Have you guys had problems playing with 30k in GW stores?

[Canadian_F_H]

 

 

Honestly just show up at the store and put your toys on the table. Take out your 30k marines for your game and act like its the most casual thing in the world. If anyone comes up and starts whining at you look at them like theyve got 3 heads. Question them, ask why, if they say FW rules are too strong point at the eldar book and laugh.

 

The reality is that if they tell you you cant use your toys in the store theyre telling you not to come to the store.

If someone in my local GW told me not to come to the store I'd be pretty annoyed and would send a messege to head office about it. I won't be excluded from a gaming group because I've invested in higher quality miniatures from a division of the same company and someone objects to it for no reason.

The Eldar comment is so on point!

Im sorry, but IMO most revisited 40k armies with formations (SM codex and later) are point for point more powerful than 30k armies.

On a one to one basis 40k armies will outperform 30k.

There is no reason for a 40k player to be making the argument that they cant keep up with 30k other than the fact that they personally arent familiar with the units they are facing in 30k.

ROWs can be good, but they cant hold a candle to 40k formation bonuses.

Free transports for all, are you kidding me!

Perhaps with the exception of orks, and nids... and the freshly hamstrung dark eldar... those three I don't think particularly outshine anything I've heard about 30k lists...

 

Tho honestly I would love to see some battles with legion armies stomping out some xenos infestations of those sorts.

[Theredknight]

 

 

Honestly just show up at the store and put your toys on the table. Take out your 30k marines for your game and act like its the most casual thing in the world. If anyone comes up and starts whining at you look at them like theyve got 3 heads. Question them, ask why, if they say FW rules are too strong point at the eldar book and laugh.

 

The reality is that if they tell you you cant use your toys in the store theyre telling you not to come to the store.

If someone in my local GW told me not to come to the store I'd be pretty annoyed and would send a messege to head office about it. I won't be excluded from a gaming group because I've invested in higher quality miniatures from a division of the same company and someone objects to it for no reason.

The Eldar comment is so on point!

Im sorry, but IMO most revisited 40k armies with formations (SM codex and later) are point for point more powerful than 30k armies.

On a one to one basis 40k armies will outperform 30k.

There is no reason for a 40k player to be making the argument that they cant keep up with 30k other than the fact that they personally arent familiar with the units they are facing in 30k.

ROWs can be good, but they cant hold a candle to 40k formation bonuses.

Free transports for all, are you kidding me!

You forget the 'skyhammer' formation, relentless assaulting marines on t1, yay that's so cool!

 

This is the reason why droves of us turned to 30k in the first place, if your playing 40k lists like that, you need to have a word with yourself and seek fellow heresy players and get away from taudar lists as you don't have to play that anymore.

 

The Bligh protects.

[m0nolith]

 

 

Honestly just show up at the store and put your toys on the table. Take out your 30k marines for your game and act like its the most casual thing in the world. If anyone comes up and starts whining at you look at them like theyve got 3 heads. Question them, ask why, if they say FW rules are too strong point at the eldar book and laugh.

 

The reality is that if they tell you you cant use your toys in the store theyre telling you not to come to the store.

If someone in my local GW told me not to come to the store I'd be pretty annoyed and would send a messege to head office about it. I won't be excluded from a gaming group because I've invested in higher quality miniatures from a division of the same company and someone objects to it for no reason.

The Eldar comment is so on point!

Im sorry, but IMO most revisited 40k armies with formations (SM codex and later) are point for point more powerful than 30k armies.

On a one to one basis 40k armies will outperform 30k.

There is no reason for a 40k player to be making the argument that they cant keep up with 30k other than the fact that they personally arent familiar with the units they are facing in 30k.

ROWs can be good, but they cant hold a candle to 40k formation bonuses.

Free transports for all, are you kidding me!

You forget the 'skyhammer' formation, relentless assaulting marines on t1, yay that's so cool!

 

This is the reason why droves of us turned to 30k in the first place, if your playing 40k lists like that, you need to have a word with yourself and seek fellow heresy players and get away from taudar lists as you don't have to play that anymore.

 

The Bligh protects.

 

But the reality is, unless you are very very lucky in the player community you are surrounded by, you are going to play against 40k armies. 

Thats just a given taking in account the current presence of 30k.

But luckily thats changing. More and more players are coming in every day and a lot of older, ex "im never going to play another game of 40k!" players are coming back to playing 30k. Not to mention the fact that there are a lot more players since the release of the Calth box.

[Lord Blackwood]

Or you play against folks like me who are colossal scumbags and are super nice to you  while slaughtering what you put on the table with a sharply tuned skew list.  

Hey man you want a soda ?  I got you!   By the way you can just pick that unit right there off the table , ill be right back. 

= w =  ./walks over to the counter to collect soda , and a napkin for your tears 

[Theredknight]

Or you play against folks like me who are colossal scumbags and are super nice to you while slaughtering what you put on the table with a sharply tuned skew list.

