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Have you guys had problems playing with 30k in GW stores?


chosen40k

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Finally two mates are GW managers and company policy does not allow the banning of GW or FW product from the stores unless you'd like to apply for another job once a complaint goes to HQ.

 

 

I wasn't aware of this. 

End of discussion as I see it.

 

 

Finally two mates are GW managers and company policy does not allow the banning of GW or FW product from the stores unless you'd like to apply for another job once a complaint goes to HQ.

 

 

I wasn't aware of this. 

End of discussion as I see it.

 

They'd get a dressing down first but upsetting customers to the point they are complaining to HQ isn't going to see you in a job long term.

 

This is similar to those that said veteran gamers were banned from the tables in GW stores a few years ago, it did happen but it wasn't HQ policy it was used by some managers to push out those that blocked stores paint stations and tables but spent little money. Plus some managers were very over zealous in how they interpreted the message from HQ about more beginners.

 

I support GW Managers who enforce a no FW policy.

Reason why?

It affects their sales. These guys are sales people first, hobbyists second. Their continued employment depends on how much product goes through their tills, unfortunately FW does not.

When people see a premium product like FW models that on average cost more than GW models people will want some, they might deside to buy a Spartan or Lightning fighter instead of a Plastic Land Raider or Storm Talon. This harms a stores sales.

The whole reason for GW to allow gamers to play instore is to advertise the 40k, AoS hobby, not FW models.

You could use the argument that GW owe people the right to use GW tables to game, but I disagree. GW have a huge range of products to promote home or store gaming, they even sell gaming boards. A GW store will always be a one stop shop for everything you need for your hobby needs, being able to play 40k there is just a bonus

I think this is wrong on a few counts.

Forge World is GW product and it's been stated time and again by GW that this is so, how many other companies products are shown in White Dwarf weekly? Well Forge World products are quite often in WD with a two page spread, along with staffers FW armies.

So customers can already look at Forge World product in store they just can't order it.

Secondly, I guess you've heard of the Internet? msn-wink.gif Well any GW customer that cares to look can link directly to Forge World from the GW main site and look at all the pretty 30k stuff with multiple angle pictures and order online.

Finally two mates are GW managers and company policy does not allow the banning of GW or FW product from the stores unless you'd like to apply for another job once a complaint goes to HQ.

I think you missed my point about stores and sales targets ;)

Why you can't order forge world models through your local GW store with free shipping to store has never made sense to me.

 

I suspect it has to do with volume. By making it easier to acquire, the volume of product required would increase, and while FW has recently invested to produce more product it hasn't always been the case. They just don't/didn't have the necessary man-power.

 

Cheers,

Jono

I support GW Managers who enforce a no FW policy.

Reason why?

It affects their sales. These guys are sales people first, hobbyists second. Their continued employment depends on how much product goes through their tills, unfortunately FW does not.

When people see a premium product like FW models that on average cost more than GW models people will want some, they might deside to buy a Spartan or Lightning fighter instead of a Plastic Land Raider or Storm Talon. This harms a stores sales.

The whole reason for GW to allow gamers to play instore is to advertise the 40k, AoS hobby, not FW models.

You could use the argument that GW owe people the right to use GW tables to game, but I disagree. GW have a huge range of products to promote home or store gaming, they even sell gaming boards. A GW store will always be a one stop shop for everything you need for your hobby needs, being able to play 40k there is just a bonus

I think this is wrong on a few counts.

Forge World is GW product and it's been stated time and again by GW that this is so, how many other companies products are shown in White Dwarf weekly? Well Forge World products are quite often in WD with a two page spread, along with staffers FW armies.

So customers can already look at Forge World product in store they just can't order it.

Secondly, I guess you've heard of the Internet? msn-wink.gif Well any GW customer that cares to look can link directly to Forge World from the GW main site and look at all the pretty 30k stuff with multiple angle pictures and order online.

Finally two mates are GW managers and company policy does not allow the banning of GW or FW product from the stores unless you'd like to apply for another job once a complaint goes to HQ.

I think you missed my point about stores and sales targets msn-wink.gif

Your point on sales targets was moot msn-wink.gif

Its not cut and dry like that. Its not black or white. The question is QUANTITY.

To your example, how many sales on land raiders will they miss out on because someone saw someone else playing a Spartan?

