Take all comers list

[Sanguine Rose]

I'm trying to build an 1850 take all comers list to start a collection. I like the idea of a combined wing, but I can't figure out how to do each wing justice and make a functioning army. I don't need competitive or cheesy, just something to play and put up a good fight against most other armies. Amy suggestions?

 

If it helps, I will be running Deathwing Knights because the models look awesome. I wish I had a tactical reason, but I don't.

[aura_enchanted]

I'm trying to build an 1850 take all comers list to start a collection. I like the idea of a combined wing, but I can't figure out how to do each wing justice and make a functioning army. I don't need competitive or cheesy, just something to play and put up a good fight against most other armies. Amy suggestions?

 

If it helps, I will be running Deathwing Knights because the models look awesome. I wish I had a tactical reason, but I don't.

i actually have one, i even give you about 680 points of play in it that i run. i find that with multi-wings; with deathwings especially a firm foundations of good ol 3+ save power armour is the best way, im not saying ravens as your base cant work im saying they are the most stable, the ravens will fluctuate between being very good or absolutely inappropriate for the battle at hand and will be largely ineffectual. ravens also operate at a totally different speed then terminators do, by that i mean ravens take their turns very fluidly, they transition between movement and the forms of combat and so on very quickly and can cross a table quickly, where deathwing are the opposite practically stationary is there area of influence and they clumsily get through a game turn. so green marines are more there speed.

 

however this list i fashioned, i did so under the pretext of the allied detachment im using being the focus, not the terminators or the bikes in it, if you want to cut the allies out and take more of those by all means the floor is yours.

 

heres what i did with 2500 points:

 

Dark Angels with raven guard 2500:

 

CAD (1790)

 

hq:

librarian, tda, level 2, shroud of heroes (125)

 

troops:

1x7 scouts, bolters, heavy bolter with hellfire shells (90)

1x10 tacticals, multi-melta, melta gun, rhino (195)

1x5 tacticals, razorback, combi-grav, plasma gun (150)

 

Fast:

 darkshroud (80)

1x6 ravenwing bikers, melta gun, melta bomb (185)

 

elite:

1x5 deathwing knights (235)

dedicated land raider crusader (250)

 

heavy:

1x5 devestators, 2 lascannons, 2 missle, armourium cherub (145)

vindicator laser destroyer (130)

deredeo dreadnaught, autocannons, aelios missle launcher (220)

 

ravenhawk assault group (685)

 

contempor dreadnaught (170)

sternguard veterans squad, 1 combi flamer, power fist sgt , multi-melta, melta gun, 5 extra marines(290)

stormraven gunship, hurricane bolters,  locator beacon(235)

 

basically the idea is that the deathwing lock up with someone to establish a line of skirmish, the ravenwing follow them in and if the dice behave the ravenhawk drops in and suddenly i have effectively drawn a line of battle that will smash whatever is standing directly in front of it with gunfire and clubs and it forces the enemy to react. if the deathwing go unopposed because the enemy has dismissed them as a threat because their terminators and non issue, the ravenhawk either fights backline fires or drops in and deletes something important to run the timer. the ravens go where there needed basically and everything revolves around the fact that they will need to be doing that at some point. the ravenhawk would actually go very well with an RWSF as much as i loath to admit it because how well they do that very job.

 

the deredeo forgeworld dread is the 10 dollar solution to the 230000 problem of dark angels just sucking at fighting enemy planes and it was that or the land raider excelsior which gets people mad jelly, because i own one and they dont want to spend 200 dollars on tanks via ebay. he also serves as light anti tank and massive dice to dump on someones head, i mean hes basically a heavy 10 s7 weapons platform with twin linked, he is adequate for almost anything. i could make the point of the ravenhawk plane being anti-air too technically but the deredeo is so good at his flakk cannon job he might as well start a youtube compilation video series about all the things its killed today on various tables around the globe. in a world of s7 and s6 flakk guns his s8 autocannons claim all the turf they want.