 

Hey man you want a soda ? I got you! By the way you can just pick that unit right there off the table , ill be right back.

 

= w = ./walks over to the counter to collect soda , and a napkin for your tears

If you get a bottle of soda, you can use it to collect the tears in afterwards

[Rites of War]

Historically I have come across some GW stores in the UK that didn't want people playing 30K games in store. Their reasoning was that it wasn't sold in store and didn't support the systems that they sold. I don't agree with that but it wasn't my store so I politely left and didn't return.

 

Nowadays I don't know any GW stores that have a problem with Forge World or 30K being played there. Quite a few local ones actively try to encourage 30K and have events for it alongside other systems.

[Canadian_F_H]

I just don't get that... almost everything vanilla space marines have is left over designs from the very close of the HH.

 

Mark 6 and 7 power armour are both from during the heresy.

 

The 40k tactical marines bolter pattern was also available during the heresy.

 

The 40k patern rhino chassis was also available to.

 

And so was Indomitus Terminator armour.

 

 

 

Any sales man who kicks you out because 30k doesn't support his product isn't much of a salesman.

[RandomMarine]

Tbf mk7 and the indominitus pattern didn't really show up till the siege of Terra in significant numbers and the indomnitus doesn't have rules in 30k

[amazarak]

The indomitus pattern terminator armor is simply called 'terminator' armor; as opposed to Tartaros or Cataphractii. It's rules are on page 133 of the LA: AoD army book.

[Slips]

Indomitus has been around before the Heresy Begun. The only difference would be the lack of a Crux Terminatus.

 

The only fluff reason for why its prevalent in 40k is because Tartaros (the most advanced) and Cataphractii (the most complex) were just too difficult to maintain during the 10k years of technological decay/stagnation.

[Black Cohort]

There is no reason why a HH army list couldn't be used to represent a scouring force that would have plenty of reason to have plenty of Mk6, 7 and Indomitus armour

[Canadian_F_H]

There is no reason why a HH army list couldn't be used to represent a scouring force that would have plenty of reason to have plenty of Mk6, 7 and Indomitus armour

Or siege of terra for that matter.

 

So a full siege of terra imperial fist army built entirely out of GW plastics should be completely legitimate. (Excluding crux terminus on terminators and veterans etc but that can be done if you try a little)

 

 

If I was a diehard 30ker... and I had a shortage of other players, I would find the 40ker with the biggest collection of marines or csm and show him the 30k books and how to build a few viable lists with his/her existing collection. A comp player should enjoy the challenge of a new game, and a fluffy player should enjoy a game in a retro aka historical setting.

[Theredknight]

Going back to it, it depends if that store allows proxies. Some do, some don't.

 

I don't mind playing a proxy game, it's how you get people baited and wishing they had cool models like yours

[Black Cohort]

Going back to it, it depends if that store allows proxies. Some do, some don't.

 

I don't mind playing a proxy game, it's how you get people baited and wishing they had cool models like yours

[Canadian_F_H]

Going back to it, it depends if that store allows proxies. Some do, some don't.

 

I don't mind playing a proxy game, it's how you get people baited and wishing they had cool models like yours

[PMB]

Historically I have come across some GW stores in the UK that didn't want people playing 30K games in store. Their reasoning was that it wasn't sold in store and didn't support the systems that they sold. I don't agree with that but it wasn't my store so I politely left and didn't return.

 

Nowadays I don't know any GW stores that have a problem with Forge World or 30K being played there. Quite a few local ones actively try to encourage 30K and have events for it alongside other systems.

 

My local store manager is a great guy.  Can always pop in and talk the wider GW/Forgeworld/specialist games part.  He's very enthusiastic about the direction GW is going as for him, like myself and a lot of others on here, it was the original GW boxed sets that first got us dipping our foot in the hobby, whether space crusade/blood bowl/space hulk/etc.  

 

However he doesn't do 30k gaming instore and I understand the reasons for it.  It's a small store with a couple of gaming tables and at the end of the day he is there to sell GW product and get new people into the hobby.   How "successful" that store and he is perceived as internally within the company is based on sales of AoS/40k and accessories.

 

Ask any salesman the following.  If you have a finite amount of time and resources to sell a variety of product, some product enables you to hit your company targets/commission, other's don't, which of those products are you going to put your time and effort into selling?  Yeah, that's a rhetorical question.

 

What I'm trying to say is don't hate on the GW store managers for not playing 30k instores.  They're making a living selling GW product and some of the stores are very small.  If the stores start stocking 30k/specialist games then that will change (gimme a store run blood bowl league or even better a country wide campaign and I'll be happy as Larry).  

[PMB]

Whoops quoted wrong post, meant to quote the following in my reply.

 

I just don't get that... almost everything vanilla space marines have is left over designs from the very close of the HH.

Mark 6 and 7 power armour are both from during the heresy.