Is a Spartan at the price point of a Land Raider? Is a Spartan at the point cost of a Land Raider? Can a Spartan be taken as a dedicated transport or be used in a formation?

No.

But say someone does decide to buy that Spartan. Will there be enough people like that to actually make a noticeable difference in the sales at the end of the day for that store when taking in all other factors, increase in traffic due to 30k offering another system for people who dont want 40k, return of older players who no longer play 40k, ect ect...

No, thats highly unlikely to be even noticeable.

In fact, im making the argument that the opposite would be the result.

I support GW Managers who enforce a no FW policy.

Reason why?

It affects their sales. These guys are sales people first, hobbyists second. Their continued employment depends on how much product goes through their tills, unfortunately FW does not.

When people see a premium product like FW models that on average cost more than GW models people will want some, they might deside to buy a Spartan or Lightning fighter instead of a Plastic Land Raider or Storm Talon. This harms a stores sales.

The whole reason for GW to allow gamers to play instore is to advertise the 40k, AoS hobby, not FW models.

You could use the argument that GW owe people the right to use GW tables to game, but I disagree. GW have a huge range of products to promote home or store gaming, they even sell gaming boards. A GW store will always be a one stop shop for everything you need for your hobby needs, being able to play 40k there is just a bonus

I think this is wrong on a few counts.

Forge World is GW product and it's been stated time and again by GW that this is so, how many other companies products are shown in White Dwarf weekly? Well Forge World products are quite often in WD with a two page spread, along with staffers FW armies.

So customers can already look at Forge World product in store they just can't order it.

Secondly, I guess you've heard of the Internet? msn-wink.gif Well any GW customer that cares to look can link directly to Forge World from the GW main site and look at all the pretty 30k stuff with multiple angle pictures and order online.

Finally two mates are GW managers and company policy does not allow the banning of GW or FW product from the stores unless you'd like to apply for another job once a complaint goes to HQ.

I think you missed my point about stores and sales targets msn-wink.gif

Your point on sales targets was moot msn-wink.gif

Its not cut and dry like that. Its not black or white. The question is QUANTITY.

To your example, how many sales on land raiders will they miss out on because someone saw someone else playing a Spartan?

Is a Spartan at the price point of a Land Raider? Is a Spartan at the point cost of a Land Raider? Can a Spartan be taken as a dedicated transport or be used in a formation?

No.

But say someone does decide to buy that Spartan. Will there be enough people like that to actually make a noticeable difference in the sales at the end of the day for that store when taking in all other factors, increase in traffic due to 30k offering another system for people who dont want 40k, return of older players who no longer play 40k, ect ect...

No, thats highly unlikely to be even noticeable.

In fact, im making the argument that the opposite would be the result.

I don't think we will agree on this one ;)

Would be nice to hear from any GW staffers about the pressures of sales... and missed sales.

The OPs response didn't sound like a FW ban, it sounded like the manager was going to try and focus on the stuff that makes him money, which is entirely fair. I'm not saying managers should forbid forge world, but I am saying it's entirely their prerogative not to go out of their way to facilitate heresy stuff like exclusive heresy games nights. Most stores I've been in have a solid equilibrium like that. Players are more than welcome to come and play 30K during open gaming.

I support GW Managers who enforce a no FW policy.

Reason why?

It affects their sales. These guys are sales people first, hobbyists second. Their continued employment depends on how much product goes through their tills, unfortunately FW does not.

When people see a premium product like FW models that on average cost more than GW models people will want some, they might deside to buy a Spartan or Lightning fighter instead of a Plastic Land Raider or Storm Talon. This harms a stores sales.

The whole reason for GW to allow gamers to play instore is to advertise the 40k, AoS hobby, not FW models.

You could use the argument that GW owe people the right to use GW tables to game, but I disagree. GW have a huge range of products to promote home or store gaming, they even sell gaming boards. A GW store will always be a one stop shop for everything you need for your hobby needs, being able to play 40k there is just a bonus

I think this is wrong on a few counts.

Forge World is GW product and it's been stated time and again by GW that this is so, how many other companies products are shown in White Dwarf weekly? Well Forge World products are quite often in WD with a two page spread, along with staffers FW armies.

So customers can already look at Forge World product in store they just can't order it.

Secondly, I guess you've heard of the Internet? msn-wink.gif Well any GW customer that cares to look can link directly to Forge World from the GW main site and look at all the pretty 30k stuff with multiple angle pictures and order online.

