Praetorian of Dorn

[A D-B]

In this thread "swimming around" like a shark after blood is the guy that is going to kill my favourite caracther. Am I upset? Hella upset! RAWRRR

But I have come to terms that it is the nature of the fluff.

Just roll with the punches and enjoy the books for what they are.

Works of fiction, meant to entertain and tell stories of dystopian lands and futures.

Well I think the BT fans will have a heart attack if Abaddon beats Siggles like the red-headed step child he is

ADB will be cursed to high heaven for daring to touch the wayward boy-child known as Sigismund.

The complaints about how AL are treated in this book are a joke. The Legion with more plot armour that Tau.

ADB will be the target of a most holy crusade if happens in an unworthy manner.

I'll lead it myself. Sigismund is probably my favourite 40K character ever - at least in terms of his old, mythic lore. The idea of Sigsimund. This is going to hurt me as much as anyone.

Are we talking Legatus' favorite old lore, or just founder of the Templars still on the great crusade old lore?

Without knowing the specifics of the former but knowing Legatus and how rarely I disagree with him, it's probably both, and more besides.

[Marshal Rohr]

Legatus like to think of his Sigismund as a random guy who was selected to be emperors champion and not the first captain.

[b1soul]

 

 

Instead we read all the time about "sneaky-sneaky" Alpha Legion who are so smart they have a finger dipped everywhere but get their arses kicked when it comes to walk the walk.

 

When has the AL had their butts kicked?

 

Almost In every book about AL that has a major combat engagement of AL with somebody else including those where AL officially wins but at such a price it may as well be a failure.

Could you briefly describe a few specific examples (other than PoD)?

 

Saying "every book with AL" doesn't really help the discussion

[A D-B]

Legatus like to think of his Sigismund as a random guy who was selected to be emperors champion and not the first captain.

 

Ha! Awesome. Well, you've read Helsreach. For better or worse, that's more or less my view on Sigismund and the Templars.

 

 

 

 

 

Instead we read all the time about "sneaky-sneaky" Alpha Legion who are so smart they have a finger dipped everywhere but get their arses kicked when it comes to walk the walk.

When has the AL had their butts kicked?

 

Almost In every book about AL that has a major combat engagement of AL with somebody else including those where AL officially wins but at such a price it may as well be a failure.

Could you briefly describe a few specific examples (other than PoD)?

 

Saying "every book with AL" doesn't really help the discussion

 

 

It's a tricky topic, because I think both sides have the right of it in some/most of what they're saying. The Alpha Legion really haven't been shown as a Legion in the sense we know they are and that the Forge World books have shown them, and I'd be lying if I said it wasn't my biggest turn-off where they're concerned, too. But at the same time, as much as they're shown effortlessly infiltrating again and again and again, they're also not shown winning through those methods, either. So I can see what some people mean by putting forth the opinion that it's almost the worst of both worlds: they easily worm their way wherever the storyline needs them to be, but then rarely pull the trigger 100% on their plans and get things done once they're there.

 

When people ask me that old "What's the one Legion you don't like?" meme, I can honestly say that among the myriad Chapters and Legions - practically every single one of which inspires to want to write about them (to the point I genuinely never understand how people choose favourites) - that it's the Alpha Legion that I have zero interest in whatsoever. When John was first telling me about his ideas for Praetorian of Dorn, I was adamantly against it (I still remember his face falling in that restaurant...) saying that I was so tired of the super-spies that could go anywhere they liked and I didn't think we should encourage even more of it. "They're a Space Marine Legion," I said, "not a hundred thousand Space James Bonds."

 

But what convinced me was a threefold mix: 1. John is a stellar writer and I knew it would rock. 2. It would be the best (or at the very least, my favourite) version of that story, and I knew that I'd consider it the definitive one. I trusted him to redeem the concept for me. 3. It'd be the ultimate expression of that trope, not only done awesomely, but turned up to 11. Anything that followed it would by definition have to try something original with the Alpha Legion, because the best and most important reflection of it had been done.

 

And sure enough, Praetorian of Dorn easily stands in the very top tier of the Horus Heresy series now. I can no longer hate the trope the way I once did, because John redeemed it for me - and at the same time I can rejoice at hopefully not seeing it too much again.

