•Chem-Scalded Pistoliers• "The Gunslinger Gang"

[Shaolin_Monkey]

There seems to be an unfortunate lack of appreciation for the brethren who wear black and wield an arsenal of relic Wargear.

 

I've always been a fan of both the Destroyers and the Moritat and thought it was time we had somewhere for the Frater to post about, discuss and just generally appreciate the amazing twin pistol wielding, Phosphex throwing, Rad-phage inducing marines of the Heresy.

 

Below is the background text from the Legion army list to help set the scene as well as for reference.

 

LEGION DESTROYER SQUAD

The origins of the Destroyer squads lay in the Unification Wars of Terra, but perhaps surprisingly not with the forces of the Emperor but with his enemies. Considered dishonourable by some Legions who make little use of them or eschew them altogether, the Destroyers are equipped with and expert in the use of otherwise proscribed and forbidden weaponry. Alongside certain factions of Mechanicum, only Destroyer cadres have license to use such forbidden devices. Rad-Weapons, bio-alchem munitions and the crawl-burning horror of Phosphex are among their dark arsenal - weapons which irrevocably taint the ground on which they are used.

 

During the long nightmare of the Age of Strife such weapons rendered many once life-sustaining colonies uninhabitable charnel houses of the dead. Marked by their fire-blackened and Chem-scalded armour, Space Marine Destroyers are often shunned and deemed somehow tainted by their battle-brothers in many Legions and considered at best a necessary evil, although the effectiveness of their relic weapons cannot be denied.

LEGION MORITAT

Said by some to be no less than death incarnate, and by others to be no more than dishonourable killers with no place in the Imperium's order of battle, Moritats are lone killers operating outside the Legion's usual command structure at the behest, or at least sufferance of it's high commanders. Regarded usually as dangerously unstable outcasts - perhaps created by some seldom-exposed flaw of gene-seed or indoctrination - they are also savage and proficient warriors however, having become one with the act of killing, honing their superhuman reflexes to gun down the foe at close quarters to a preternatural degree.

To open the discussion I would love to chat more about the whole "black armour" thing.

There seems to be a split in the reasoning for the black armour. Some fee it's just as per the description and began as normal legion colours until it was blackened with by soot and scalded by chemicals, others that it's painted black to remove the connection to the legion who see them as "less than honourable".

Having not read any of the novels I am kind of on the fence and unsure exactly how to start painting my first few squads.

What's the general consensus on these hallowed grounds brothers?

[DuskRaider]

I don't paint mine with black armour, but heavily corroded, like the radiation has peeled layers off. I've never understood the black armour myself, especially as many just simply paint it black. To each their own, I suppose.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

Yeah I think the confusion comes from some pics of black armoured Destroyers in a couple of the books where they do look just painted black. Not sure if it's just that it was started by accident then caught on?

[DuskRaider]

I think the issue more stems from the visual software FW uses for their imagery. It's a template and they add some graphics to it to make each Legionnaire different, but it seems as though it has limitations. That or they didn't put too much effort into it.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

That would explain it then. And once a few were done then it escalated once people painted minis to match.

How about the iconography stuff, I can see many legions being quite happy with them being just as identifiable as the rest. Especially when the colours of the legion would be seen under the grime.

[disease]

Lifted from my thread:

 

'The so called 'Hornets' of 7.3GCoy were aptly named. On Barbarus (if you are lucky), a sting from a single toxwasp will kill you outright via cardiac arrest. If one is less fortunate, the poor soul is subject to between four and forty mintutes of the most excruciating agony imaginable as the poison stimulates every pain receptor in its path as it travels around the victim's blood stream. Meanwhile, the puncture itself will start to corrode the nearest flesh, releasing a vile stink which attracts the attention of the hive. I have been told that the local custom is to turn the khukuri knife the second one realises he has been stung.

I understand now why some legions forbid the use of destroyer marines or their arsenal. With my own eyes I have seen the 'work' of phosphex. I have seen what it does to men and xenos alike, and that supposedly is an easy way to go. May our enemies hope that they too die of cardiac shock from the hornet sting, rather than experience the Chemmaster's latest offering. Just like in the case of the insect, the only fate worse is to be taken alive. Despite this, I find myself fascinated by the Destroyer cadre within the XIV legion. Here, in the Death Guard, serving as a destroyer is seen as a pleasantry, with no shortage of marines volunteering for transfer. To my knowledge, no other legion behaves like this, not even the Iron Warriors. From what I can gather, they see it as some kind of test, though how they prove themselves is unknown to me. Even so, the attrition rate is atrocious, few will ever make veteran status through a combination of volatile weaponry, almost suicidal missions and I would suppose gene decay associated with the inevitable rad-phage. It is not just the hazard markings on the backpacks that set these astartes apart, the lack of hair, sickly gaunt complexion and copious liver spots are a giveaway too, although I guess to an outsider, that description could apply to any of the Death Guard!

