5E IG codex update project log

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

So, I know we have a topic that has covered this before, but it's dead, and I didn't want to Necro an old thread. Still, I was thinking of having a discussion about it, since I've been going through the old Guard codex and it's battlescribe catalog and making some changes.

 

It started as just a points adjustment, with a couple of tweaks, like making Stormtroopers troops with a Lord commissar. Then I didn't want to stop, I made some other points adjustments, like to the taurox and taurox prime. Then I added Yarrick to the stormie troops mechanism. I also made the Fortress of arrogance a LoW choice, as well as Max Weismann (the ABG Baneblade character).

 

I also added a Company Command Tank from the ABG list. All the ABG trimmings are there for Russes. This Command tank unlocks Commissar tanks in elites, and makes Leman Russ Squadrons Troops.

 

I also made Infantry Platoons able to take up to 3 sentinel squadrons of either Armored or Scout, but it must be one or the other.

 

Now I'm wanting to include some optional doctrines for the whole army. This is what I have so far:

 

Combined Arms: Normal Codex Build, no restrictions, but no benefits.

 

Airborne: Half your valkyries rounded up may enter first turn (ala Drop Pod Assault), And you may roll for deep strike reserves beginning turn 1, as well as opening up Valkyries as DT, All infantry and walkers gain deep strike, but no tanks allowed.

 

Light Infantry: No Carapace Armor allowed, Transports become assault transports. All infantry gain fleet and MTC.

 

Heavy Infantry: Carapace Armor for everyone, No transports, can have tanks.

 

Mechanized Infantry: Every Squad must take a dedicated Transport, if able, chimeras become fast vehicles, and embarked troops may fire at full ballistic skill.

 

These Doctrines would cost nothing in points, the trade offs would be the cost. I figure these doctrines are generic enough that you can play a named faction, or your own clone if you desire. It also opens up the ability to play regiments that only exist in fluff these days.

[WarriorFish]

Sounds quite interesting, I like the idea of the builds being limited in structure rather than cost. Sort of a method to prevent people having their cake and eating it, and would allow for some thematic regiment builds.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Exactly what I was going for. I also added another doctrine option, that of the Cavalry regiment. It makes rough riders troops, and forces infantry to take transports, if able. Infantry, Cavalry, and walkers gain move through cover. it's a work in progress, since There seems like it needs to have another restriction, like the roster must contain at least one unit of cavalry (either rough riders, or tallarn mukaali rough riders).

 

Some of the Doctrines also affect what characters can be taken. For instance, Light Infantry hides Yarrick, Creed, Kell, and Lukas Bastogne, while heavy infantry hides Straken, and Harker. Airborne and Mechanized do not hide any characters, allowing you to go full Vietnam and have an Airborne list with Straken, and Harker with catachans. Or go full blitzkrieg with Yarrick or Creed in a mechanized list.

 

This kinda makes me want to implement a homeworld system, for those that want tailor their army more. That will essentially hide characters that don't belong to their world.

 

Additionally, Homeworlds would grant certain bonuses, but restrict characters to only their worlds:

 

Cadia would allow you to take Stormtroopers as Troops (to represent Kasrkin). Stormtroopers will be limited to a maximum of 3 squads.

 

Armageddon would reduce the cost of Armored sentinels and transports would have a reduced cost, however the Mechanized Infantry Doctrine must be taken.

 

Catachan would grant infantry Stealth, +1 Strength and +1 Toughness. Certain vehicles would be limited though (no armored sentinels), and may not take Carapace armour.

 

Tallarn would grant increased movement speed to infantry. Light infantry Doctrine must be taken.

 

Krieg would allow tanks to spot for artillery and replace vets with stormtroopers (without doctrines). Must chose Heavy infantry, or Mechanized Doctrine.

 

Vostroyans would grant guardsmen +1 BS. May not take command tanks.

 

Valhallans Commander Chenkov's special rule is free.

 

Harakoni - Stormtroopers as troops, no infantry platoons, must take Airborne Doctrine.

 

Elysians - Must take Airborne Doctrine, may re-roll failed reserve rolls.

 

There are still several I haven't named, and feel free to submit others.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Also you can find the catalog for download here if you wish to use it. Keep in mind it is an ongoing project, so you may want to re download it after I make changes.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I have decided to shelve the regimental doctrines, in favor of platoon doctrines. I have also shelved the idea of Homeworld bonuses. I'll also be adding squad doctrines, for the specialist things, like making stormies and vets airborne.