[Guest]

 

 

 

It's a tricky topic, because I think both sides have the right of it in some/most of what they're saying. The Alpha Legion really haven't been shown as a Legion in the sense we know they are and that the Forge World books have shown them, and I'd be lying if I said it wasn't my biggest turn-off where they're concerned, too. But at the same time, as much as they're shown effortlessly infiltrating again and again and again, they're also not shown winning through those methods, either. So I can see what some people mean by putting forth the opinion that it's almost the worst of both worlds: they easily worm their way wherever the storyline needs them to be, but then rarely pull the trigger 100% on their plans and get things done once they're there.

 

When people ask me that old "What's the one Legion you don't like?" meme, I can honestly say that among the myriad Chapters and Legions - practically every single one of which inspires to want to write about them (to the point I genuinely never understand how people choose favourites) - that it's the Alpha Legion that I have zero interest in whatsoever. When John was first telling me about his ideas for Praetorian of Dorn, I was adamantly against it (I still remember his face falling in that restaurant...) saying that I was so tired of the super-spies that could go anywhere they liked and I didn't think we should encourage even more of it. "They're a Space Marine Legion," I said, "not a hundred thousand Space James Bonds."

 

But what convinced me was a threefold mix: 1. John is a stellar writer and I knew it would rock. 2. It would be the best (or at the very least, my favourite) version of that story, and I knew that I'd consider it the definitive one. I trusted him to redeem the concept for me. 3. It'd be the ultimate expression of that trope, not only done awesomely, but turned up to 11. Anything that followed it would by definition have to try something original with the Alpha Legion, because the best and most important reflection of it had been done.

 

And sure enough, Praetorian of Dorn easily stands in the very top tier of the Horus Heresy series now. I can no longer hate the trope the way I once did, because John redeemed it for me - and at the same time I can rejoice at hopefully not seeing it too much again.

 

 

See right here you nailed my dislike for AL above all, I really didn't like the Omnipotent/Omnipresence the AL had. I was saying to a friend the exact same thing regarding the James Bond analogy. 

[Legatus]

Legatus like to think of his Sigismund as a random guy who was selected to be emperors champion and not the first captain.

 

Well, not "random". According to his original short story he was just a Battle Brother, but he displayed such a skill at arms that he was honoured by his Primarch by being named the first Emperor's Champion, and later by being given his own newly formed Chapter to lead. For one I find that story more endearing than the already highest member of the Legion then being given the additional title "Champion of the Emperor". But perhaps more importantly, it made more sense with respect to the Black Templars and the use of the Emperor's Champion. The Emperor's Champion in 40K is not a Commander (in fact, he cannot be the armies commander), and the Black Templars' doctrines are utterly different from those of the Imperial Fists. Both makes sense if the original Emperor's Champion had not been a commander, and if the founder of the Black Templars had not been a seasoned officer of the Imperial Fists Legion. That is why the tradition for the Emperor's Champion to this day is to nominate the Brother with the greatest fighting skill, and not a Commander, and why Sigismund led his Chapter in a drastically different manner than would have been expected from an Imperial Fists Commander.

But if the Emperor's Champion now was supposed to having been the Commander of the Imperial Fists Legions First Chapter, then why is the Emperor's Champion in 40K not the title of the Black Templars Chapter Master or the Marshals? And why do the Black Templars not fight like the Imperial Fists Legion of old*?

 

(*I know that the Imperial Fists Legion has since been given a "Templars" Chapter to give a new explanation for their origin...)

[Perry]

This book gets a thumbs up from me not only because of the great Alpha v Fists action,

 

But because of the Volkites! If you like Volkites, this book is for you.

[Mellow]

I always thought the Alpha Legion gave the Space Wolves a thorough trashing in that space battle from that Novel I can't remember the name of (helpful I know).

[Fire Golem]

 

Legatus like to think of his Sigismund as a random guy who was selected to be emperors champion and not the first captain.

 

 

Ha! Awesome. Well, you've read Helsreach. For better or worse, that's more or less my view on Sigismund and the Templars.

 

 

 

 

 

Instead we read all the time about "sneaky-sneaky" Alpha Legion who are so smart they have a finger dipped everywhere but get their arses kicked when it comes to walk the walk.

 

When has the AL had their butts kicked?

 

Almost In every book about AL that has a major combat engagement of AL with somebody else including those where AL officially wins but at such a price it may as well be a failure.

Could you briefly describe a few specific examples (other than PoD)?

