The laughing raven Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 have found three landspeeders on ebay cheap and with the points drop for them and hk missiles thought it could make an interesting squad having read the "popcorn units" thread, was wondering what results people have had using different loadouts and which units combine with them well, I personally play AL and IF so any insights would be great :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Normal land speeders get an amazing niche in acess to Grav guns. You just need to keep them alive first! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 can they still use the grav gun if they've jinked? excuse the noob questions but only swapped to hh from wfb when aod killed the game so still on catch up :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 As it is a blast weapon, no they cannot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 would you say the extra 10pts is worth it for that or would you take 2 hk missiles for the same price (I assume they can still be used after jink)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Assured vehicular destruction for that one turn I'd put the HK on. I've taken 5 with grav, so if I wanted stuff really dead I'd give them a HK each. Also might be worth looking at the javelin as an option Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 would you say the extra 10pts is worth it for that or would you take 2 hk missiles for the same price (I assume they can still be used after jink)?If ya jink you only make Snapshots. I wouldn't recomand shooting with your missles after jinking. Just deep strike that unit and shoot. Works for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 They are a fire and forget unit really. Deep striking them with no scatter (from a Damocles etc) equipped with Grav Guns means you have a pretty big threat bubble to hunt big game AV. You probably won't survive the return fire, but they can harm a lot more than their cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 so do people just run them with the grav gun or do they take a second weapon like multi melta for exmple or just run one or the other? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Personal Preference really. MM is nice for hurting the heavy armour, but it's best to stick to their niche which is grav. MM/ Hunter Killers and a Cyclone are the tools of the Javelin Speeder, which uses those better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 may have to proxy the speeders till my other wishlists are bought, have quite a list... for reliabilities sake (as in survived past the deep strike and initial return fire) what would be the more versatile options or load out for the baby speeders or are they literally just av hunters and best kept popcorn or has anybody been able to build lists around their usage? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I had actually picked up a trio of Javelin speeders w/ lascannons just before the new red book drop. Along with the baby speeders, the Javs got pretty badass too. 55pts, -2 to hit them in melee and strafing run for BS5 on everything that isn't a speeder or flyer. I'm going to try them out with twin lascannons and multimeltas. It should be a pretty awesome platform for getting anti-armor work done. The amount of fire they lay down with two hunter killers each is pretty impressive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Totally forgot about the Strafing run! Javelins are mad good now. Glad I'm running the old metal speeders as them :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 may have to proxy the speeders till my other wishlists are bought, have quite a list... for reliabilities sake (as in survived past the deep strike and initial return fire) what would be the more versatile options or load out for the baby speeders or are they literally just av hunters and best kept popcorn or has anybody been able to build lists around their usage? Grav and 1-2 Hunterkillers is best IMO. Keeps them cheap and you can fire a couple as insurance. 3 Land speeders and 3 hk is only 180 and can threaten a wide variety of armour. If you see a lot of knights going up to 6 HK for 195 is also a good choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Totally forgot about the Strafing run! Javelins are mad good now. Glad I'm running the old metal speeders as them Yeah man. And only 85pts for a fully loaded one w/ las, melta and 2 hks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Totally forgot about the Strafing run! Javelins are mad good now. Glad I'm running the old metal speeders as them Yeah man. And only 85pts for a fully loaded one w/ las, melta and 2 hks. Though a side note: this is the definitive variation for "you see that? I want it dead" and with a squadron of 3 that is very likely You can still rock the cyclones for literally hammering at the hull points til it falls over if points needs saving. 5 str 8 shots at bs 5 each on the first payload it's nothing to be sniffed at. So take a full squad that's 15 dice to pummel something to death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Totally forgot about the Strafing run! Javelins are mad good now. Glad I'm running the old metal speeders as them Yeah man. And only 85pts for a fully loaded one w/ las, melta and 2 hks. Though a side note: this is the definitive variation for "you see that? I want it dead" and with a squadron of 3 that is very likely You can still rock the cyclones for literally hammering at the hull points til it falls over if points needs saving. 5 str 8 shots at bs 5 each on the first payload it's nothing to be sniffed at. So take a full squad that's 15 dice to pummel something to death. I think the CML is the best option. Now that the tanks have been brought up to 7th edition costs it makes sense to try and hull them out rather than 1 shot them. Speeders have the speed to hit rear armour. The only case I can see for lascannons is if you for example happen to live in a Spartan heavy meta. but up to 6 missiles a speeder over 2 turns seems much better per speeder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I've been useing a pair of Javelins before their update with multimeltas, CMLs, and HKs and they put out a lot of hurt...with straffing run it will be even nastier. They always die though...always...but now they are cheap as hell so it seems like a good trade. Though, if i were building them again i might got lascannons over CMLs due to BS5 (the CMLs are twin-linked), but still, both are good options. The best thing about the Javs, imo, is their deployment flexibility...they can deep strike, out flank, or set up where you want and zip around. Its basically impossible to hide from them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 So having checked both the points for a fully kitted out speeder of either type is 85pts; legion landspeeder + grav + multi melta + 2 HKs. or javelin speeder + mm +TLlas + 2 HKs. but with the jav you get +1 AV, strafing run, -2 to hit in assault and out flank for the same cost, so seems a no brainer to always run javs in that case unless you want real popcorn units as a diversion with legion speeders just stripped down to grav gun then? So in that case then the main question would be is it better to run three stripped down popcorn speeder or 2 tooled up javs? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 ^The extra bit Javelins have going for them, that will always make them superior for me is front and side armor 11. Meaning they can't be rapid fire boltgunned to death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 That is definitely the main reson I am now going to run them seems they have more autonomy that way and can be relied upon a lot more, also the only real attraction for the popspeeders is the grav option but that seems rather less useful seeing as its scatters and can't be used if you've jinked so is pretty lacklustre in that respect... so next question is does it work better to just treat them as anti AV and load up the lascannons or is it best to stay versatile with the missiles and use the melta & hk as the main AV burster and have a bit more anti infantry? The nextquestion after this then is which units work best with them and what sneaky tactics apart from the deepstrike and melt attack? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Keep in mind the missiles can shoot S8 krak also, so they are just as good as pinging hull points as the HKs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4446993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Keep in mind the missiles can shoot S8 krak also, so they are just as good as pinging hull points as the HKs. If anything that is the main use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4447003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 So in that case for 225pts you get 9 s8 ap2 missiles and 3 s8 melta shots, compared to 255pts for 3 grav, 3 melta & 3hks, seems a lot more efficient and only worth upgrading to lascannon if you are facing the spartans as Baluc has stated. so do people use them as stand alone strikers acting autonomously or do they run them in conjunction with another unit/s? I am thinking to use them to soften up a target before dropping my destroyers on them, question is do i wait for a deepstrike or just use the extra move from the jps to chase after the speeders and ensure they are on the board, was also thinking if used in conjunction with a tac squad in rhino and a predator, would come in at around 450pts depending on vehicle upgrades for pred (prob anti infantry flamers). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4447015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I don't think taking the melta on the Landspeeder is ever worth it, unless its your main weapon. The comparison should really be: 4x Landspeeders w/ 4 graviton guns and 8 hunter killers = 260 or 2-3 x Javelin w/ cml and 2 HKM each = 130 - 195 In a meta with a lot of FA 14 the Speeders win out IMO, 40" grav range is significant. In almost every other meta Javelins would be better. But to be honest you could probably get away with either unit and 1 in 5 games you will wish you had the opposite unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/#findComment-4447043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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