Templars and Sigismund Colours Fluff?

[AfroCampbell]

Hey guys and gals,

curious question, but I was curious about the colouring of the Templar Brethren on FW website, I know they paint them up just according to the artists preference and they are not always a direct indication of any fluff, but i was curious of a few questions about IF fluff:

 

1) what colour were the Templar Brethren at the battle of Terra, or in ANY reference to them beforehand? I was under the impression that in the audiobook Templar they were yellow...?

 

2) are there any sources that state that Sigismund actually changed his armour black BEFORE the formation of the Black Templars? if so what are they?

 

 

[Slips]

1) There is literally no info on Templar Brethren outside of the FW books since they only came into being when the unit was created; same as Phalanx Warders, really.

 

2) Yes. Its after Dorn disowned him and he was named Emperor's Champion before/during the Siege.

[AfroCampbell]

1) There is literally no info on Templar Brethren outside of the FW books since they only came into being when the unit was created; same as Phalanx Warders, really.

 

2) Yes. Its after Dorn disowned him and he was named Emperor's Champion before/during the Siege.

 

I thought that was the case for the first one, just wanted to check, cos I was wondering about painting them up yellow maybe just thinking about fluff etc.

 

2) yea, I thought so, but I just want to find the source, is it in the old index astartes books, or art books or anything? or old codexes?

[Son of Carnelian]

I HAVE WAITED MY WHOLE LIFE FOR THIS QUESTION. 

 

1.) Okay, so everything we know about the Templar Brethren comes from Forge World, but the official coloring of them on the FW site makes no sense. Why would they wear black before Sigismund did? I can't imagine Sigismund would just wear regular yellow while everyone around him in the 1st Company wore black. Makes no sense. Templar Brethren should wear yellow, point blank because...

 

2.) Sigismund took the black when the Emperor named him his champion at the Battle of Terra. But older background materials states that this also represents Sigismund's personal heraldry. In donning the black and incorporating his heraldry (the Templar), this should represent a huge break from the existing traditions of the Imperial Fists if it has any weight narratively.

 

In conclusion, paint Templar Brethren yellow and disregard Forge World, paint Sigismund yellow before the Battle of Terra. Including in between getting disowned and the start of Terra. The whole point of this disowning was that it was a silent punishment that Sigismund would bear alone. He would not announce their dispute by painting his armor black. He does so only at the later request of the Emperor himself. 

[Slips]

Thing is, for the IF, Black has come to, in part, be an optional Veteran Color and/or Campaign Honor.

 

As seen here:

 

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Imperial-fist-heresy_Mk_IV.jpg?56750f

http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/uploads/gallery/album_20/med_gallery_69_20_204774.jpg

 

And then we have the Templar Painted in literally the same manner:

[AfroCampbell]

Yea i think its a little interesting that it happened that way. 

I have Extermination and so I had also thought of what Slips was getting at with the black colour scheme commonly being used by several notable Veteran units.

I think it makes sense that the Templars were yellow at least if Siggy was also yellow until Terra. 

I just struggle with the look of those Templars on FW, I dont know why, but they just dont seem to pop with me.... I am still trying to work out what I am going to do with Siggy to make him black, but somehow avoiding the slightly garish colouring on the Templar Brethren seen above...

I was thinking maybe do him full Black Templars colour?

[Legatus]

2) are there any sources that state that Sigismund actually changed his armour black BEFORE the formation of the Black Templars? if so what are they?

 

Well, this is the original first story of Sigismund, as it appeared in different 3rd Edition sources:

 

"Three heavy explosions nearby shook the crumbling walls. Chunks of debris rained down ontp the worn flags around where Brother Sigismund of the Imperial Fists knelt, his black power sword raised hilt-first in supplication. Neither he nor Chaplain Akrida flinched, nor the assembled squad of Battle Brothers. Such things were to be expected this close to the traitor's breakthrough. Chaplain Akrida placed the last purity seal upon the Imperial Fists Space Marine's blackened power armour. Brother Sigismund bowed his head once more before rising to his armoured feet. As one, the assembled Space Marines turned and filed into the Rhino waiting outside.