The 40k tactical marines bolter pattern was also available during the heresy.

The 40k patern rhino chassis was also available to.

And so was Indomitus Terminator armour.



Any sales man who kicks you out because 30k doesn't support his product isn't much of a salesman.

[Soldier of Dorn]

 

My local store manager is a great guy.  Can always pop in and talk the wider GW/Forgeworld/specialist games part.  He's very enthusiastic about the direction GW is going as for him, like myself and a lot of others on here, it was the original GW boxed sets that first got us dipping our foot in the hobby, whether space crusade/blood bowl/space hulk/etc.  

 

However he doesn't do 30k gaming instore and I understand the reasons for it.  It's a small store with a couple of gaming tables and at the end of the day he is there to sell GW product and get new people into the hobby.   How "successful" that store and he is perceived as internally within the company is based on sales of AoS/40k and accessories.

 

Ask any salesman the following.  If you have a finite amount of time and resources to sell a variety of product, some product enables you to hit your company targets/commission, other's don't, which of those products are you going to put your time and effort into selling?  Yeah, that's a rhetorical question.

 

What I'm trying to say is don't hate on the GW store managers for not playing 30k instores.  They're making a living selling GW product and some of the stores are very small.  If the stores start stocking 30k/specialist games then that will change (gimme a store run blood bowl league or even better a country wide campaign and I'll be happy as Larry).  

 

 

But that's the thing: Heresy players still buy standard GW product, even before the advent of the Betrayal at Calth: they bought paint, glue, other various supplies, and even models - many use 40k tanks and use 40k power armor kits as, effectively, upgrade kits. Now, many players are becoming attracted to the Heresy because of the (still relatively new) plastic kits, and veteran players are picking them up to add to their existing armies, but if you disallow use of those models within your store, you are not giving your potential customers reason to patronize your store. Why should they support a location that they cannot utilize properly? I buy everything from my local GW - all my paints, all my kits, pretty much everything besides Forge World product and my super glue (I'm not paying almost $10 for 2g of glue when I can get twice that amount for half as much. I'm not entirely insane. I do get a lot of plastic glue from them) - because they provide a local community where I can go in and chat, build and paint, and play on a nice table. It's not cheap, and I am perfectly capable of going online and getting most of that at a much lower price, but I do it because it supports that community and that store. If that community did not exist, I would not support it.  It's as simple as that. If I can't do this at a GW location, I have no reason to buy from them. Beyond that, someone in this thread said that it is contrary to official GW corporate policy for stores to do such as you describe. I have no idea if this is true or not, but I would be surprised if it is wholly false. If it is true (and please, someone try to confirm this) then what your manager is doing is an overstepping of his power. While he is in charge of the store, as with most positions of power, there is a limit to his power, and that lies with Corporate. He is in a position of management, not dictatorship, and if he does anything that does not fall within the limitations of his authority, one is well within their rights to contact Corporate and complain.

 

Finally, to disallow a customer from playing with a 30k army on the basis that it does not support your store is no more reasonable than banning anyone who has bought models prior to coming in the store or using models that are now OOP- the models they have already bought do not prevent them from buying the product presented within the store. You could argue that they promote a product that takes away from that store's profits, but I think most (if not all) GW fans who don't buy FW already are drooling over the models on their website, and I can't say that I've seen a FW model in store that's ever convinced someone to order one if they did not already (somewhat) regularly buy FW items. Honestly, I just think it's a silly argument. I can understand disapproving of third-party items unlicensed by GW such as Kromlech and Anvil Industries models, but FW is firstly authorized by Games Workshop to create models and rules set in the 40k universe and secondly owned fully by Games Workshop and its employees.

 

With that, I would humbly suggest to the moderators to close this thread. This argument is one that has kept repeating itself for almost two and a half pages now, and it shows no sign of abating anytime soon. Everyone has a different perspective on things, and I've never seen anyone convinced by an argument on the Internet, ever. I'm not sure we're even on the original topic of "whether we've had trouble playing in a GW store before" anymore...

[PMB]

Maybe I should have been clearer.   No problem whatsoever using 30k  models instore as a 40k army, but not 30k models playing 30k games as per the heresy ruleset.  If someone won't let you play 40k using 30k models, well (IMHO) thats them just being a dick.  Theres a few of them out there.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Still it's not fair at all. And FW is part of GW so it makes no sense whatsoever.

[Grotsmasha]

Maybe I should have been clearer.   No problem whatsoever using 30k  models instore as a 40k army, but not 30k models playing 30k games as per the heresy ruleset.  If someone won't let you play 40k using 30k models, well (IMHO) thats them just being a dick.  Theres a few of them out there.

 

See, this what I don't understand. Sure, if he doesn't want to TEACH 30k/supervise a game, fair enough, but to say to two independent gamers, who are using GW models, "hey you can't use that GW (FW IS GW) Rulebook here" boggles my mind.

 

Cheers,

Jono