Saying "every book with AL" doesn't really help the discussion

 

It's a tricky topic, because I think both sides have the right of it in some/most of what they're saying. The Alpha Legion really haven't been shown as a Legion in the sense we know they are and that the Forge World books have shown them, and I'd be lying if I said it wasn't my biggest turn-off where they're concerned, too. But at the same time, as much as they're shown effortlessly infiltrating again and again and again, they're also not shown winning through those methods, either. So I can see what some people mean by putting forth the opinion that it's almost the worst of both worlds: they easily worm their way wherever the storyline needs them to be, but then rarely pull the trigger 100% on their plans and get things done once they're there.

 

When people ask me that old "What's the one Legion you don't like?" meme, I can honestly say that among the myriad Chapters and Legions - practically every single one of which inspires to want to write about them (to the point I genuinely never understand how people choose favourites) - that it's the Alpha Legion that I have zero interest in whatsoever. When John was first telling me about his ideas for Praetorian of Dorn, I was adamantly against it (I still remember his face falling in that restaurant...) saying that I was so tired of the super-spies that could go anywhere they liked and I didn't think we should encourage even more of it. "They're a Space Marine Legion," I said, "not a hundred thousand Space James Bonds."

 

But what convinced me was a threefold mix: 1. John is a stellar writer and I knew it would rock. 2. It would be the best (or at the very least, my favourite) version of that story, and I knew that I'd consider it the definitive one. I trusted him to redeem the concept for me. 3. It'd be the ultimate expression of that trope, not only done awesomely, but turned up to 11. Anything that followed it would by definition have to try something original with the Alpha Legion, because the best and most important reflection of it had been done.

 

And sure enough, Praetorian of Dorn easily stands in the very top tier of the Horus Heresy series now. I can no longer hate the trope the way I once did, because John redeemed it for me - and at the same time I can rejoice at hopefully not seeing it too much again.

Yeah. I'm a big Alpha Legion fan, but it was despite of the tropey plot hooks they've been in most of their appearances. I loved them in Legion and Serpent Beneath because they were different, intelligent and dangerous; and I loved them in Extermination because it showed they still worked as well as other Astartes in full scale war. PoD to me was a return to how they were in Legion, and I really liked their portrayal. They did very well but nothing felt over the top or too far, especially as a lot of it was set in motion before the heresy broke out. And I too hope that moving forward, the Alpha Legion are written differently.

[b1soul]

I'd be lying if I said it wasn't my biggest turn-off where they're concerned, too. But at the same time, as much as they're shown effortlessly infiltrating again and again and again, they're also not shown winning through those methods, either. So I can see what some people mean by putting forth the opinion that it's almost the worst of both worlds: they easily worm their way wherever the storyline needs them to be, but then rarely pull the trigger 100% on their plans and get things done once they're there.

 

Valid point

 

I especially disliked the AL's super-spy involvement in Deliverance Lost

 

When people ask me that old "What's the one Legion you don't like?" meme, I can honestly say that among the myriad Chapters and Legions - practically every single one of which inspires to want to write about them (to the point I genuinely never understand how people choose favourites) - that it's the Alpha Legion that I have zero interest in whatsoever.

For the longest time I thought it was the White Scars...

 

This is cause for selfish, selfish celebration

[JH79]

I always thought the Alpha Legion gave the Space Wolves a thorough trashing in that space battle from that Novel I can't remember the name of (helpful I know).

Over half of the Alpha Legion fleet did indeed lay the smack down on the Sons of Fenris in the wake of their assault on Prospero though not without extensive losses of their own while the remainder of the Alphas got to experience the middle finger from Jaghatai! The space wolves battle starts in the first 1/3 of the novel Scars (a book primarily about the White Scars!) and was concluded in the novella Wolf King. Both books are absolutely awesome reads with Wolf King being a very tense and nail biting affair.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

Legatus like to think of his Sigismund as a random guy who was selected to be emperors champion and not the first captain.

 

 

Well, not "random". According to his original short story he was just a Battle Brother, but he displayed such a skill at arms that he was honoured by his Primarch by being named the first Emperor's Champion, and later by being given his own newly formed Chapter to lead. For one I find that story more endearing than the already highest member of the Legion then being given the additional title "Champion of the Emperor". But perhaps more importantly, it made more sense with respect to the Black Templars and the use of the Emperor's Champion. The Emperor's Champion in 40K is not a Commander (in fact, he cannot be the armies commander), and the Black Templars' doctrines are utterly different from those of the Imperial Fists. Both makes sense if the original Emperor's Champion had not been a commander, and if the founder of the Black Templars had not been a seasoned officer of the Imperial Fists Legion. That is why the tradition for the Emperor's Champion to this day is to nominate the Brother with the greatest fighting skill, and not a Commander, and why Sigismund led his Chapter in a drastically different manner than would have been expected from an Imperial Fists Commander.