The Rhino was as cramped as it was noisy, rattling over rubble and shell holes towards the breach. Brother Sigismund gazed at the worn, pinched looking faces of his fellow Space Marines, warriors of the Imperial Fists Legion who had fought night and day for weeks defending the Imperial palace against the Traitor Legions. His heart swelled with pride that Rogal Dorn himself, Primarch of the Imperial Fists, had chosen Sigismund to be a champion of the Emperor. Only one thing disturbed him.

'Father Akrida, though I am humbled by the honour bestowed upon me, it still seems wrong to obscure the sacred colours of the Legion.'

'Fear not Brother Sigismund, Dorn himself ordered it to be so. Your heraldry has been changed to black to show that you serve the Emperor himself directly, as do myself and my fellow chaplains. As such you are marked out in the sight of the Emperor.'

Before Sigismund could reply the Rhino lurched to a halt. The Imperial Fists clamped their helmets and hefted their bolters with practiced ease, leaping out of the access doors without hesitation. Beyond lay a scene of carnage, of hell on Earth."

- 3rd Edition Chapter Approved 2003, p. 76

 

However, the reason for why the Black Templars Chapter has black armour may be a different one alltogether:

 

"It fell to Dorn to discover the bodies of the Emperor, Horus and Sanguinius after the final drama had run its course. His grief was immense. Until that point Dorn had been true, noble and enduring, but now he became an avenging son. While the Ultramarines maintained order within the Imperium, the Imperial Fists hunted down the traitors, levelling fortress after fortress. Dorn led them, dressed in the black of mourning , his customary mercy set aside until the guilty were punished. While others shaped the new Imperium, Dorn immersed himself in implacable justice. It was rumoured that he saw the Emperor's death as his personal failure and his crusade as penance."

(...)

"In the immediate aftermath of the Heresy, the Imperial Fists became noticeably fiercer in their approach - attacking with virtually no reconnaissance and fighting on when a tactical withdrawal would have been wiser. With their adoption of the Codex Astartes, this tendency was less evident, although their determination was undiminished. Some of the more fanatical Battle Brothers had departed to become the Black Templars - a Chapter on permanent crusade. Many of the more recent initiates, less rooted in the traditions and philosophy of the Fists, had departed to found the Crimson Fists. They quickly developed a reputation and a legacy of their own which was also a source of pride for the Imperial Fists. After the carnage of the Iron Cage, what remained was a hardened, veteran force fully able to embrace the concepts of the Codex Astartes."

- 3rd Edition Index Astartes Imperial Fists

 

"As did his brother Primarchs, he divided his Legion into three chapters: the die-hard followers of the Primarch retaining the livery and title of the Imperial Fists, the more zealous brethren becoming the Black Templars, and the more recently initiated and level-headed members, the Crimson Fists."

- 3rd Edition Index Astartes Crimson Fists

 

 

During the Souring, Dorn himself wore black armour, as a sign of mourning and, perhaps, also as a sign of penance. When the time came to divide the Legion, the more fanatical brothers who were still all too immersed in hunting down traitors were chosen to form the Black Templars Chapter. Sigismund was Chosen to lead them, and though he was wearing the black armour of the Emperor's Champion at that point, it is all too possible that the Black Templars chose black armour due to their dedication to Dorn's mourning/penance crusade against the traitors, and not because they all saw themselves as the Champions of the Emperor.

 

 

But then that is all "old" lore. Sigismund has now been changed from originally being just a humble Battle Brother, being chosen for his skill, into already having been the First Captain of the Imperial Fists Legion. The "Templars" were now said to have been a veteran formation of the Imperial Fists Legion. The whole origin of the Chapter is now completely changed. At least in the BL/FW continuity. It remains to be seen if BL/FW will ever describe the scouring and/or the splitting up of the Legions, and how they will then describe the formation of the Black Templars.

 

But that also does not really pertain to the Templar Brethren and their colour scheme, so sorry for the digression.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

2) are there any sources that state that Sigismund actually changed his armour black BEFORE the formation of the Black Templars? if so what are they?

Well, this is the original first story of Sigismund, as it appeared in different 3rd Edition sources:

 

"Three heavy explosions nearby shook the crumbling walls. Chunks of debris rained down ontp the worn flags around where Brother Sigismund of the Imperial Fists knelt, his black power sword raised hilt-first in supplication. Neither he nor Chaplain Akrida flinched, nor the assembled squad of Battle Brothers. Such things were to be expected this close to the traitor's breakthrough. Chaplain Akrida placed the last purity seal upon the Imperial Fists Space Marine's blackened power armour. Brother Sigismund bowed his head once more before rising to his armoured feet. As one, the assembled Space Marines turned and filed into the Rhino waiting outside.

