks up the middle such as predators for example?

 

Had thought it would be rather nice way not to pay 200+pts to transport phalanx wardens but they now seem far too over priced to even contemplate as a unit now, 55pts to get +1ws and access to plasma guns & power axes, the latter I am not greatly keen on for the cost.

 

Only have the BaC models so no combi weapons, but would happily swap to all plasma ;) the Medicae was also I could use the conversion from the tad IC from the box, how would I post a pic on here?

 

Was thinking to avoid assaults with the fists and play a much more defensive game as this is what would seem fluffy ( although having played space crusade the other day I wish that IF could get suspensors and have free moving heavies), but can see what you mean I am saving for a spartan for my Al list.

[Slips]

Heres the problem with DSing HSS's : They snapshoot since deepstriking counts as moving. Then, on your opponent's turn, they subsequently disappear or are greatly diminished.

If you drop them into terrain you risk losing a few to dangerous terrain anyways and if they're in the open, they have a 5+ Cover Save which is meh.

 

And then your Tanks come on from your board edge meaning they probably don't have any LoS or Fire Arcs when they arrive meaning they're ineffective for roughly 1-2 turns (reserves and unable to shoot). I'd rather have them on T1 and be effective right away.

 

For Phalanx Warders, Power Axes are the best they can possibly get alongside Plasma Guns though I'd prefer to have the option for power swords too. It means they can actually hang with Terminators in CC since weapons in those combats are usually Ap2 anyways so they fall back onto their Boarding Shields 5++ They're now disappointingly expensive but I'd rather have them than regular breachers since at least they can punch back hard enough in CC to matter. And Plasma Guns.

 

Use a Photo Hosting Site like Photobucket, Imgur or upload to your personal gallery on here.

 

If you're using TDA and NOT taking Storm Shields, imo, don't even bother with Tartaros. Stick to Cataphractii for the 4++. The only interest IF have in taking Tartaros is: 3++ from Storm Shields AND being able to Sweep and Run. Otherwise, the 5++ vs 4++ is not worth it.

 

+++

 

I personally play Aggro Fists and run something like this in most scenarios at our standard of 3.5k

 

 

+++ Imperial Fists Updated (Warhammer 30,000 - The Horus Heresy v36) (3500pts) +++

 

++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List v102) (829pts) ++

 

+ HQ (485pts) +

 

····Legion Centurion (150pts) [Cyber-familiar, Melta Bombs, Artificer Armour, Rad Grenades, Refractor Field, Solarite Power Gauntlet]

······Consul

········Forge Lord [Father to the Brethren of Iron]

 

····Legion Centurion (145pts) [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Refractor Field, Solarite Power Gauntlet]

······Consul

········Primus Medicae [support Officer]

 

····Rogal Dorn (385pts) [Master of the Legion, Primarch]

 

+ Elites +

 

····Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (315pts) [Dreadnought Talon]

······Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Graviton Gun, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod]

 

····Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (300pts) [Dreadnought Talon]

······Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Graviton Gun, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Plasma Cannon]

 

+ Troops (159pts) +

 

····Legion Terminator Squad (885pts) [Chainfist, Legion Terminator Squad, 9x Legion Terminators, Power Fist, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Thunderhammer, 9x Vigil Pattern Storm Shield]

······Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield]

······Legion Terminator Sergeant [Thunderhammer, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield]

 

····Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (310pts) [2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Veteran Tactical Squad, Legion Vexilla, Marksmen, Melta Bombs, Nuncio-Vox]

······Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Dozer Blade]

······Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist]

 

····Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (310pts) [2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Veteran Tactical Squad, Legion Vexilla, Marksmen, Melta Bombs, Nuncio-Vox]

······Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Dozer Blade]

······Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist]

 

+ Heavy Support (185pts) +

 

····Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (275pts) [Aiolos Missile Launcher, Armoured Ceramite, Single twin-linked Hellfire Plasma Cannonade]

 

····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (425pts)

······Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Cyclonic Melta Lance, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Phosphex Discharger]

 

+ Legion +

 

····Legiones Astartes [   VII: Imperial Fists, Loyalist]

 

····Rite of War [Primarch's Chosen]

 

+ Force Organization +

 

····Force Organization [Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List]

······Battles in the Age of Darkness [ Age of Darkness Primary Detachment]

 

Created with BattleScribe

 

This is the basic framework for what I usually play though I usually change up my HQ's depending on what I feel like playing that day alongside the Terminator squad in the Spartan.

 

The Deredeo has the Hellfire and Armoured Ceramite only to simulate the points costs for their New Lascannon option which isn't currently in Battlescribe.

[The laughing raven]

hmmm, well can see why you say don't do it, but there must be a way to make the rite effective? really don't like taking the standard pride lists that swamp the army list forums, seems like a cop out when given all the posible options....