 

Company Command Squads, Veterans, and Storm Troopers will get the Air Assault doctrine, which will force them to take the Valkyrie as a Dedicated Transport, and they'll get bonuses like being able to fire from access points and a special rule that allows them to arrive (with a reserve roll) from reserves from turn 1, and automatically on turn 2. Stormies will gain access to the Elysians Hot Drop, allowing them to treat the Valk as an Assault Vehicle.

 

I decided to go this route because I felt that army wide doctrines would be too restrictive, and this still allows the freedom to build a restricted list, but also allows the freedom to build a truly combined arms force.

 

There are still options to get everything you could possibly want into a list, without having to compete for slots.

 

I'm thinking of making a rule for platoons giving the whole thing a bonus, if the sentinels are within range of the platoons.

 

I also increased the size of penal legion squads by 10 additional legionnaires.

 

Basically I'm trying to make something that combines everything we loved about the old IG codex, with the cool stuff from FW, and can compete with the Cadian Decurion.

 

To that end, I was thinking of adding formations to compete and address the downfalls of the cadian decurion.

 

I'm thinking of a couple of core formations:

 

Emperor's Blade Assault Company, with the option for 0-3 hellhounds, and/or 0-3 sentinel squadrons (any type). 0-1 Lord Commissars

 

Emperor's Fist, with the Company Command Tank, and 3 leman russ squadrons, with an engineseer. Option to swap one russ squadron with a commissar tank. Basically a carbon copy, but 4 russes minimum, instead of 5.

 

Emperor's shield company, only it's 1-3 emperor's shield platoons and a CCS. 0-1 Lord Commissars

 

Auxiliary:

 

Emperor's Shield Platoon, 5 squads minimum (any legal combination of Infantry, special weapon, or heavy weapon squads), 1-3 sentinel squadrons (any type). No DT. Gains obsec.

 

Emperor's Spear, carbon copy.

 

Imperial Navy Support Squadron, 1-3 of the following: Vulture Gunship, Thunderbolt Fighter, Lightning Fighter, Avenger Strike Fighter. This formation arrives on turn 1 or 2 Automatically, based on player choice. Additionally this formation may enter with one reserve roll, and may enter by deep strike.

 

Schola Pregenium Strike Force, 0-1 Lord Commissar, and 1-3 squads of Storm Troopers. Lord Commissar gains the Deep Strike USR, and must take Carapace Armour.

 

Infantry Platoon

 

Militarum Tempestus Platoon

 

Super heavy support, carbon copy

 

Emperor's wrath, 0-2 Wyvern batteries, 0-2 ordnance batteries (basilisk, medusa, or griffon), 0-2 Hydra batteries, and CCS. Basically a carbon copy.

 

Psyker support division, 1-3 psyker battle squads, 1-3 Primaris psykers, 1-3 Commissars.

 

Penal Legion, 1-4 Penal Legion Squads, 1-4 Commissars.

 

Command:

 

Battlegroup Command, Carbon copy.

 

Big changes would be that Priests and Commissars may be taken anywhere not explicitly stated, Additionally, anywhere a Lord Commissar can be taken, Yarrick May be taken instead.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I think I have done it. I think I have actually created a decurion that's playable at sub 2000 points for our beloved guard. That's the build part. I'm working on the rules part. I'm thinking:

 

0+ Command

1-6 Core

1-3 Aux per Core

 

Any formation that includes infantry will have Objective Secured. Including the storm trooper formation.

 

Detachment special rules:

Obligatory Warlord trait re-roll

 

Vox net- Orders may be issued to any vox equipped unit at 24 inches in line of sight, 18 inches if not in line of sight. Masters of Ordnance may roll for scatter as a normal weapon if their unit is equipped with a Vox Caster, and a vox equipped unit can draw line of sight to their target.

 

Now some of the Cadian Battle Group formations have had some modifications, like allowing forgeworld, and removing some of the restrictions. For instance, the artillery company, no longer requires the CCS to be in chimera, as there are more artillery options than just the vehicles. Also, since vehicles aren't required, neither are the techpriests, and the requirement for the manticore or deathstrike has also been removed. Basically you get a CCS to issue orders and whatever artillery you want to bring.