Finally two mates are GW managers and company policy does not allow the banning of GW or FW product from the stores unless you'd like to apply for another job once a complaint goes to HQ.

I think you missed my point about stores and sales targets msn-wink.gif

Your point on sales targets was moot msn-wink.gif

Its not cut and dry like that. Its not black or white. The question is QUANTITY.

To your example, how many sales on land raiders will they miss out on because someone saw someone else playing a Spartan?

Is a Spartan at the price point of a Land Raider? Is a Spartan at the point cost of a Land Raider? Can a Spartan be taken as a dedicated transport or be used in a formation?

No.

But say someone does decide to buy that Spartan. Will there be enough people like that to actually make a noticeable difference in the sales at the end of the day for that store when taking in all other factors, increase in traffic due to 30k offering another system for people who dont want 40k, return of older players who no longer play 40k, ect ect...

No, thats highly unlikely to be even noticeable.

In fact, im making the argument that the opposite would be the result.

I don't think we will agree on this one msn-wink.gif

Would be nice to hear from any GW staffers about the pressures of sales... and missed sales.

Well I am told that currently the sales bonus is under review as it does not function as intended, the talk was it would be replaced as it's not a large part of the managers salary. That's not to say this is the case for all nationalities in the GW universe as I would fully expect contracts to be set nationally rather than over the full comany at store level.

Plus the money for FW goes towards keeping the stores open. 

 

Specifically more sales at that store simply affect the managers bonus (assuming they have them). 

 

Soooo it'd be a dick move for a manager to forbid it because it'd be down to him wanting to earn more, rather than it being down to him wanting what's best for the company. IMO this is a job that is for those who love it, not for those who want to make cray cash.

 

My local positively encouraged FW. The guy (he has left now, sadface) had 2k points of RG/WB/NL/DG and was always up for playing. I think he just got bored of playing against 12 year olds with the same lists from 40k over and over! 

To be fair, the compensation structure seems to be self defeating. Should a store manager ban FW? Absolutely not. Should GW establish policies so that managers have no desire to do so? Absolutely yes.

 

The idea that it effects profit, is a fallacy, as people who buy Forgeworld also buy Core products. They also have a potentially higher disposable income. To piss them off is to shoot yourself in the foot, as they already know how to use direct order. Furthermore irritated customers talk lots, and happy customers rarely do. So you both reduce prospective sales, and you run the risk of having your name poisoned to other players.

 

Poor business sense drives these decisions. Keeping customers and potential customers happy is half the battle of successful enterprise.

 

He may not get a profit out of it it you're still buying from the same company, and pushing people away isn't going to generate more sales. I'm glad those kinds of people are rare.

For the company as a whole, sure. But think in the context of the single man store outfits and the guy running them. He doesn't have a crew to help out and he can't hire more staff to run a lot of events. His job may be to sell games, but his job isn't a game if that makes sense. He's gotta support himself by keeping his job.

If you feel like being a wiener is justified to keep your job, you're in the wrong line of work IMO.

The funy thing is, strict 30k players still need tools, brushes, glue, paint etc...

 

Even terrain, and technically thanks to stagnation of tech, almost all the core 40k space marine kits were around during the HH. Mark 7 at the siege of terra for example. So if he was smart he could simply encourage other players to pick up 30k rules to play against you, and build legit (albeit atypical) forces from GW kits.

 

One could plop down a whole pile of mark 6 and 7 marines from Gw kits and say, oh yeah these are my imperial fists at the siege of terra after recovering gear from mars. Done, whole army in GW plastic, legit and fluff accurate/acceptable.

 

 

Of course encouraging 30k to help him sell all his B@C boxes wouldn't be a bad idea either...

That's a very strange attitude for the store to have, considering GW are literally pushing a Horus Heresy range in stores right now.

 

Some people still seem to have an anti-Forgeworld attitude. This is very antiquated considered the official GW website and almost all issues of White Dwarf can lead you to Forgeworld - not to mention the booklet found in the BaC boxset that advertises units like the Primarchs!

 

If it becomes a problem I suggest you pose the question to GW directly.

I can tell you that in my local store we have Forgeworld units on display including a 30k Imperial Fist army!