 

was wondering whether creating a deep strike detachment of warders, hss, and a termies to take over the enemy deployment zone whilst hanging back with a couple of tac squads to grab objectives.

 

my possible options for creating a list are:

 

primus medicae in tda 140

forgelord 165

 

contemptor 205

quad launcher 80

vet tac squad hb ml 205

5 termies cfs iac 255

5 termies 247

 

10 breachers/warders 300/365

10 tac marines 200

5 Tss flamers with 2ccw 120

 

10 hvy bolters 275

5 MLs 180

 

vehicle options are;

 

2 rhinos

1landraider

1 Predator

3 land speeders

 

these are all painted as Alpha legion though hence my intrigue in the Hammerfall rite as it means i can keep the army all yellow.

also I am restricted to 2500pts at most a game and generally just play 2000pts, as that is what the club standard is live to far out in the sticks to get regular opponents of higher points :'~(

 

as for uploading to personal gallery, I am stumped as I am pretty much technologically retarded?

 

Also trying to think of what model i could convert a Dorn model from, what have you used for this?

[Slips]

If you want deepstriking infantry, Orbital Assault already does it a million times better than Hammerfall.

 

Though it means no tanks.

[The laughing raven]

Well as you can see from my selection tanks are in very short supply so will check the new rules foir the rite when home, but think it will have to be one of the two to make full use of the models i have spare for IF.

[Slips]

Honestly, IF are generic enough that we can make any RoW work given some effort and even do pretty well without RoWs ( I don't use one when rolling with Dorn unless I need Elite Slots).

 

So, at the end of the day, try stuff out and find what works for you. I mostly post about what I post because that what works for me.

 

As for Dorn, a Friend Kitbashed one for me.

[The laughing raven]

This is why I opted for them in that they have a more universal playstyle and don't have to rely on special units to carry the day for them.

 

Have been thinking on the rite and have made a provisional list to test in sundays game;

 

Praetor, TDA, para blade, vigil sh, digis, gh, te tr, 205

6 x termies, 6 CFs, IAC, Te Tr. 290

 

2 x 10 Warders; 2 x PA, 2 x Pl G, V & v, Serg, AA, TH, MB, Te Tr. 375 x 2 = 750

 

3 x Jav speeders, 2 HKs, MM, TLLC, 85 x 3 =255

 

10 x Hvy Bolters, serg AA, Aug. 250

 

So this comes to 1750 pts and leaves 3 options to fill the last 250pts; 

 

A) Forgelord  & 5 tss with flamers & 2 ccw, tele tr 250pts

 

B) 10 Veterans, V & V, HB & ML, serg AA, Plas pist; 250pts

 

C) 5 Lascannons serg AA, Aug, 250 pts

 

the two options not used would become the 2500pts when i find an opponent to go that high.

 

The plan (as much as plans can be made...) is to set up just the heavy bolters and either option B or C in cover and fairly hidden to draw the opponent into stretching out towards them before teleporting the warders, termies and option A into one corner of the enemy deployment zone and hopefully outflank the speeders down the same side so they can deal with any AV values that the termies can't get into charge range of, hoping the turn of shrouding with the invuln saves should keep them alive and hiopefully bait them into charging and tar pitting themselves on the warders before the termies and flamers counter attack.

 

would appreciate any tips from regular users of this rite if there are any?

[Slips]

If you're hammerfalling, just make sure that you have enough stuff on the board that can weather your opponents T1 firing (and T2 if going 2nd)

 

Thats going to be crucial to you being able to win.

 

TBH, I'd go for the Vets but ditch the plasma pistol and take a fist instead or Lascannons since you want ranged AT.

 

Drop 1 Termie from the 6 man squad and get your HSS Sarge an Augury Scanner to deny infiltrate and to intercept deep strikers, get the Vets a Teleportation Transponder (so that they have the option to use it if needed) and Melta Bombs if you can fit it. I'd personally take 2x the same Heavy/Special.

 

As for how you want to play this: if you don't have first turn, don't take too big of a risk with deep striking, stick to cover, and try to only drop within nuncio-vox range.

[The laughing raven]

Aye that is plan, basically hide the HB and second unit out of view of enemy deployment and in position to shoot at stuff that tries to find them and once the enemy has started playing cat we drop the rest on them from behind,

 

the HB serg has an aug already i see those as pre req when choosing forces. if i was giving the vets a trans ponder i would swap another back out so i have enough to stay on the board....

The serg has a plas pistol as i love the old metal model i found from forgeworld so didn't have the heart to convert it! Veterans don't have an option for las cannons and also the Medicae with vigil shield is out from before as they aren't allowed shields.

 

yes plan is drop one warder squad at front then use them to bring the others in using the vox and hide them before moveing them and the other squads out as a shield wall, with the speeders whipping over head :)

we shall see sundays game against the Orks goes...