 

The Super heavy support element will allow you to take Marauder bombers if that's your thing. Basically if you wanted to have a decurion that takes advantage of all the FW love the IG gets, it's here.

 

I hope this proves to be balanced. If it does, Maybe I should try to get GW to let me write the rules for the next Guard Codex...

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

As soon as I get internet back to my computers, the catalog will update. I have made some changes, I've decided to add the world bonuses back in.

 

So Far:

Krieg gives the forgeworld bonuses, immune to fear, +1WS, no morale checks for 25% casualties, and regroup normally within 6" of an officer. Stormies become troops, but you lose vets, platoons can't take dedicated transport or heavy weapons, and lose access to all sentinels except armored.

 

Cadia makes stormies troops. That's all I got for them.

 

Catachan, gives stealth(forests) and +1 toughness.

 

Elysia gives the forgeworld bonuses, and removes all tanks.

 

Harakon is a copy of Elysia, but vets go down to 5 man minimum, stormies become troops, and they lose access to the penal squads and infantry platoon.

 

Armageddon forces transports for everything that can take them, except yarrick and the LC. Chimeras become assault transports.

 

Tallarn makes the FW upgrade free, but nothing can take carapace armour. Except stormies, but they stay since those would be tempestus anyway.

 

I'm trying to make sure this has balance, which is why I'm trying to make trade offs.

[Father Mehman]

Oh, Emperor! This is amazing! Consider me a huge fan .

Be sure to update us when the intertubes are once again warmed and booted into your cogitators!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I have sorted out the issue with my internet. Hopefully I have it back by Monday.

 

Another change I made is giving the Company Command Tank an Optional squadron. I may or may not keep this change, as the CCT makes LR tanks a troops choice. I think that this will mainly find use as a Battlegroup command choice. Tanks in the Commander's unit may all fire at separate targets.

 

Vanquishers have a new specialist shell, for 25 points the Vanquisher may fire a Str D AP2 heavy 1 shot. I called these Titan hunter shells. This is to address the relative lack of D str options in the guard codex.

 

All vehicles have the option to purchase BS4 for 15 points. I have called this upgrade "Elite Crew".

 

Pask and lord commissar tanks both have BS5.

 

I'll also be thinking about squadron benefits, to balance against the new C:SM benefits.

 

I'm thinking that a full squadron of bassies should be able to fire a D str apocalyptic blast at ap2. Wyvern a would go to S8 Ap3 apocalyptic blast. Both would be barrage.

 

I don't really know yet,

[WarriorFish]

Sounding good, I like the overall feel of the balancing. A trio of Bassies should certainly be putting the hurt on anything when they focus fire, but I'm not sure if it should be quite so powerful? Perhaps S10?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I went str d because bassies are already S9, and the things you'll want to focus fire on are going to be big multi wound models, or superheavies.

 

Besides, you're paying 375 points minimum for that capability. It should be Str D. Maybe make it range dependent, like the conversion Beamer.

[Goonbandito]

I'm thinking that a full squadron of bassies should be able to fire a D str apocalyptic blast at ap2. Wyvern a would go to S8 Ap3 apocalyptic blast. Both would be barrage.

Make Basilisks in squadrons of 3 fire their Earthshaker Cannons as Ordnance 2 (instant double firepower at 3 strong) as the battery lays down a devastating artillery barrage.  Keep Strength D for the Deathstrike imo.  Also, giving Wyverns a S8 AP3 Apocalyptic Blast seems a little too good imo considering how effective the Stormshard Mortars are anyway (especially at 65pts a piece).  I think a Counter-Battery rule would be pretty cool for Wyverns:

 

Counter Battery:  If an enemy unit fires a Barrage weapon, after the initial shot is fired the Wyvern Battery may immediately fire at the enemy unit.  If the enemy barrage weapons are removed as casualties, their barrage shooting is lost.  After the Wyvern Battery fires, return to the original Barrage shot and resolve it and any remaining shots.  The Wyvern Battery may not fire in the following turn.

[duz_]

That would be fun!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I can agree about the wyvern, but the counter-barrage seems wonky. Maybe make it S6 AP4, heavy 4 large blast barrage?

 

Bassies are going to be hard to do, and D str, for the amount of access other armies have, doesn't seem unbalanced.

 

Taking units of 3 is the key here. Why is it unreasonable for a 3 bassie sqdn to drop an apoc blast D template, but not for a full sqdn of vindicators?