 

the deimos with the devestators are there to start off the anti-tank show, with the close air 3 multi meltas of the ravenhawk on call to supplement them i also have melta and grav in the tacticals to again supplement a lack of more lascannon or demolishers. though with the deimos'es ap1 twin linked ordanance 3 its often a case of them priming the next target for him to bore a 6" hole through or finishing off his table scraps. the deimos is a tank sniper extraordinaire. i once had a game against a guard army that left him alone because he thought he could target saturate him, he accounted for 6 leman russ in a single sitting. at the cost 2 tactical squads and a drop pod, it was outrageous

 

the tacticals and scouts are there mostly to be a nuisance and to keep infantry heavy armies on their toes, and give them more targets to shoot at and dispatch, the use of drop pods over rhinos is ideal, but i can see a case made for 1 of each or 2 rhinos instead.

 

librarian is there to provide a deny the witch supporter or a bit of power dice against a less magically inclined army.

[Solrac]

If you are just starting out your collection it's probably a good idea for you to start wit ha CAD so you can take your favourite units. You can also build the CAD around your Deathwing Knights and still make a pretty good all comers list.

[SnakeChisler]

Deathwing Knights are awesome

 

Take Ezekiel as your HQ and get to know his buffs and quirks, 3 drop pods for some alternate delivery mechanisms in a CAD

 

A demi + Deathwing Aux

Knights

Dread + Pod

HQ (Interogator or Librarian)

 

Ravenwing Strike Force + Deathwing strike force

 

If your getting some Greenwing they need transport

 

When I've gotten the most out of my Knights it's been by dropping them in a pod 1St turn then linking them with a HQ on disembarkation, random rolling is a pain and these days they need to be on the board asap with support.

[ValourousHeart]

It has been my experence that the "All Comers" list is a unicorn.... By that I mean it doesn't exist.

 

There is no list that can go from one game facing everything in landraiders and 2+/3++ to the next game where you face nothing but the maximum number of Ork boys (no vehicles) at that point level. And this goes for any 2 extremes that you want to compare.

 

The idea of the "All Comers" list is based on the narrow field of what you will typically face at a tournament. And that field eliminates about 75-85% of all the options available. If you give an honest appraisal of the top tournament armies, you will discover that each of them has a hard counter, but that the missions, objectives, time limit or other parameters of the tournament made that hard counter not viable at that tournament.

 

So with that understanding it is possible to build an "All Comers" list for a very specific meta. But without defining that specific meta in advance, there is no way to suggest a list that doesn't have a hard counter. And I think it is safe to say that any list with a hard counter, fails the basic test of an "All Comers" list.

 

But as for my suggestions on how to get to a 1850 list, that you are happy with, and enjoy playing... Then I suggest that you start with an escalation format. Build a 500 point list without any format restrictions that include all the models that you feel are MUST HAVES in your collection. Play a couple of games with that list... And start to figure out what you have trouble dealing with or that doesn't play the way you imagined it would. From here you will build up your force 250 to 500 points at a time.

 

As you build your collection to 1000 points, add in units that make the army valid... This used to mean 1 HQ and 2 Troops, but with formations that isn't cut and dry any more. Play a couple more games and reassess difficulties, trip ups and the overall play style... Focus on what makes your games more enjoyable. With each round play against as many players and armies as possible, as this will give you the best feedback.

 

With each new 250-500 point block have those blocks be focused to deal with issues you faced in the previous tier.

 

Ultimately you will build a collection with a couple of these blocks above what you typically play at, but since you built the collection in blocks to deal with specific threats, list making becomes very easy as you just pick the different blocks that will give you the best chance vs the codex you are about to face.

 

As far as the contents of the list are concerned, there is no wrong answer. You can be just as successful with minimum squad size / maximum upgrades as you can with maximum model count / minimum upgrades, or anything in between. It all really depends on your personal preferences on how you like to play the game.