major higgins Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Hi Brothers, Yesterday I tested a unit of the new Veterans. I run 10 of them in a Rhino with Missile Lunchers, power sword and a melta bomb, a unit able to deal against almost every target my usual friends put on the table. Although they worked very poorely in the shooting phase and in the assault phase too. I saw them far to be useless, but a little expensive for what they can do on the table. After then, searching on the book, I see the new Seekers squad and I start to comparate them, with my mind on the table and not only as a paperwork. Veterans now have their abilities changed, but the only two really usefull are Outflank and Sniper and the +1 against Vehicles with their ranged weapons Seekers have BS5, have implacable advance (so scoring units), have special ammo options, precision strike and Marked for death. This means that they can still choose their target if they roll sixes. They'll put, on average, more bullets on the target and if they don't move, they can chose rending ammo (if I really need it). But they can saturate massed enemy with 10 small blast or get enemy 30" away too. Not to speak that for taking sniper I HAVE TO outflank, and this means that they start the game in reserve and may come from the wrong side of the table. Last but not the least they free me an elite slot which allow me to split my quad mortars for maximize my Iron Fire rite of war. All in all for almost the same price (20 points more) I can deploy a better solution than a veteran squad. But I'm open to suggestion and to ready to listen to your opinion on the matter Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Outflank is not mandatory if you have the rule it is useful to have as I've seen Ninjaman's veterans make good use of the rule to come in and mess up backline artillery or heavy weapons teams plus wounding big guys on 4+ and possible ap2 hits is beautiful Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4451767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Veterans need to specialise. By the sounds of it you didn't really go for that, and you've the three options. Go all for combat for +1 ws skill and tool them aptly. Will give most things a kicking. Tank hunting: combi melta and missile launchers doesn't matter if something has armoured ceramite, you've got plus one to pen and a lot of ap 1. To be used in conjunction with something else as it's kind of a single strike unit, and after you've popped the melta you need to be aiming for lighter vehicles with the ML. Can still move and shoot and assault after if you must thanks to the suspensor web. Third option is the outflanking sniper. Pick any combi weapon to suit. Flamers are fun. Go find something to kill that might be tough for other things in your army to deal with. Seekers should be kept for specialist death dealing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4451773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Seekers have BS5, have implacable advance (so scoring units), have special ammo options, precision strike and Marked for death. This means that they can still choose their target if they roll sixes. They'll put, on average, more bullets on the target and if they don't move, they can chose rending ammo (if I really need it). But they can saturate massed enemy with 10 small blast or get enemy 30" away too. Not to speak that for taking sniper I HAVE TO outflank, and this means that they start the game in reserve and may come from the wrong side of the table. 1. Sniper gives you precision shots too. 2. Scorpius is no longer rending but S5 AP2 shred 3. You don't have to outflank. It's optional. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4451796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Vets are cheaper. If you have the points I'd take seekers, lacking points it'd be vets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4451816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Scorpius bolts threaten Primarchs, Seeker got a major buff in the updated book Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4452608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 While Scorpius bolts are more consistent, they lost their ability to glance up to Av13 (S4+D6+D3 rend) in the hilariously unlikely scenario that it would happen. Still, S5 Ap2 Shred is pretty awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4452635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
major higgins Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 While Scorpius bolts are more consistent, they lost their ability to glance up to Av13 (S4+D6+D3 rend) in the hilariously unlikely scenario that it would happen. Still, S5 Ap2 Shred is pretty awesome. ok, but i run Iron Warriors, I have no problem against vehicles with 29 shot per round str8 and with Tank Hunter. What I lack insteed is AP2 weapon and this new bolt is like butter on my bread Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4452662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I mean, we've always had access to Plasma Gun TSS SOOOOOOOOOOOOO......yeah, its not like this change is that amazing. As someone who uses seekers, its a nice change and I do enjoy BS6 (7 if I run an MoS, 8 if I ever take a Djinn Skein Archmagos Ally) S5 Ap2 Shred Shots but losing the Rending Potential in favour of consistency? Thats a personal thing since Preferred Enemy Combi-Plas is a thing they've been doing for a while. Having the option to potentially glance Av13 on the side was a nice niche benefit for an otherwise anti-infantry only unit. Which is what I was getting at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4452669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I