Charlo Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 So probably just some weird wording on the Unit Entry's part but... Fire Raptor is armed with "Two turret-mounted quad heavy bolters". But: "A Fire Raptor may exchange its quad heavy bolters for a: Reaper autocannon battery ............................................+10 points" The wording here implies that you would give up both sets of heavy bolters for just one set of the Auto Cannons. As it doesn't say each and only mentions a single battery in exchange for the quad heavy bolters. So you exchange 12 S5 AP4 TL shots for a measly 4 S7 AP4 TL shots... That I'm not entirely sure how you would target, I guess it could fire from either side? I'm sure it must be intended to be two batteries of Autocannon, but I just thought i'd see what the fraters think. Personally losing a couple shots for S7 is worth it. But not 8 shots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Hm, I hadn't noticed that. Now looking at the model itself the ac's look like a single tl weapon per turret, so maybe the profile is intended. If so, that sucks. Pure and simple. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtDan Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 There are two raptors in my gaming group and we run them as each side as it's one quad hbolter each side Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 It is indeed one QHB on each side, but when you go to Auto's do they go down to a single weapon system? That is the weird question. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 It is indeed one QHB on each side, but when you go to Auto's do they go down to a single weapon system? That is the weird question. Yeah, if we use the model as something to go off of, then I'd lean towards a single weapon battery. Most tl'd weapons are represented as two of the same, and quad is four. This is how the Quad heavy bolter turrets are on the FR model, but the reaper turrets only have two barrels. However based on the profile given for the Reaper Autocannon Battery, if it in fact only a single batter, then both turrets would have to fire at 1 target. So yeah it's confusing as hell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
almightyjesus55 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 It is indeed one QHB on each side, but when you go to Auto's do they go down to a single weapon system? That is the weird question. Yeah, if we use the model as something to go off of, then I'd lean towards a single weapon battery. Most tl'd weapons are represented as two of the same, and quad is four. This is how the Quad heavy bolter turrets are on the FR model, but the reaper turrets only have two barrels. However based on the profile given for the Reaper Autocannon Battery, if it in fact only a single batter, then both turrets would have to fire at 1 target. So yeah it's confusing as hell. But a single reaper autocannon is already a twin linked weapon so it's not too hard to believe that having two on the turret gives it a a second shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 But a single reaper autocannon is already a twin linked weapon so it's not too hard to believe that having two on the turret gives it a a second shot.Pretty sure the argument is not whether each turret gets one TL-shot or two (I'm confident it's one per); a Reaper autocannon has always had two barrels; in this case, the barrels are just a bit more spaced than usual. The issue is that RAW, you'd need to replace both QHB turrets for a single Reaper autocannon battery... Now whether a battery includes one or two Reaper autocannons (the Independant Turret Fire rule seems to imply a battery means two) is up for discussion I guess. + Edit : Hmm, looking back, I see the battery has 4 shots, which means I'm now completely lost as to how to play it :\ Does the battery encompass both turrets, thus making it 4 shots for the two together, or each turret is a battery with 4 shots each? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 But it speaks about the quad heavy bolters, not the turrets. So it's easy to assume that you swap every turret weapons, so its two RAC batteries, one for each turret. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 If someone actually tried to argue that I only get one autocannon they'd get a slap. xD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 I mean really why is this a thing? No disrespect or anything but anyone trying to argue the toss about that deserves a stiff right hand Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Considering the 40k variant, in IA2:2ndEd replaces Quad-Bolter turrets with TL Autocannons, thus going from 6 TL shots to 2 TL shots, I'd say replacing both turrets for a single battery seems to be the desired intent... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 I mean really why is this a thing? No disrespect or anything but anyone trying to argue the toss about that deserves a stiff right hand Because the wording says completely opposite to what some people may want it to. It's a genuine issue. The model even seems to support it only being a single 4 shot weapon as opposed to two... :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Yes one battery: Reaper autocannon battery is 4 shots, as a single RAC is 2 shots, so a single battery but two RACs one in each turret? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 The model comes with 2 Reaper Autocannon Batteries for a reason :/ you don't pick the left or right side and only stick one on... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 But does it? Or are both considered one battery? RAW they are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 As Charlo said, just because there are two turrets doesn'mean there are necessarily two batteries. The Deredeo sports ONE autocannon battery which includes four barrels and fires 4 TL shots... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Yes, but the FR turrets fire independently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 I myself asked this question a year ago. Given the turrets don't always have the ability to fire at the same target, someone pointed out to me that it had to be 2 batteries of 4 shots each. Seriously, you can't split the weapon profile into 2 shots on each turret, as that's just not how the rules work in 30k/40k. Despite this, I think the intention was for it to simply have 1 Reaper autocannon on each side. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 I mean really why is this a thing? No disrespect or anything but anyone trying to argue the toss about that deserves a stiff right hand Because the wording says completely opposite to what some people may want it to. It's a genuine issue. The model even seems to support it only being a single 4 shot weapon as opposed to two... Has this actually cropped up during a game situation or is this more of a musing thing? Personally the way to look at it is objectively. There's 2 autocannon "sets" in the kit. If it says there's only a single battery that replaces the quad heavy bolters then both turrets comprise that battery. But seeing as they shoot independently of each other you can't exactly split the shots or anything can you? Therefore each turret uses the weapon profile in the unit entry. RAW? Not 100% irrefutably but far too many people are nailing down RAW as the very be all and end all. Use some common sense for the love of god, Out of curiosity do many people find this thing becoming more prevalent? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtDan Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 I've never seen the raptor actually fire there weapons anyway Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Anyway, I read it as a battery for each quad, so its 2 batteries for me :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324342-fire-raptor-autocannons/#findComment-4455758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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