Ultramarines Interlocking Tactics and Rapiers

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

I'm almost certain this will have already been asked but had no luck finding anything with the search function.

 

Can Rapiers be affected by the Interlocking Tactics rule? Common sense and the 'spirit of the game' would indicate a strong yes - where applicable of course, so really only laser destroyer arrays, heavy bolters and shatter shells would be affected - but I've had it argued against me that since it's the Legion crew and not the gun-piece itself that have the Legiones Astartes: Ultramarines rule, the Rapier wouldn't benefit.

 

Which is highly debatable for a number of reasons. However I'm really just interested if there's been a consensus reached elsewhere on this. My gaming group are for the most part very reasonable but it's good to know what the hive mind thinks.

 

Cheers,

 

Arkhan

[Reyner]

I would say yes since technically the crew fire the gun. 

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

^My thinking too.

[Xenith]

 but I've had it argued against me that since it's the Legion crew and not the gun-piece itself that have the Legiones Astartes: Ultramarines rule, the Rapier wouldn't benefit.

 

If that were the case, your tactical marines bolters do not have the LA: Ultramarines rule either. 

 

The gun cannot fire itself.

 

What would they say about an emplaced weapon? The quad gun doesnt have LA: UM?

[Major_Gilbear]

Heh, when I first skimmed the thread title, I thought it was about Ultramarines interlocking shields to form a Testudo! :P

 

Actually... That would have been really cool for a unit or Rite of War theme. Hmm.

[The Pounder]

As others have said the crew have the Legiones Astartes rule

therefore their weaponry would have it too.

Major_Gilbear, I had thought of that kind of force could

be great given the Roman theme attached to Ultramarines.

Suzerain are troops with Guilliman and back them up

with Breachers. Don't know how competitive it would be

but would look amazing!

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Competitive? This is 30k! The only thing that matters is loyalty to the Emperor (beloved by all) and the rule of cool! ;)

 

I'll reiterate that I also believe rapiers should benefit from the rule. I ran up against a couple types who were a little myopic in their reading of the rules and wished to consult with my B&C brothers. Thanks for the responses so far, I'm glad my understanding seems to be supported.

[Lord Blackwood]

Interlocking Tactics 

Whenever a unit with the Legiones Astartes ( Ultramarines)  special rule  makes a shooting attack against a target which has already been successfully hit in the same shooting phase by another Ultramarines unit * , they may  re-roll rolls of 1 to wound or penetrate the targets armor. This does not affect Snap Shots or Blast Weapons 

* For the purposes of this special rule, an Ultramarines unit is defined as any  unit in the same detachment drawn from the space marines  legion crusade army list  ( interesting since now we have a new red book )  except superheavy vehicles , flyers , servo -automata and battle -automata of any kind. 

Citation - The Horus Heresey Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Legion  page 60 


It is my  understanding after reading this rule that a rapier battery counts as an ultramarines unit as it is not  listed among the exceptions presented in the asterisk
Therefore it should be subject to interlocking tactics when firing in a mode that is not using a firing mode that utilizes a blast marker as per the rules for Barrage weapons in the basic rule book.
 

All Barrage weapons use blast markers and consequently use the rules for Blast weapons, as indicated by their profile,

 

Games Workshop Ltd. Warhammer 40,000 (Kindle Locations 10953-10954). 

 

So  the only time in which a Rapier Battery using the weapon Loadout of a Quad Mortar would be subject to interlocking tactics would be when firing directly with  Shatter shells , and even more narrowly when firing at a non vehicle target with shatter shells as it would already be re rolling to penetrate armor due to sunder. 

Assuming I have read and understood correctly the rules in question. 
 

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

^More or less, but it's worth noting that "Ultramarines units" are not the same as units with the Legiones Astartes: Ultramarines rule. The former group can shoot at a unit to 'mark' them and only the latter group can benefit from the 're-roll 1's to wound/penetrate' part of the rule. So, my Rhino can shoot that mob of Militia over there, and should it successfully hit them my Tacticals will now benefit from the re-roll. However, my Sicaran, bereft of other things to shoot, doesn't benefit at all.

 

It's not easy getting the most out of Interlocking Tactics, come to think of it.

[Marshal Rohr]

If go back to the bolter example. Artillery requires a crew the same way a bolter needs a shooter. This is one of those technicalish things I'm usually mistaken about so Slips or Bladewolf may have a better inkling. They're my go tos for rules.