Flint13 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I don't think taking the melta on the Landspeeder is ever worth it, unless its your main weapon. I'm curious to your reasoning there. It seems like such an awesome bargain for 10pts. Plus speeders have the maneuverability to get themselves to melta range a lot more easily than many other platforms. At absolute worst, its one more str8 shot to add in to the missile barrage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 With AP1 no less, so can actually explode AV13 and worse (with ceramite for some reason, like a Leviathan). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I don't think taking the melta on the Landspeeder is ever worth it, unless its your main weapon. I'm curious to your reasoning there. It seems like such an awesome bargain for 10pts. Plus speeders have the maneuverability to get themselves to melta range a lot more easily than many other platforms. At absolute worst, its one more str8 shot to add in to the missile barrage. Cost mostly, but also range bands and choice of damage types. First shooting phase can just be 2 HKs, and then you are jetting around shooting off graviton templates. With Grav you are looking to hull out vehicles, extra missiles adds to this. With melta you are looking to pen and get a damage result. Speeders are so fragile that you are going cover to cover for the most part, Adding a multimelta increases the chances of making poor choices for long shots. Adding MM on 3 is almost the cost of a 4th. At 4K it might not seem like much but adding luxury upgrades here and there adds up quickly at 3k and lower. Also the HB isn't a bad option to have on hand for killing ironically other land speeders. Then you get into non-combat roles. Like denying objectives, blocking vehicles from moving etc. All roles you can use your speeders to fill because once the HK are fired the threat level drops significantly. Its like a Lightning you can buy it more guns after the Krakens but if dude is spending time shooting your flyer with one lascannon instead of your sicaran or dreadclaw you are happy with that trade. Its the careful balance of point spreads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 Melta choice for me is due to wysiwyg as thats what ebay provided, although I think if staying with them i'd keep the mm just for being able to jink and shoot still, but can see where you come from the extra speeder making up for the lost av point on the othrs. Hvaing read another article on speeder use (using the scout transport speeders squadron) I think would be useful to create a similar mini detachment of my forces how would this best be acheived without spending 210+pts on a storm eagle? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Melta choice for me is due to wysiwyg as thats what ebay provided, although I think if staying with them i'd keep the mm just for being able to jink and shoot still, but can see where you come from the extra speeder making up for the lost av point on the othrs. Hvaing read another article on speeder use (using the scout transport speeders squadron) I think would be useful to create a similar mini detachment of my forces how would this best be acheived without spending 210+pts on a storm eagle? You are probably looking at Dreadclaws... or Skyhunter and Jetbikes. When it comes to jinking and shooting, I think the best practice is to decide before you finish your movement phase if you are in a position where you can jink or if you need to shoot next turn. Taking the MM so you can jink and shoot a weapon on 6s seems... subpar, considering you can just shoot the HB with 3 shots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Since the Javs can outflank and deep strike, i dont think you should really worry about not getting into range with the multi-melta...for 10pts it seems like a no brainer over the heavy bolter/flamer option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Since the Javs can outflank and deep strike, i dont think you should really worry about not getting into range with the multi-melta...for 10pts it seems like a no brainer over the heavy bolter/flamer option. If you are outflanking I would take 2 with multimelta and lascannons for 150 pts but outflank carries its own risks. 1/3 chance of being at the wrong place all together. But with only 2 weapons to fire moving 12" is never a bad option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Cost mostly, but also range bands and choice of damage types. First shooting phase can just be 2 HKs, and then you are jetting around shooting off graviton templates. With Grav you are looking to hull out vehicles, extra missiles adds to this. With melta you are looking to pen and get a damage result. Speeders are so fragile that you are going cover to cover for the most part, Adding a multimelta increases the chances of making poor choices for long shots. Adding MM on 3 is almost the cost of a 4th. At 4K it might not seem like much but adding luxury upgrades here and there adds up quickly at 3k and lower. Also the HB isn't a bad option to have on hand for killing ironically other land speeders. Then you get into non-combat roles. Like denying objectives, blocking vehicles from moving etc. All roles you can use your speeders to fill because once the HK are fired the threat level drops significantly. Its like a Lightning you can buy it more guns after the Krakens but if dude is spending time shooting your flyer with one lascannon instead of your sicaran or dreadclaw you are happy with that trade. Its the careful balance of point spreads. All good theory, but in practice none of this ever happens. Hyper mobile grav guns are never a low priority threat, especially when they can be dealt with by bolters. You can't shoot them if you jink, and if you don't the unit evaporates. Cover can be difficult to acquire with proper length flight bases and an 18" range. Your previous comparison with Javelins is also way off given the cost disparity. They are stupid bonkers cheap now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 i feel like i wanna do the las cannons and a multi melta on javelins but everyone so hype about missles that I am a bit torn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Take a unit of each. FA slots are plentiful and they are cheap as chips. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 How many javelins would you stick in a unit 2 or 3 ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 However many you can fit in the list. Eaxh one adds another volley of Hunter Killers and other weapons. Only problem then is the more you have the more vulnerable you are to massed damage results if you get me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 what are the thoughts on running both types together as in 1jav las speeder with 2 grav &flamer speeders all with Hk missiles would be 215pts worth of nuisance and major AV threat that can split its fire without breaking the bank in 3000 or less games? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Sure why not. They will get targeted pretty rapidly though, but at least provide a nice saturation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 That's what I was thinking but that's still three units worth of fire to get all three down and at 65pts (ave) is perfect chaff while the rest of the army gets ready for the turn 2 Alpha strike. Was wondering would they be affected by the Alpha legions mutable tactics or more specifically the scout/infiltrate rules although tank hunter would be something else on a javelin, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 As they do not have the Legiones Astartes Rules they will not be affect by mutable tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 had thought that would be the case, but shame, we can but dream :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4447689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 one other nice thing with the CMLs, since they are twin linked you have a little built in mitigation to shooting after jinking that you don't have the with lascannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4448077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 one other nice thing with the CMLs, since they are twin linked you have a little built in mitigation to shooting after jinking that you don't have the with lascannons. A Javelin has a TLLC not 2 singular lascannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4448083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Two lascannons for 10 points would have been an open and shut case lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4448125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 one other nice thing with the CMLs, since they are twin linked you have a little built in mitigation to shooting after jinking that you don't have the with lascannons. A Javelin has a TLLC not 2 singular lascannons. Oh for real? I must have missed that in the book, plus it's not modeled that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4448281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 one other nice thing with the CMLs, since they are twin linked you have a little built in mitigation to shooting after jinking that you don't have the with lascannons.A Javelin has a TLLC not 2 singular lascannons. Oh for real? I must have missed that in the book, plus it's not modeled that way. Its been that way from the get go ahahahaha! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4448283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Well :cuss, lol, I may have thought harder about it before buying the CML models if I had noticed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4448284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Don't feel bad, Guilty. It's literally the exact same thing that happened to me :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4448303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The laughing raven Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 Well used 3 Java speeders in this mornings game (40k tau player) took out 3 broadside suits, a devil fish, an imperial assassin and a Took first four wounds from a storm surgeover the course of a game and still had one left at end of the game! Very pleased, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324039-use-of-land-speeders/page/2/#findComment-4449410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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