both love and hate fists for their bolter perks... There's nothing stopping you taking combi melta either if you needed to bust something open. Str 8 ap 1 at bs 5 is useful for HP stripping or blowing things up. Obviously not intended purpose, and you're probably better off using vets for that but it's still an option if you need the elites slot open Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4452674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 While Scorpius bolts are more consistent, they lost their ability to glance up to Av13 (S4+D6+D3 rend) in the hilariously unlikely scenario that it would happen. Still, S5 Ap2 Shred is pretty awesome. ok, but i run Iron Warriors, I have no problem against vehicles with 29 shot per round str8 and with Tank Hunter. What I lack insteed is AP2 weapon and this new bolt is like butter on my bread What from? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4452689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeyladbfp Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 vets vs seekers.. hmm... I honestly think they vare both made of win, but id personally run bare bones seekers (ravenguard so they infiltrate) and just deploy in cover on the flank raining down the shots like a good un. Vets are really dependant on which rite you take, but snipers and 50/50 combis and a splattering of power weapons seems a winner. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4452700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 The new veterans are way too good. A full squad of 10 costs less than a squad of seekers and now also gets combi weapons. Not to mention outflank. Mathhammering it out, 20 rapid fire sniper bolters will put on the same number of wounds as 5 seekers shooting AP2 bolters. With preferred enemy, the seekers edge out (4.3 vs 3.7). The main issue though is transportation and survivability. The veterans can outflank, are twice as durable, and can defend themselves in melee. Seekers need a ride, character, or ROW to really work well and will probably get nuked in short order. If you go with a full squad, they cost 100 points more than the veterans. Throw combi weapons and other gear ontop and you have yourself a very expensive unit. I really like the new seekers and am modeling some up, but it's really hard to compare them against veterans. They just got too many buffs and are the gold standard for value when it comes to troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4452946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 5 vet tacs in a outflanking rhino with combi meltas is the closest you are going to get to a meltacide squad outside of orbital assault. Seekers are so much more expensive, and while there is benefits, there is no way to make them troops like there are vet tacs, and Seekers are a little bit more scary for people and slide up the priority list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4452967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic63 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Seekers work best for the legions that have Infiltrate/Scout to move them into a nice position to start laying down the Scorpius Bolts... everyone else is tempted to take a Vigilator but this increases the cost of the unit quite substantially. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4459009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 What does the Vigilator do for Seekers ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4468830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Scout, Stealth and he has special ammo too. IMO he's the best Consul, followed by Forge Lord and Siege Breaker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4468848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Thing with the veterans is, pick a load out and run with it. Don't try to make them generic. Giving them missile launchers and a couple of power weapons then going for +1WS is pointless. In a PotL/Chosen Duty list you have the luxury of mixing and matching but don't have one unit trying to do it all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4469206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Where is the update/new version? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4469363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 New ree Legion army list book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4469364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I only got the red books just before Christmas :P Didn't think they would be made so obsolete so soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4469484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Don't feel bad, I still see people buying the old Crusade book for $50-60 on eBay. People don't do their research, so you'll have lots of company in the regret box. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4469524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I can see Seekers coming into their own now... They got some major buffs. Definitely a unit I want to explore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4469877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 S5 AP2 Shred ammo is just brutal! Getting in range to use it is quite hard however and they are just PA doodz. For backline defence though, an attached Apothecary with Auguary Scanner could make for some nasty interception! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4470402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Shred? Is that confirmed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324229-veterans-vs-seekers/#findComment-4471769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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