Theredknight Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 So today, the other thing that came up was laser destroyers and laser destroyer arrays. There is no entry for laser destroyer array in the new legion book, but there is laser destroyer. I think it's in the quick reference sheet, however, how then do you show that to an opponent if you don't have that to hand?(I assumed it was in the book stupidly!) So one game a guy was hitting me with 48" range with 4 las vindis, and another game the chap said it was 36" and mine then sat at the back doing not much. I didn't have the sheet and we had no way to prove otherwise. So played at 36" due to constraints. Is this another bodge printing job or done intentionally? This has been an issue for a while now and the confusion hasn't been cleared up has it? My question is this then, where does it actually state the array rules, and that they are different from destroyers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apostle of the 30th Host Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 There are no Laser Destroyer Array rules in the book (technically). I was always under the impression that the Laser Destroyer and Array use the SAME profile (e.g. 36" range, Ord 1...). However, what makes the Array different is the Power Capacitor Special rule, making it either Ord 2 or 3 under certain circumstances). If you were making your own quick reference sheet, the Laser Destroyer Array is essentially a normal Laser Destroyer with the Power Capacitor Special Rule - which makes sense being that an 'array' implies more than one, thus multiple shots of the original weapon. But instead of just making this a weapon profile that includes that rule, the Vindicator gains the Special Rule if it has the weapon. That is how I see it anyway. Hopefully that's on the right track and clears it up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4454446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I thought in the new book a Laser Destroter Array got a range increase? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4454470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apostle of the 30th Host Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I thought in the new book a Laser Destroter Array got a range increase? Apparently not. At least not in the physical copy of the brand new Crusade Army List. Only one Laser Destroyer profile, nothing extra for the array - leaving the my approach of using the same profile with the additional rule given by the Vindicator. And all the Power Capacitor Special Rule does is increase number of shots and gives twin-linked, so no range increase there either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4454481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 The answer is that it's a disaster. The rules are inconsistent across 3 versions of the red book. FWs legendary editing team strikes again: Physical Book: Only an entry for the Laser Destroyer. 36" range iBook: Two separate entries. Laser Destroyer is 36". LD Array is 48" eBook: Only an entry for the Laser Destroyer. 36" range So Threadknight it's no wonder you are up against people using different rules. Which one is right? Who knows. This one has been consistently misprinted since the first book came out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4454504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 I have hopelessly queried fw about it, i think many have before. Sent them a pic of th rules on the sheet and tempest and the rule for laser destroyers. It's a silly little thing but such a massive deal. Personally I have been using the laser destroyer array rule, because that's the weapon and that's the profile for the weapon. However those without tempest will not know any different as it hasn't been printed in the new book or FAQd. Good old fashioned editing there. Which is why I ah e to wonder if they did it on purpose, leading you to think that it's not the profile!!! So yes a disaster is an understatement! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4454523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 A very very quick reply from fw here: Hi, Thank you for your email. There are two issues with the Laser Destroyer profile and there are - 1. It has the word array missed off it s name 2. It should have a range of 48" and not 36" Please accept our apologies for this and it will be address in a future FAQ/Errata How would you rate my reply? Great Okay Not Good If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us. Regards, Forge World Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4454974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apostle of the 30th Host Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 A very very quick reply from fw here: Hi, Thank you for your email. There are two issues with the Laser Destroyer profile and there are - 1. It has the word array missed off it s name 2. It should have a range of 48" and not 36" Please accept our apologies for this and it will be address in a future FAQ/Errata How would you rate my reply? Great Okay Not Good If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us. Regards, Forge World So there is only one profile: e.g. all Laser Destroyers are Laser Destroyer Arrays? So all LD's are 48" range? But only the Vindicators LDA has the Power Capacitor rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4455016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 I have asked as this affects the Spartan, it upgrades to a laser destroyer not a laser destroyer array. If it's an array hoorah! When I get a reply I shall post it up Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4455036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Well, I got another reply from fw, fair play to the guy, he went all the way to the big B himself in his lair. Seems all including the solar destroyers are 36" and use that profile! Hi Ben, Thank you for your email. I went to the Forge world studio and spoke directly to Alan Bligh about the whole Laser Destroyer / Laser Destroyer array issue and it looks like the initial information I had and provided to you was incorrect. Please accept my apologies for this. What Alan told me was that the Laser Destroyer and the Laser Destroyer Array are the same weapon and use the Laser Destroyer Profile in the Age of Darkness Army list. The Vindicator Laser Destroyer has additional rules as per its entry due to its enhanced