The Rhino was as cramped as it was noisy, rattling over rubble and shell holes towards the breach. Brother Sigismund gazed at the worn, pinched looking faces of his fellow Space Marines, warriors of the Imperial Fists Legion who had fought night and day for weeks defending the Imperial palace against the Traitor Legions. His heart swelled with pride that Rogal Dorn himself, Primarch of the Imperial Fists, had chosen Sigismund to be a champion of the Emperor. Only one thing disturbed him.

'Father Akrida, though I am humbled by the honour bestowed upon me, it still seems wrong to obscure the sacred colours of the Legion.'

'Fear not Brother Sigismund, Dorn himself ordered it to be so. Your heraldry has been changed to black to show that you serve the Emperor himself directly, as do myself and my fellow chaplains. As such you are marked out in the sight of the Emperor.'

Before Sigismund could reply the Rhino lurched to a halt. The Imperial Fists clamped their helmets and hefted their bolters with practiced ease, leaping out of the access doors without hesitation. Beyond lay a scene of carnage, of hell on Earth."

- 3rd Edition Chapter Approved 2003, p. 76

However, the reason for why the Black Templars Chapter has black armour may be a different one alltogether:

 

"It fell to Dorn to discover the bodies of the Emperor, Horus and Sanguinius after the final drama had run its course. His grief was immense. Until that point Dorn had been true, noble and enduring, but now he became an avenging son. While the Ultramarines maintained order within the Imperium, the Imperial Fists hunted down the traitors, levelling fortress after fortress. Dorn led them, dressed in the black of mourning , his customary mercy set aside until the guilty were punished. While others shaped the new Imperium, Dorn immersed himself in implacable justice. It was rumoured that he saw the Emperor's death as his personal failure and his crusade as penance."

(...)

"In the immediate aftermath of the Heresy, the Imperial Fists became noticeably fiercer in their approach - attacking with virtually no reconnaissance and fighting on when a tactical withdrawal would have been wiser. With their adoption of the Codex Astartes, this tendency was less evident, although their determination was undiminished. Some of the more fanatical Battle Brothers had departed to become the Black Templars - a Chapter on permanent crusade. Many of the more recent initiates, less rooted in the traditions and philosophy of the Fists, had departed to found the Crimson Fists. They quickly developed a reputation and a legacy of their own which was also a source of pride for the Imperial Fists. After the carnage of the Iron Cage, what remained was a hardened, veteran force fully able to embrace the concepts of the Codex Astartes."

- 3rd Edition Index Astartes Imperial Fists

"As did his brother Primarchs, he divided his Legion into three chapters: the die-hard followers of the Primarch retaining the livery and title of the Imperial Fists, the more zealous brethren becoming the Black Templars, and the more recently initiated and level-headed members, the Crimson Fists."

- 3rd Edition Index Astartes Crimson Fists

 

During the Souring, Dorn himself wore black armour, as a sign of mourning and, perhaps, also as a sign of penance. When the time came to divide the Legion, the more fanatical brothers who were still all too immersed in hunting down traitors were chosen to form the Black Templars Chapter. Sigismund was Chosen to lead them, and though he was wearing the black armour of the Emperor's Champion at that point, it is all too possible that the Black Templars chose black armour due to their dedication to Dorn's mourning/penance crusade against the traitors, and not because they all saw themselves as the Champions of the Emperor.

 

 

But then that is all "old" lore. Sigismund has now been changed from originally being just a humble Battle Brother, being chosen for his skill, into already having been the First Captain of the Imperial Fists Legion. The "Templars" were now said to have been a veteran formation of the Imperial Fists Legion. The whole origin of the Chapter is now completely changed. At least in the BL/FW continuity. It remains to be seen if BL/FW will ever describe the scouring and/or the splitting up of the Legions, and how they will then describe the formation of the Black Templars.

 

But that also does not really pertain to the Templar Brethren and their colour scheme, so sorry for the digression.

It's the best out of universe explanation we have to date, though. The BT, and by extension the 1st company are tied to black heraldry because of the 2nd edition Templar model in all black with chest icon denoting company number. Since that model all iterations of Templars have featured black as part of their heraldry.