Nemisor Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 right here we go. i'm pretty shocked at the death of Alpharius........and not in a good way. but i think there are a few ways it can be fixed later. my feelings are it seems a bit odd for Legion to drop a bomb like the twins and then for someone else to come and undo that. so... its a little unclear as to whether Alpharius had silonius's memory's dumped on top of his or they did a full captain Ginu body swap. if they did swap its possible that Alpharius mind could somehow find its way back to his body. by itself or through a bunch of libbys plucking his soul from the warp. or if it was all Alpharius that was killed ( as people keep insisting ) its possible that two more Alphari ( ? ) could be created. when Silonius tasted the blood and got a flash of memory, he had a vision of being hit by a bolt shell, the feeling of being ripped in two, blinding light then death/rebirth. what if the reason there are twins is that when Alpharius gets killed he splits and his soul is reborn into two more bodies....a bit like a Hydra ( funny that ). the first time being the raid on horus's ship when they first met creating omegon, and this time creating 2 more Alphari. all in all a decent book though......apart from the end.........for me anyway............well at least we have a spare i guess. and now i hate Dorn, so there's that. and if all that fails i really hope its Omegon that cuts of that big golden tools hands like someone else mentioned You are entitled to dream at this point its all i have Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4503814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Nah, he dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4503815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemisor Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Nah, he dead. in that case i guess theres always all the cloney stuff they nicked from the Raven guard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4503826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 It's cool to know everything is possible but I'm curious to see how the story goes from here, or if the "lore" changes. even. Who will be the next to go??? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4503829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 It wasn't Alpharius. It was Guilliman brainwashed into thinking he was Alpharius, that's why Dorn knew it was another Primarch. The real Alpharius is standing right behind Sanguinius in the defunct Imperium Secundus. Alpharius kills Omegon on Eskrador. Boom. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4503831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 It wasn't Alpharius. It was Guilliman brainwashed into thinking he was Alpharius, that's why Dorn knew it was another Primarch. The real Alpharius is standing right behind Sanguinius in the defunct Imperium Secundus. Alpharius kills Omegon on Eskrador. Boom. Just reading that made my head hurt Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4503842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 It's cool to know everything is possible but I'm curious to see how the story goes from here, or if the "lore" changes. even. Who will be the next to go??? My guess: The Serpent Beneath certainly implies that Omegon is either in cahoots with Malcador or has infiltrated his Knights Errant. It also certainly implied that, despite apparently being of one mind at the end of Legion, Omegon was working against Alpharius. Alpharius apparently believed that the Emperor had to lose so that Humanity would be extinguished for the good of the Galaxy. If Omegon is opposed to him, reason stands that he's covertly undermining the traitors' efforts to prevent the Emperor from losing. This may mean that Omegon maintains a facade of being Alpharius while maintaining his own pro-Imperial efforts. I imagine this will eventually lead to Omegon either dying, becoming one of the original eight Grand Masters of the Grey Knights (the name Janus certainly fits him to a tee), or dying after assuming that rank. The Alpha Legion will be primarch-less, but they will nonetheless follow the ideals espoused by their primarch(s), with an ever-shifting chain of command, dizzyingly complex stratagems, and far-sighted machinations. As far as who is the next primarch to go? Technically, speaking, Alpharius getting killed was only possible by virtue of him being made into "twin primarchs" in Legion. If that hadn't happened, then technically another primarch wasn't due to die until after the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4503846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 It wasn't Alpharius. It was Guilliman brainwashed into thinking he was Alpharius, that's why Dorn knew it was another Primarch. The real Alpharius is standing right behind Sanguinius in the defunct Imperium Secundus. Alpharius kills Omegon on Eskrador. Boom. Nice, lol It's cool to know everything is possible but I'm curious to see how the story goes from here, or if the "lore" changes. even. Who will be the next to go???My guess: The Serpent Beneath certainly implies that Omegon is either in cahoots with Malcador or has infiltrated his Knights Errant. It also certainly implied that, despite apparently being of one mind at the end of Legion, Omegon was working against Alpharius. Alpharius apparently believed that the Emperor had to lose so that Humanity would be extinguished for the good of the Galaxy. If Omegon is opposed to him, reason stands that he's covertly undermining the traitors' efforts to prevent the Emperor from losing. This may mean that Omegon maintains a facade of being Alpharius while maintaining his own pro-Imperial efforts. I imagine this will eventually lead to Omegon either dying, becoming one of the original eight Grand Masters of the Grey Knights (the name Janus certainly fits him to a tee), or dying after assuming that rank. The Alpha Legion will be primarch-less, but they will nonetheless follow the ideals espoused by their primarch(s), with an ever-shifting chain of command, dizzyingly complex stratagems, and far-sighted machinations. As far as who is the next primarch to go? Technically, speaking, Alpharius getting killed was only possible by virtue of him being made into "twin primarchs" in Legion. If that hadn't happened, then technically another primarch wasn't due to die until after the Heresy. Infiltrated Knight Errants? Where was nothing that implies that kind of infiltration. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4503988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 HeritorA, You kind of defeat the point of a spoiler when you openly post something that was in the spoiler text itself. It's how I interpret the ending of The Serpent Beneath, quoted below. “The primarch activated the chamber’s floating lumen orbs. His arming cabinet was open, and his operational plate – a suit indistinguishable from that of any other Alpha Legionnaire – sat on its reinforced frame. His boltgun, blade and pistol were displayed also, as well as his helmet, which seemed to fix him with the dead gaze of its blank optics. Beside it, covered by a loose shroud, was his other suit of armour. To the casual eye, it was plain and unadorned.” Excerpt From: edited by Christian Dunn. “The Primarchs.” Black Library, 2012-05. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright. The Knights Errant are specifically described as fighting in unadorned battle plate. Example: “Sitting cross-legged before the altar was a bearded, tattooed warrior in the unadorned plate of the Knights Errant.” Excerpt From: McNeill, Graham. “Vengeful Spirit.” Black Library, 2014-05. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
no I'm alpharius Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 No, wait a second, that bit about a Hydra regrowing its head does make a certain amount of sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Yes, because they all take an aspect from their a Father. ... and He never had that ability. So no. I shouldn't think so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Emperor and Vulkan both have that ability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Not completely separate copies though. Always the original only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAlephNull Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I'm real curious to see if John French will open up a little bit about why the decision was made to Off Alpharius this early in the Horus Heresy Series. It does just seem like an incredibly abrupt and potentially wasted opportunity from Legion. I go back and forth. There is no doubt in my mind that it is a great book, I'm just not sure about that ending. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 because otherwise it means no traitor Primarchs die? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is. The AL have trolled everybody so far, it was bound to end some time. Besides, it's not like they don't have a second Primarch or cloning technology to mess around with Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 because otherwise it means no traitor Primarchs die? Hi Im Horus and this is jackass. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 because otherwise it means no traitor Primarchs die? It's always been that way way. Besides Horus, the traitors lose more after the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
no I'm alpharius Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I'm real curious to see if John French will open up a little bit about why the decision was made to Off Alpharius this early in the Horus Heresy Series. It does just seem like an incredibly abrupt and potentially wasted opportunity from Legion. I go back and forth. There is no doubt in my mind that it is a great book, I'm just not sure about that ending. it was one of the few "wait, what, no ... wat" moments I've had. So AS LONG AS they build on it appropriately, I'm all for it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 because otherwise it means no traitor Primarchs die? It's always been that way way. Besides Horus, the traitors lose more after the Heresy. It's always been that way no longer applies. This is hardly the first change to the older, looser established lore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I didn't say it didn't change. I'm saying that it's always been that really no traitor primarchs died. And I don't really expect that to change. I don't have a problem with the changes, either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 In two books : "Nah, he's a Perpetual, he's fine". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 because otherwise it means no traitor Primarchs die? evening out the deaths is a poor reason. no traitor primarchs dying until post heresy always worked just fine before. there needs to be a stronger narrative/thematic reason for this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4504962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I think it would be great if they mixed it up and changed some of the older lore. It would be ... refreshing. They probably won't though. I mean the rumoured rewrite saying Horus kills The Emperor and ends up powering the Golden Throne via the power of the Primordial Annihilator is just ironic and awesome at the same time. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4505669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulemain Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 You know, from all I've read of the Imperial Fists, they actually remind me of a modern 21st Century military, once stripped of the whole "Crusader" thing. The emphasis on precision, on ranged firepower, the combined arms tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324545-praetorian-of-dorn/page/15/#findComment-4505760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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