Capacitors. So, what this means is that the Solar Auxilia Rapier with the Laser Destroyer should now use the stats in the Age of Darkness Army list book. As for the Spartan, it uses the Laser Destroyer weapon stat line from the Age of Darkness Army list too, for its free upgrade. How would you rate my reply? Great Okay Not Good If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us. Regards, Forge World Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4455088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apostle of the 30th Host Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Cheers for that. You have gone to quite a bit of effort there. So just to clarify: ALL laser destroyers (including arrays) are exactly the same and share that one profile? Essentially meaning that the word 'array' might as well not be there as its no different to a standard Laser Destroyer. With the exception of the Vindicator which has Power Capicitors due to its size, therefore changing the profile (which actually explains why the Vindicator has that rule rather than the weapon - as the weapon is the same across the board unless mounted on a vindicator). For simplicities sake, I might just start using this key for referring to these: Laser Destroyer Array = Vindicator Weapon due to Power Capcitor Laser Destroyer = Everything Else Therefore eliminating the confusion of weapons like the Rapiers LDA which is no different to a standard LD. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4455115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Makes sense! And him actually being able to go to Alan is a great thing to say in the email. 36" for all is fine too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4455125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Aye, it's an issue that has needed putting to bed for a couple of issues and will follow in an faq release. Clears up a lot of confusion. As the solar list has 48" for an array on the reference sheets, may as well be binned now. My reply was this: Hi there, Thank you for going all the way to Alan upon his throne made of resin 30k miniatures, and airbrushes to a golden hue. I tried to get to him on the open day but he had a 3 deep phalanx about him all day and it was impossible! I usually like having a chat to him about hobby and general stuff (he talks hobby all day so probably gets a little tiresome!) Ok, il pass this on that all laser destroyers are 36" I think some of the confusion came with the release of the online ruleset being 48" and the different sheets rules. I appreciate that sometimes things like this slip through the noose, and are usually followed up with FAQs. The other one I was going to ask Alan about was d weapons haha Thank you for your time in seeking knowledge of this, as knowledge is power Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4455174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Aye, it's an issue that has needed putting to bed for a couple of issues and will follow in an faq release. Clears up a lot of confusion. As the solar list has 48" for an array on the reference sheets, may as well be binned now. My reply was this: Hi there, Thank you for going all the way to Alan upon his throne made of resin 30k miniatures, and airbrushes to a golden hue. I tried to get to him on the open day but he had a 3 deep phalanx about him all day and it was impossible! I usually like having a chat to him about hobby and general stuff (he talks hobby all day so probably gets a little tiresome!) Ok, il pass this on that all laser destroyers are 36" I think some of the confusion came with the release of the online ruleset being 48" and the different sheets rules. I appreciate that sometimes things like this slip through the noose, and are usually followed up with FAQs. The other one I was going to ask Alan about was d weapons haha Thank you for your time in seeking knowledge of this, as knowledge is power Thanks for the info. Must admit, FW's habit of poor editing gets pretty old! I'll probably play it as 48" until it gets an update or addressed in a FAQ. For what it's worth, the 40k version is 48". That's probably why I was using that range, coming to 30k used to 40k stats etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4457013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 Yes I was using 48" until the weekend when it was called up at throne of skulls, made me question the whole thing. Sent an email and they came back rapid. Oh it's annoying that you buy a book and its immediately wrong, I mean those things aren't cheap! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4457129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 So, the only version that still incorrectly (or so it seems) lists the array as a weapon profile with 48" range is the iBook one eh? Pretty sure those are handled by BLDigital, which means FW wouldn't be to nlame here... The change is good, imho, since las-vindis were such a no-brainer... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4457136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 I'm with Terminus on this one. It's most likely the 48" was a misprint since it's 36" across the board in two of the copies. We played with 48" range before and I agree, it made them a real no-brainier choice. They're still solid choices. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4457183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Yeah, I can see why that is the case. I prefer the demolisher cannon conceptually, but obviously all those lasers are wrecking vehicles left and right. I don't doubt they intended 36" range, but if that's the case I really expect that to be printed, or fixed via FAQ shortly after release. Heck, even announce it on the FW page. The rules are really not a huge priority for 'em. I get it, just a little irksome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4457185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 I like that you used the word 'irksome' to describe it, +2 heresy points for you sir! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4457368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I like that you used the word 'irksome' to describe it, +2 heresy points for you sir! Yesss! Three more heresy points and I can send for the chaos wristwatch! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/#findComment-4457629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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