But if the Emperor's Champion now was supposed to having been the Commander of the Imperial Fists Legions First Chapter, then why is the Emperor's Champion in 40K not the title of the Black Templars Chapter Master or the Marshals? And why do the Black Templars not fight like the Imperial Fists Legion of old*?

 

(*I know that the Imperial Fists Legion has since been given a "Templars" Chapter to give a new explanation for their origin...)

I'm just teasing you, brother. :P Like the Ricky Bobby 'I like to think of my Jesus as' joke.

[Legatus]

I'm just teasing you, brother. Like the Ricky Bobby 'I like to think of my Jesus as' joke.

You know that I know that you know what I mean. I felt I better clarify my position for Aaron's benefit.

[Mellow]

 

 

I always thought the Alpha Legion gave the Space Wolves a thorough trashing in that space battle from that Novel I can't remember the name of (helpful I know).

Over half of the Alpha Legion fleet did indeed lay the smack down on the Sons of Fenris in the wake of their assault on Prospero though not without extensive losses of their own while the remainder of the Alphas got to experience the middle finger from Jaghatai! The space wolves battle starts in the first 1/3 of the novel Scars (a book primarily about the White Scars!) and was concluded in the novella Wolf King. Both books are absolutely awesome reads with Wolf King being a very tense and nail biting affair.

Thanks for clarifying the story names. I have read them but couldn't remember. I honestly thought the Wolves were goners! Even the power of a Primarch is useless against superior fleet tactics.

 

Just look at the Fist guy. Polux? He almost killed Mortarion. Which would have been great! It's a shame he had to sacrifice his victory because the voice of Dorn boomed across real space.

 

Wonder how he did that!

[Fire Golem]

 

 

I always thought the Alpha Legion gave the Space Wolves a thorough trashing in that space battle from that Novel I can't remember the name of (helpful I know).

Over half of the Alpha Legion fleet did indeed lay the smack down on the Sons of Fenris in the wake of their assault on Prospero though not without extensive losses of their own while the remainder of the Alphas got to experience the middle finger from Jaghatai! The space wolves battle starts in the first 1/3 of the novel Scars (a book primarily about the White Scars!) and was concluded in the novella Wolf King. Both books are absolutely awesome reads with Wolf King being a very tense and nail biting affair.

Thanks for clarifying the story names. I have read them but couldn't remember. I honestly thought the Wolves were goners! Even the power of a Primarch is useless against superior fleet tactics.

Just look at the Fist guy. Polux? He almost killed Mortarion. Which would have been great! It's a shame he had to sacrifice his victory because the voice of Dorn boomed across real space.

Wonder how he did that!

He almost killed Perturabo :)

[Brother-serpent Tylydox]

Could you briefly describe a few specific examples (other than PoD)?

 

Saying "every book with AL" doesn't really help the discussion

 

I could but not in this thread and not right now as I am supposed to move to a different place by the end of this month and a lot of my books are already packed away.  If you are still interested to to have a long conversation about it I will create a separate topic in a month a so after I moved and unpacked with all my books on hand.

[veterannoob]

Right im going to throw a spaniard into the works. It could be pure balderdash buuuut hear the theory out. For those that do not wish for spoilers dont read this next bit

the alpha legion have the necessary tools for cloning thanks to the raven guard/high probability they've seen what fabulous bile is up to, plot twist, although omegon felt the "death" is it not implausible that Alpharius had protocols for cloning in place given that we "know" guilleman kills someone he believes to be alpharius, also in hand with the information that it seemed apparent that omegons missions were directly at odds with alpharius (assumption that omegon wouldn't need to fight Bobby G)

Glad I waited to

Glad I waited to read this thread until I finished the book

**man, this thread is a nightmare on my mobile devices. Can't tell what is a spoiler or reply on the phone so hopefully nothing bad comes of this. **

So...After seeing the official stamp from The First Expedition I believe the real Alphy is dead.

But more importantly...I've never heard the phrase, "throw a spaniard into the works." Is this a fabulous autocorrect typo, or a barbaric practice of hurling fine Europeans into clockwork gears? I must know more!