Tomorrow evening I have a 30k Ultras v Salamanders battle scheduled there :-D

Also, consider if OPs store is brand new it makes sense to keep the 30k events to a minimum at the beginning because it's hard to explain how 30k works to new players. The entrance 'tax' of the big black books for specific legions background, the fact it's ordered from overseas, and working with resin are a little daunting if you're just getting into the game. The first forge world models I ever bought were Krieg models and to this day they remain unbuilt and unpainted in my bits boxes :D

I'd say it would be very weird to disallow someone to use a GW product in a GW store at all.  I could see "no, you can't play someone with a 40k army with your 30k army", but a "you two can't play your 30k battle on my tables" is silly.

 

While I understand the fact that the GW store doesn't get money from your FW purchases, it still sells not just BaC but the new Legion sets (3 of them), Rhinos, Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders, Bikes, Land Speeders and Drop Pods, all of which have a home in 30k, just with different(ish) rules.  You can still push your own product en masse, even if you don't sell some of the boutique resin products, and if you don't know how to use the low cost of the BaC set as a selling feature to start a 30k army, you shouldn't be a salesperson.

I think it's sad that there are still some store managers out there that won't allow Forgeworld. I've never had an issue with it, and it contrasts so hard with my own experience.

 

The manager at the GW store I frequent always buys my buddies and I soda and pizza when we come in because he claims he sells much more product when we're there. He claims his sale increase because folks who walk in (who are normally there for a quick browse) get captivated by the unusual models and fully painted heresy armies leading them to hang around for hours and buying.

 

I truly wish that could be the same experience for every heresy player. Maybe some of the folks who are having trouble with their managers could mention my experience. Maybe it'd give the manager a reason to second guess themselves.

Personally.. I own Chaos Dwarfs and Sons of Horus. These are my only armies and I never had problems fielding them. I buy colours, brushes, books, calth.. so the argument someone isn't making money is only halfwax true. On top of this, each autum we make a big order in our Gw where we buy FW stuff which goes onto the GWs account via a german games con. I only order small stuff like decals or conversion stuff throughout the year so.. I would consider myself more than "fair". Beside this.. here are several members into 30k, including our local gw staff. So no problems with FW here.

For my 30K ultras I went with 40k vehicles, because I prefer the blocky look, and the price...

 

I was talking to my manager about this type of thing, and he has had a bad time facing 30k armies all the time at a gaming club. But regardless he still lets people do whatever at his store. No playing your 30k army against a 40k army though. :p

 

As long as the people that come in with FW stuff don't sit there taking up space, never buy anything, and loudly pronounce FW as the messiah he's fine with it. I think that's the attitude I'd take too, personally.

To be fair if your playing over 1750 and know roughly which army your oppent is bringing a 30k play will steam roller most 40k armies not due to better list but that when the big toy start to appear and the 40k player lack of knowledge of the 30k lists

Honestly just show up at the store and put your toys on the table. Take out your 30k marines for your game and act like its the most casual thing in the world. If anyone comes up and starts whining at you look at them like theyve got 3 heads. Question them, ask why, if they say FW rules are too strong point at the eldar book and laugh.

 

The reality is that if they tell you you cant use your toys in the store theyre telling you not to come to the store.

If someone in my local GW told me not to come to the store I'd be pretty annoyed and would send a messege to head office about it. I won't be excluded from a gaming group because I've invested in higher quality miniatures from a division of the same company and someone objects to it for no reason.

Honestly just show up at the store and put your toys on the table. Take out your 30k marines for your game and act like its the most casual thing in the world. If anyone comes up and starts whining at you look at them like theyve got 3 heads. Question them, ask why, if they say FW rules are too strong point at the eldar book and laugh.

 

The reality is that if they tell you you cant use your toys in the store theyre telling you not to come to the store.

If someone in my local GW told me not to come to the store I'd be pretty annoyed and would send a messege to head office about it. I won't be excluded from a gaming group because I've invested in higher quality miniatures from a division of the same company and someone objects to it for no reason.

The Eldar comment is so on point!

Im sorry, but IMO most revisited 40k armies with formations (SM codex and later) are point for point more powerful than 30k armies.

On a one to one basis 40k armies will outperform 30k. 

There is no reason for a 40k player to be making the argument that they cant keep up with 30k other than the fact that they personally arent familiar with the units they are facing in 30k.

ROWs can be good, but they cant hold a candle to 40k formation bonuses.

Free transports for all, are you kidding me!

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