... Alas, I have failed in my mission to document the XIV. As much as the Hornets intrigue me, I have not had the courage to visit their nest. To most, knowledge is power, but perhaps in this case ignorance is bliss?'

 

- Cataro Flande, Remembrancer aboard the Echo of Barbarus, Sentinel Class Escort.

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y264/Madoktopus/W30k/75D4FC27-9C05-4B1A-AF74-8BBB4C3AAD8C_zpsoy8wjrp9.jpghttp://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y264/Madoktopus/W30k/B6ED6070-B178-41F3-8209-9F8D5C06FA9C_zps0sq8t6ys.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y264/Madoktopus/W30k/16B7FF28-CD1C-4ADA-87A9-B864D14CF259_zpsywjgog7a.jpghttp://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y264/Madoktopus/W30k/0E1B71F9-D370-4EDC-8665-3F578D7E1BA8_zps19dydvzp.jpg

[Brother Handro]

I like to think that there's some natural crossover between the two ideas;

 

Armour becomes corroded over time, leading marines to simply paint it black instead of constantly renewing their legion paint scheme, eventually leading to an association of Destroyers with the colour black, (don't forget legion customs have 2 centuries to ferment) which leads to future Destroyer inductees simply/formally/ritually painting their armour black upon assignation.

 

Indeed, the Ultramarine Destroyer transfers are blue, inferring use on actual black armour, not chem-damaged.

 

The exception would be the Death Guard as above, Destroyers are not seen as a bad thing, and neither is armour/paint corrosion, so no need for black armour.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

That's an interesting point and I like the idea that both have relevance. I still feel that more legions would also feel quite happy utilizing the Destroyers in their own ways, or at least some parts of many legions. Remembering the immense scale of the Legions at the time of the heresy I feel that most if not all would have companies or battle groups that not only happily used them but prided themselves on the abilities of them.

 

I'm going with just this idea for my 3rd legion pistoliers and will try and write up something for them after that inspiring work by disease above.

[Fire Golem]

The Ultramarine Destroyer in Tempest actually has black armour. The World Eater in Betrayer has corroded blackened armour. Neither are wrong.

[Charlo]

Those WE helms are perfect for destroyers disease!

[Calas Typhon]

Forgeworld references have Legion colours for those that have the Destroyer ranks, in legion colour for some, black for others.

 

For example, the Forgeworld Death Guard shoulder plates have both a black scheme, as well as a Legion colour one. It also shows a legion colour destroyer helmet with the addition of a black strip down the crown, they are also described as legion colours in the short story "Distant echoes of old night". Whereas the World Eaters in all destroyer references bar one very old artwork of skane (providing it is the same fellow as the one in Betrayer) have them in black painted armour. 

 

 

In the end, that is how forgeworld and black library chose to do the scheme, it is up to you how they are painted. Fluff wise, depending on what legion you are, you are pretty much free to do as you will as nothing is set in stone bar the Ultramarines I suppose.

[DuskRaider]

I think Ultramarine Destroyers in rad-bleached and chem-stained armour would look pretty cool, actually. It would offer an interesting contrast to the blue.

[Doctor Perils]

Great idea, Destroyers deserve a bit of praise, just like the Martian Death Ray and Team Breacher. Will this be the Gunslinger Gang?

 

 

 

 

I think the issue more stems from the visual software FW uses for their imagery. It's a template and they add some graphics to it to make each Legionnaire different, but it seems as though it has limitations. That or they didn't put too much effort into it.

Actually, the guy uses photoshop to add all the colour and he adds the iconography by hand (well, touch-screen with specialised pen hand, but still). Sure, he starts off with some kind of template, but it's not the same principle as the B&C painter either.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

Great idea, Destroyers deserve a bit of praise, just like the Martian Death Ray and Team Breacher. Will this be the Gunslinger Gang?

 

 

Gunslinger Gang. I like that. Has a nice ring to it.

 

And I completely agree, they need some praise. Maybe not the best unit but in a game of fun/cool things they reign supreme. Kinda let down no Destroyer themed RoW came about with the additional ones in Book VI. That would have been amazing.

[Fenbain]

I like the sound of Gunslinger Gang. I love Destroyers despite the relative difficultly of effectively using them. I actually made a rough RoW to encourage their use, still needs a lot of work though. I could throw it up here if you like?

[Shaolin_Monkey]

I like the sound of Gunslinger Gang. I love Destroyers despite the relative difficultly of effectively using them. I actually made a rough RoW to encourage their use, still needs a lot of work though. I could throw it up here if you like?

Absolutely! Would love to see it.

I've got 20 Destroyers on the way to start me off, so anything I can play test with mates locally catches my interest!

 

Curious to hear how everyone arms their squads too, the Rad missiles seems the overly obvious choice for special weapons (and the coolest too) but what about the Sergeant? Is it worth kitting him out much or just a couple of Phosphex bombs for crawling-death hijinks?

[Fenbain]

Like I say, needs a lot of work. Especially the restrictions. But I think it's relatively thematic and not overpowered.