[veterannoob]

Anyone think that;

 

 

We might actually get it confirmed that they were triplets, not just twins?

 

With Silonius being revealed as a primarch. Allowing him to die at Eskrador, and Omegon to become Janus?

 

We've already had it established that the twins kept secrets from one another. What if Alpharius kept Silonius a secret from Omegon because Omegon grew up on Terra rather than with Alphie himself?

 

Alpharius is definitely dead though, I've seen Aaron and Laurie confirm that in writing.

 

 

 

I had a list of many speculations and every time someone online said ZOMG it's surprizzzze I read new speculations in, like, everything. But one big one was da triplets. What actually happened was much lower on the list. I honestly up until that point expected it to be something with the Luna folks, surprise Saint! returns, or something pre- or Unification era, like a horde of Thunder warriors kept secret (or something alike [Outcast Dead???]) to join the good guys.

[Loesh]

 

Legatus like to think of his Sigismund as a random guy who was selected to be emperors champion and not the first captain.

 

Ha! Awesome. Well, you've read Helsreach. For better or worse, that's more or less my view on Sigismund and the Templars.

 

 

 

 

 

Instead we read all the time about "sneaky-sneaky" Alpha Legion who are so smart they have a finger dipped everywhere but get their arses kicked when it comes to walk the walk.

When has the AL had their butts kicked?

 

Almost In every book about AL that has a major combat engagement of AL with somebody else including those where AL officially wins but at such a price it may as well be a failure.

Could you briefly describe a few specific examples (other than PoD)?

 

Saying "every book with AL" doesn't really help the discussion

 

 

It's a tricky topic, because I think both sides have the right of it in some/most of what they're saying. The Alpha Legion really haven't been shown as a Legion in the sense we know they are and that the Forge World books have shown them, and I'd be lying if I said it wasn't my biggest turn-off where they're concerned, too. But at the same time, as much as they're shown effortlessly infiltrating again and again and again, they're also not shown winning through those methods, either. So I can see what some people mean by putting forth the opinion that it's almost the worst of both worlds: they easily worm their way wherever the storyline needs them to be, but then rarely pull the trigger 100% on their plans and get things done once they're there.

 

When people ask me that old "What's the one Legion you don't like?" meme, I can honestly say that among the myriad Chapters and Legions - practically every single one of which inspires to want to write about them (to the point I genuinely never understand how people choose favourites) - that it's the Alpha Legion that I have zero interest in whatsoever. When John was first telling me about his ideas for Praetorian of Dorn, I was adamantly against it (I still remember his face falling in that restaurant...) saying that I was so tired of the super-spies that could go anywhere they liked and I didn't think we should encourage even more of it. "They're a Space Marine Legion," I said, "not a hundred thousand Space James Bonds."

 

But what convinced me was a threefold mix: 1. John is a stellar writer and I knew it would rock. 2. It would be the best (or at the very least, my favourite) version of that story, and I knew that I'd consider it the definitive one. I trusted him to redeem the concept for me. 3. It'd be the ultimate expression of that trope, not only done awesomely, but turned up to 11. Anything that followed it would by definition have to try something original with the Alpha Legion, because the best and most important reflection of it had been done.

 

And sure enough, Praetorian of Dorn easily stands in the very top tier of the Horus Heresy series now. I can no longer hate the trope the way I once did, because John redeemed it for me - and at the same time I can rejoice at hopefully not seeing it too much again.

 

 

Gee thanks ADB, now I have to go buy Praetorian of Dorn.

 

I thought with the relatively slow rolling out of new Emperors Children and Word Bearers content I might have some free spending money. No, no I won't. 

 

Grumbles

[Roomsky]

Here's my review of Praetorian of Dorn. Spoiler tags for the uninitiated.

Horus Heresy Book 39: The Holy Quotient

Holy , that was one hell of a book. I didn't think it could beat Path of Heaven, but this is a masterpiece.

John has always been a weird author for me. He'd never written anything bad, and hell, The Last Remembrancer was downright amazing. But for some reason i still cannot identify, some kind of warp incursion clouding my judgement most likely, I couldn't get into his stuff. It was fine, don't get me wrong, but not great.

But then, I read this.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/017/613/1426467217270.jpg

My face, upon completing Praetorian of Dorn

I don't know what he did, but John has ascended, at least in my eyes, and has delivered one of the strongest books the heresy's had in years.

