Theredknight Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 So.. With word from Bligh himself via an email from FW I have managed to add to the next FAQ the conundrum of the laser destroyer and laser destroyer array ranges. Now all weapons with 'laser destroyer' whether array or not will be 36" range how will you use your vindis and will you even use your las rapiers anymore? I think the only way really is as the range is short, vindicators with the array will need to close the distance. this means taking machine spirit to get that shot off, or flat out in the shooting phase to get your T2 overcharge in. It also makes taking an extra vindi either with demolisher cannon or array that little more tempting, so you can have some ablative wounds. Whenever I have hit with the array it has been devastating, so whilst I lament the lack of 48", it makes it a little less an auto take and 1st blood claimer for myself and others, and makes it so tactics have to be used a little more. Laser rapiers IMO aren't really worth the points as they are pretty much static, unless you know your facing a deep strike list and can put an Augury scanner in there somehow to intercept those pesky pods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 While I agree about rapiers probably being the most boring choice for the Legions, I have a couple of questions: 1. Since when does Bligh answer FW emails? 2. Why even open this can of worms when we finally have clarity after so many years? The Deimos Laser Destroyer has a FAQ/errata document that supercedes all printed material that came before, and specifically gives the array a 48" range. The newest Legion book carries forward this profile and finally creates a distinction between laser destroyers and laser destroyer arrays. I would continue playing it with a 48" range until the very unlikely scenario they choose to address this in a FAQ a year or 4 from now. I expect End Times/8th edition 40K before any more FAQs from FW, which has potential to turn the entire game on its head if they don't stick their guns to a pre-FAQ 7th edition ruleset. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4455911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Well the new Legion book is actually the most recent publication... So that is the one to take precedence. By the errata document do you mean the experimental rules? they are shown as 40k with a footnote about the Crusade list that is now irrelevant as they are in the main list. The most recent heresy FAQ only says about the capacitor rules, no range that I can see. And Bligh doesn't answer email, but the CS guy said he went to speak to him for full clarification. Really, no current rules show the range as 48, so playing it like that would be a bit dishonest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4455928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 I will reserve my doubts about the email monkeys they have working there or any claims they make, lol... My rulebook has two profiles, the laser destroyer array is 48". Of course, I also have the old hellstrike missiles, so who knows. Will re-update the book and see if they've updated anything. What does the physical copy say? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4455946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/?do=findComment&comment=4455174 Here is a link to the discussion complete with emails from fw. I am going off what I have been told in them. There hasn't been clarity on the issue for a long time IMO, it's all discussed in there. Bligh himself didn't answer the email however the email goblin did ask his council. If anything the new legion book muddied the water even further. Make of it as you will, however at throne of skulls I had different opponents playing different rules. The FW sheet is 40k approved, not heresy if you notice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4455956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 There is only one profile across the entire digital version i have and it is 36. Well... Tell a lie, on technicality there is: Fell blade has a profile showing 36. Then the wargear list has it at 36. Then the summary tables again have it at 36. The word "array" being used on both rapiers and vindicators but not on Spartans and Fellblades. So I think like the email said it's just flash inconsistent wording. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4455958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 The only difference is the solar lists an array at 48". Apparently his is a misprint and they are supposed to be 36" according to blighs musings. The rules Bligh-emperor is a fickle being and he takes and gives at his whim. We are but mere puppets in his wake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4455962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 [/quote We shall see when the next faq is out, but solid evidence in my emails from fw hq says 36" now,and that 'array' means nothing now. Id love 48" but will play as suggested now, still play as you wish of course Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 I'm not saying I'd start a fight about it, I was just confused by initial post since in my book it seemed clear. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 Haha you sounded all scrappy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Not being combative, I swear! The tidbit is from the iTunes version, the rapier and vindicators have arrays, the sponson weapons are plain laser destroyers. Pretty sure Book XIII on the 40K side also has it as 48" but Ap2, its been a minute since I opened it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 I have been playing 48" since the fw rules release, was questioned at the weekend and many others play the 36" it makes that much of a difference as you can sit back and armour snipe. Otherwise your advancing forward with it. I just thought it was interesting he went to Bligh himself. They never usually do that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 The rapier and vindicators have arrays, the sponson weapons are plain laser destroyers. This is the main thing isn't it sadly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 It's a disaster... again :( The rules are inconsistent across 3 versions of the red book. FWs legendary editing team strikes again:Physical Book: Only an entry for the Laser Destroyer. 