 

------

 

Rite of War: Obliteration Force

 

Effects

 

Sanctioned Destruction: The army's compulsory troops choices must be filled with Destroyer squads (or a legion-specific equivalent). The army must also include at least one Heavy Support squad (or a legion-specific equivalent).

 

Horrors Unleashed: All infantry not in Terminator armour (or a variant of it) gain Void Hardened Armour at no additional cost. Additionally any squad sergeant may be armed with up to three phosphex bombs, at 5 points per bomb.

 

Scorched Earth: Any infantry unit that ends it's movement phase further from it's deployment zone than it started at the beginning of that turn, gains a Scorched Earth special rule dependent on its squad type until the end of that Game Turn.

 

Destroyer squad - Preferred Enemy

Heavy Support squad - Relentless

Terminator squad - Hammer of Wrath

Breacher squad - Furious Charge

 

 

Limitations

 

•The only consul choices available to a Centurion are the Siege Breaker, Forge Lord, Moritat and Praevian.

 

•Tactical, Assault or Recon squads may not be taken when using this RoW.

 

•Apothecaries or Veteran Tactical squads may not be taken when using this RoW. No more than one Dreadnought or Contemptor Dreadnought may be taken.

 

•When using this RoW, an army may not include more than one Fast Attack choice.

 

•May only take Heavy Support choices with the Infantry, Tank or Walker unit types.

 

•This force can not gain more than 1 VP from securing objectives. Instead it gains 1 VP for each infantry unit it destroys over the course of the battle.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

Interesting idea, I like the theme that is just out for total annihilation rather than any objectives.

The Phosphex on every sarge seems pretty mean, maybe at least make them 10ps each in line with what a Destroyer sarge pays for them? Or possibly cap them at one each?

Also the ability to have relentless heavy support squads seems very powerful, the fact they have to be static is one of the main counterpoints for their firepower.

 

Curious to hear how it's gone if you've play tested them though.

 

In my head the Destroyers fit as part of a fast moving destruction/distraction force so I'm going more down the Jump Pack Destroyers coupled with Jetbikes and other rapid deployment forces. A "get in quick and obliterate key objective" kind of thing.

That said this idea of an "Exterminatus on a minor and very specific scale" that you have gone with is another aspect that the gunslingers would excel at.

So many realms of war they fit in, great to see some appreciation for them appearing.

[Lord Blackwood]

This topic as been an interesting read !   Amusingly enough the IF have an unofficial destroyer marking but no  example of one of their destroyers armor , I know I painted mine black with one shoulder carrying the legion color. 

[Soldier of Dorn]

When the day comes and I build my VII Legion Destroyers, they will be wearing full legion colors. Whether those colors will be recognizable, however, is another matter entirely... ;)

[Forward Assist]

I've been looking at Destroyers for a while but I'm holding back until the Dreadwing get some rules. I was a bit surprised they didn't get an update in the latest red book.

[Charlo]

75pts for jump packs turns them from: "A cool unit that is a challenge to use. "

 

To: "why have I spent 400pts on ten MEQs. I should have just got a Typhon."

 

I do love em though, they just needed some obvious love in the new book. I think they need some new options really too - maybe some special weapons or a rule.

[Doctor Perils]

75pts for jump packs turns them from: "A cool unit that is a challenge to use. "

 

To: "why have I spent 400pts on ten MEQs. I should have just got a Typhon."

 

I do love em though, they just needed some obvious love in the new book. I think they need some new options really too - maybe some special weapons or a rule.

Access to squad wide dual-volkite :devil:

[Charlo]

I'd even settle for one volkite one bolt each!

 

I quite like the idea of burning the earth as a rule. Maybe instead of targeting models, destroyers are allowed to target blasts onto any point on the ground, as long as the marker is touching an enemy model. Even allowing the rad missiles and Phosphex bombs able to target a different unit to pistols.

 

Or we could take a leaf from the swooping hawks - able to drop a (large) blast maker in the movement phase to represent them doing a fly by rad grenade. S1 AP5 poison 2+ Rad Phage perhaps?

 

Also, seeing as they are the big destoryer daddies: anyone else so bummed out about the 12 hit maximum for Moritats? It basically makes plasma even worse as before you could take one plasma and one Volkite and roll the Volkite until it failed then fly off a few plasma shots. Now, if you are lucky you may not even get to roll the plasma at all or you roll them simultaneously and risk ending it all SUPER early. Another Needless nerf.

[Doctor Perils]

Also, seeing as they are the big destoryer daddies: anyone else so bummed out about the 12 hit maximum for Moritats? It basically makes plasma even worse as before you could take one plasma and one Volkite and roll the Volkite until it failed then fly off a few plasma shots. Now, if you are lucky you may not even get to roll the plasma at all or you roll them simultaneously and risk ending it all SUPER early. Another Needless nerf.

Aren't the two pistols technically shot at the same time? Now it'll be actually important to roll them at the same time.