The Good

John French is the only author who writes Dorn as anything other than an angry piece of wood. What's more, he's supremely likeable in his stubbornness, no easy feet. The moment where he schooled Alpharius on strategy was just beautiful. What's more, as John mentioned in the afterword, we get to see more of Dorn's character arc, and his fears about what will be left behind in the battle against Horus.

The Fists are presented well, too. Archamus was a pretty cool d00d, and his backstory made him quite likeable. It was a good story choice to have the one guy who might challenge Regal Door's booming commands at the forefront. I'm a little sad we didn;t get more Siggy, as he was my favourite part of The Crimson Fist, but as many have said, it wasn't his story.

The whole story was a triumph in Alpha Legion writing. We didn't have to wait 350 pages of "Nyo ho ho, soon our nebulous plan will be complete, and all the inane you've bared witness to shall be given purpose." Instead, we got an immediate demonstration of the effects of, like, 10 dudes. This opening salvo of confusion makes their actions for the remainder of the story actually gripping, because you have already seen their effectiveness. What's more, in following them around we get a glimpse into how, while it seems like a series of flawlessly executed plans from the loyalist side, the actual astartes executing these plans encounter frequent stumbling blocks.

But what really sets this book apart for me was the plotting. While I still don;t think John's prose can compete with Aaron's or Chris', his plotting was phenomenal. It was a very well-paced web of character and events that, as any great plot should, weaved flawlessly together by the end. Maybe its just because so many Heresy books are rather straight-forward, even the likes of Legion, who seem straight-forward until a subversion at the end instead of keeping the mystery high throughout. Bravo, John French, you kicked this one out of the park.

And man, that final battle.

http://pre14.deviantart.net/445d/th/pre/i/2014/292/3/5/jontron___majestic__by_mechanicorga-d83g5mx.jpg

The Bad

There wasn't much, TBH.

As many have said, the flashback in the middle went a little too long. I feel what it set out to do could have been done in far less time. I guess we needed to know that Archamus was really good at being a Space Marine, but I think Dorn's trust already implied that well enough.

The space battle before the primarch fight was also a little meh. John is a master of suspense and character, but seeing such straightforward action didn't really play to his strengths. It was nice to see the Alpha's, and later the Fists, just decimate their opponents, but there wasn't any real tension. It was an overwhelming advantage for one side, which lacked tension because none of the important characters were really in harms' way except Siggy, and we know he'll be fine.

But the few negatives do little to tarnish this brilliant book, one which is now number 3 in my top Heresy entries. When your competition is, like, 600 other stories, you know you're a cut above the rest.

[veterannoob]

Yeah, only part for me that could be even close to a con would be the long flashbacks. I feel they could've been around half as long, though maybe it was more because I was racing to discover this sublime ending before looking at the Internet accidently ruined it for me. :) 

[Augustus]

I, too, prefer the old lore where Sig is "just" a battle brother. Too much of the Heresy has the same movers and shakers of 40k as the movers and shaker of 30k.

[Reldn]

Sounds like I need to nab this book ASAP. Seems like it might be what helps me restore my love for the Imperial Fists, and even help me in liking the Alpha Legion again.

[Marshal Rohr]

I, too, prefer the old lore where Sig is "just" a battle brother. Too much of the Heresy has the same movers and shakers of 40k as the movers and shaker of 30k.

Yeah, but like Sig's only time is the Heresy (and now getting a sword in the face by Abaddon). He's the definition of hero of a bygone age.

 

My point is he's totally dead in 40k. Like for thousands of years.

[karden00]

 

I, too, prefer the old lore where Sig is "just" a battle brother. Too much of the Heresy has the same movers and shakers of 40k as the movers and shaker of 30k.

Yeah, but like Sig's only time is the Heresy (and now getting a sword in the face by Abaddon). He's the definition of hero of a bygone age.

 

My point is he's totally dead in 40k. Like for thousands of years.

Yeah? And? It's been Ten Thousand Years. The whole point of 40k is that it is At Best a far cry, a whimper, an echo, of what could have been on the eve before the heresy started.

 

Sigismund is a marine, and as such, he most certainly dies.

 

If you think he won't get quite a bit of spotlight before all is said and done, you really haven't been paying attention. I don't mean to be rude, but cmon, you think GW and BL don't understand how fan service works? Siggy will get plenty of good treatment before the end. It's not just Black Templars that love what he brings to the narrative.