36" rangeiBook: Two separate entries. Laser Destroyer is 36". LD Array is 48"eBook: Only an entry for the Laser Destroyer. 36" range Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 They should be spanked for their impudence. It is a mess has been for a while. I can only assume that Alan would reduce the range to eliminate rapier arrays wiping out Spartans in a turn of shooting on t1. It makes a little sense to level it out to 36" I can see what he's done. 48" is large, and I could easily sit at the back with las vindi and blast away with the 3 shots overcharge to demolish something. Now the range is shorter they will have to be used differently Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 It's a disaster... again The rules are inconsistent across 3 versions of the red book. FWs legendary editing team strikes again: Physical Book: Only an entry for the Laser Destroyer. 36" range iBook: Two separate entries. Laser Destroyer is 36". LD Array is 48" eBook: Only an entry for the Laser Destroyer. 36" range Well, like with the hellstrike missiles, both the physical books and the ebooks were consistent with the new profile, while the iBook had the old profile. So it could be they didn't bother updating the hyperlink catalog of the iTunes books and just used the old one, whereas the eBook is a straight copy of the printed version? I would play it with the 36" range then. They should be spanked for their impudence. It is a mess has been for a while. I can only assume that Alan would reduce the range to eliminate rapier arrays wiping out Spartans in a turn of shooting on t1. It makes a little sense to level it out to 36" I can see what he's done. 48" is large, and I could easily sit at the back with las vindi and blast away with the 3 shots overcharge to demolish something. Now the range is shorter they will have to be used differently Clearly the FW editors are a Slaaneshi cult, who delight in both the anguish of their playerbase and the spankings they get from the team (or the team are their own editors and thus are self-flagellating all over the place). Scandalous! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 Clearly there is nothing to be done, their delight in self flagellation knows no bounds! It's a little annoying considering that I just stalked out for a new book which is immediately wrong, I'd like a refund and one that's correct please! At the very least a subscription based live rule book would be good, or one where you buy an app and it is updated as we go with various changes that occur (8th ed soon I imagine) which then throws out all FWnbooks out of date again! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 They should be spanked for their impudence. It is a mess has been for a while. I can only assume that Alan would reduce the range to eliminate rapier arrays wiping out Spartans in a turn of shooting on t1. It makes a little sense to level it out to 36" I can see what he's done. 48" is large, and I could easily sit at the back with las vindi and blast away with the 3 shots overcharge to demolish something. Now the range is shorter they will have to be used differently Who is wiping out Spartans turn 1 with laser destroyers? In the entire time I've played heresy I have literally (not virtually, literally) never seen a Spartan without a flare shield. Unless you're seeing opponents set up Spartans in terrible angles during initial deployment, in which case they kinda deserve to get laser vindicated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Machine Spirit to move into side armour position & luck... I guess? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 I'm speaking of a few things glancing it, and concentrating fire from 2 las vindis can do some damage, that's 6 shots alone. Stick in the other glancing possibilities it's achievable. I have done the deed myself. It's nearly always priority target, then blitz the Death Star inside! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 If a bro wants to throw all six shots from two laser vindis into my Spartan's front armor fishing for sixes, he's welcome to. Barring wacky dice, you're getting two glances, tops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4456667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 So if we would use laser rapiers, how to field them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4458767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 With a good line of sight and in cover. They work as pretty good denial units. I'm inclined to say though that with the 36" range Grav Rapiers may just be straight up better - though they aren't exploding anything of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4458811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Hmm I notice the 40k rules on the forge world website are still 48 hopefully they forget about updating them as I love my chaos versions. Sums about the change in range to laser destroyers I was planning on fielding a few vindicators with for my 30k force as i found they were quite good in my 40k army, looks like I'll go Deredero's instead for anti tank especially with their Str 10 main gun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324373-laser-destroyer-vindicators-and-rapiers/#findComment-4459511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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