 

Now, maybe an alternative is to simply give the bassies strike down and make models under the template treat it as dangerous terrain.

 

Maybe wyverns should gain pinning and reduce the leadership of their target as their squadron bonus?

[Goonbandito]

Vindicators don't get Strength D; in a squadron of 3 they can shoot a single S10 AP2 Apocalyptic Blast with Ignores Cover.  Still pretty good, but given you have to get a squadron of 3 AV13/11/10 vehicles alive into 24" range its not particularly out of control.  Its definitely not an Apocalyptic Strength D blast from out of LoS on the other side of the table. 

 

Pinning would be a good rule, if most armies didn't simply ignore it.  And the armies it does affect (namely Orks and Chaos Space Marines) don't really need the further punishment.  Especially because Wyverns are so good already, particularly against Orks. 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I could have sworn vindicators got a d strength apoc blast. Ah well, then the strikedown and dangerous terrain rules would be good for bassies then.

 

That's certainly true about pinning, so what would you suggest, as I'm trying to force the unit to be useless for a turn.

 

Additionally, I'm thinking about giving platoons access to Crassus and Gorgon vehicles as dedicated transports, for the platoon numbering 35 and 50 models respectively.

 

I feel that's fair, since games that you'd consider that investment would be high point games.

[WarriorFish]

My idea from when I missed the right topic:

I was thinking that the extra pip in S and AP along with the huge blast radius made it pretty nasty along with barrage. Maybe S10 along with something like a re-roll on the scatter to represent the earth shattering pummelling they would delivery to the area making it hard to escape?

 

Pinning is sadly not a very useful rule I agree and while counter barrage is a cool idea I think it might be a bit too much faff? Maybe a bit simplified, so the return fire is done immediately after the effects of the enemy shooting attack are resolved?

[Goonbandito]

and while counter barrage is a cool idea I think it might be a bit too much faff? Maybe a bit simplified, so the return fire is done immediately after the effects of the enemy shooting attack are resolved?

That's what I was initially going to say, but then I realised that it serves no purpose. As in there is no difference in simply waiting until your turn to shoot. I think I wanted to act a little more like Interceptor, in that it gives you an out of sequence shooting attack to give you a chance to harm the unit before it can act fully. I was going to say you get to fire before they do, but I couldn't reconcile the abstract rule with the concept; how could a counter-battery fire before the target its firing at even reveals itself 0.o ?

[WarriorFish]

It's a bit difficult to judge, otherwise it may be unfair on your opponent. Perhaps it should be something like there's a roll after each enemy barrage/model resolution to see if you fire back then, doing so automatically at the end of the unit's shooting if you fail all the rolls. I thought something like a re-roll to show them zeroing in would also fit, but the Wyvern has re-rolls already! Or simply that it gets the "free" shot if the enemy targets something close enough by? Or maybe it's just not really going to work :P

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The Big thing that I'm thinking about for our vehicle squadrons is only really benefits for artillery. The Big thing I want tank squadrons to be able to do is split, so you can maximize your slots, but have the option to just casually move out of coherency, and fire independently. I think that the main strength of guard should be exploited, we do numbers, and making it so that the opponent has way more to shoot at than possible is probably the only way our army can compete.

 

I was also thinking, is there a world in imperial guard lore that fields more super heavy tanks than others?

[Captain General]

Tried to download the file, but in Dropbox, it says that it can't be read in dropbox, so I downloaded it, but it is in a .catz format, and nothing I have will read it. Do you have a "normal" format it is in?

 

 CG

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Ok, so you'll need battlescribe to utilize the catalog. Which isn't a big deal since battlescribe is still currently free. Since I'm still experimenting and still far from a finished product, I decided to go this route instead of making a text document army list. That way I can build rosters more easily, test rules, and see synergies, so I can improve the balance.

 

Once I have a product that is seeing less changes I'll put together a text Army list like you see in the Old IG book or the Imperial Armour books, for easier reference. That I will also link from my dropbox. Right now, I'm having less and less ideas to add, so I hope to have such a file created soon. I'll probably start work on it thursday, as that's my next day off of work.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

In case I hadn't said it. The catalog file should be updated as I have internet back. I still don't have an army list typed up. I'll get around to that at some point. There are tons of projects I'm trying to work on and I work full time, so there just isn't enough time.