Lore question about BA look

[m0nolith]

1.

From what I understand, and correct me if im wrong, the Blood Angels didnt have that pale vampiric complexion unitl after Sanguinius died, but when did they develop the fangs, pre or post the death of Sangunius?

Is it the natural result of the BA gene seed or a mutation that occurred post Heresy?

 

[Helias_Tancred]

I always thought they [fangs] were present. Part of the legacy of Sanguinuis's genetic stock. As far as being pale, I've never seen that described in what I've read. Where were you reading that Blood Angels had a pale vampiric complexion?

[LutherMax]

Well, Mephiston does :D

 

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/DefaultBL/xlarge/Mephiston-Lord-of-Death.jpg

 

I'm not the whole chapter has that extreme an aesthetic. General marines seem to be more 'normal' looking. Fair-skinned perhaps but not exactly pale and vampiric:

 

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111005144042/warhammer40k/images/b/b1/Cruor_Angelus_by_MajesticChicken.jpg

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Po8CaOiAl_0/Ui4FgzjpWjI/AAAAAAAABEA/YFJh_7wufSo/s1600/Blood+Angels+Cover.jpg

 

http://www.wallpaperhi.com/thumbnails/detail/20120206/warhammer%2040k%20space%20marine%20concept%20art%20adrian%20smith%20blood%20angels%20tycho%201280x1843%20wallpaper_www.wallpaperhi.com_58.jpg

 

Although this guy is kinda pale:

 

 

And this guy is fairly vampiric:

 

http://pre08.deviantart.net/cf61/th/pre/i/2014/059/2/2/warhammer_40k_death_company_blood_angels_tribute__by_pierreloyvet-d743sbx.jpg

 

 

Personally I hate the whole vampire thing - I wish that idea had died a death in the head of whoever came up with it. I much prefer the Greek / Roman / Renaissance inspirations and I'm SOOO happy Forge World are going down that route with our Heresy-era design...

[Xenith]

It seems that certain Blood Angels get he pale complexion - the above sources, and Astorath is noted to have almost pure white skin , although I feel that this might have been the author mistaking Astoraths death mask for his face on they painted model.

[The Unseen]

It seems that certain Blood Angels get he pale complexion - the above sources, and Astorath is noted to have almost pure white skin , although I feel that this might have been the author mistaking Astoraths death mask for his face on they painted model.

 

That was my conclusion as well. I figure that either the Baalite tribes themselves, or some quirk of the gene seed pushes them towards pale(ish) skin. Were certainly not pale like the Raven Guard.

 

The sharpened eye-teeth were I believe always present. They aren't nearly pronounced enough to earn the term fangs. Leave that to the wolves, who actually get fangs.

[Frater Antodeniel]

As currently described in the Fluff, Sanguinius had a "Divine" appearance, Like the Emperor himself. This means that like the Emperor, Sanguinius appearance, on a lesser degree, reflected the "perfection" in the eyes of those who looked at him. Also, Sanguinius amongst all the Primarch was the closest of a Real son for the Emperor, both psychically and physically. Thus, given the fact that the Emperor is of Caucasian origins (Through the mortal appearance means little for the Emperor), it point to the fact that Sanguinius is of Caucasian gene-type too.

 

About the "palish" skin, it seems to be part of the Gene-seed, like the blond hairs. It is logical and scientifical to imagine that the more a Blood Angels grow older, the more his skin and hairs whitened. This way, the most ancient of Sanguinius Sons, would have a white/pale skin and blond/silver/white hairs.

 

For the "Fangs", it is also a Caucasian Gene-type legacy, more precisely the Neanderthalian part of it. this Canine Tooth evolution is caracterized by more "developped" Canine. (In fact, the Canine where just longer than other tooth, and it is believed that some central european caucasian population carried a "strong" version of this gene, and thus, it may had leads peoples to add this fact into the Vampires myths).

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

All those informations point to this conclusion :

 

Those who receive the Blood Angels gene-seeds, have their skin and "hairs" (Not only those on the heads, but all over the body) that become white over time, until it become pale, and have developed Canine-tooths that, while not being like the Space Wolves one, are nonetheless more developped than the regular human standard. (Though it may depend of the world of recruitment of the Chapter, for Gene-seeds tend to evolve through time, even if they retain the fondamental core changes.)

[Leonaides]

Blood angels have functioning melanchrome organ so their skin colour will vary dependant on how much sunlight/uva/uvb/radiation they have been exposed to recently. So stationed on baal they'll probably end up with a good tan fairly quickly!

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Also according to the old creation of the space marines fluff, every Astartes has slightly enlarged canines and can taste chemicals/poisons/etc in any substance and self-analyze - but it also mentions that the Blood Drinkers have 'extra long' canines and have been known to drink blood for more than just investigational purposes.

 

I think that stuff was written prior to the Blood Angels story though, I was definitely in an Index Astartes book but I think also in the Rogue Trader book or one of the early compediums.

[Xenith]

Here's a thought.

 

Space marines can access the thoughts and memories of an organism by eating it's flesh, drinking it's blood, etc.

 

All aspirants drink the blood of Sanguinius (contained within the high priests) to activate the transformation.

 

By drinking the blood of Sanguinius, the aspirant accesses his last memories...which include being torn apart on the Vengeful Spirit. Unsurprisingly, the aspirant then falls into a coma.

 

Does the Blood Angels own initiation ritual implant the gene memory that causes the Black Rage?!

[LutherMax]

Here's a thought.

Space marines can access the thoughts and memories of an organism by eating it's flesh, drinking it's blood, etc.

All aspirants drink the blood of Sanguinius (contained within the high priests) to activate the transformation.

By drinking the blood of Sanguinius, the aspirant accesses his last memories...which include being torn apart on the Vengeful Spirit. Unsurprisingly, the aspirant then falls into a coma.

Does the Blood Angels own initiation ritual implant the gene memory that causes the Black Rage?!

Seems legit.

[Plokoone]

I hadn't thought of that Xenith, but if it were the case it would mean the blood they're giving to recruits was taken from Sanguinius after his death.

 

Is it specified if Sanguinius' corpse was drained before he was entombed?

[Tyriks]

Sanguinius was psychic. He had premonitions of his death. They could remember his very vivid premonitions, at the very least.

[The Red Thirst]

Does the Blood Angels own initiation ritual implant the gene memory that causes the Black Rage?!

All signs point to 'Yes' Brother. 

 

On the note of the Blood Angels being 'pale' and have 'vampire' qualities, I personally think all established chapters in the Codex represent a different aspect of Sanguinius, the Blood Angels are his nobility, the Blood Drinkers, his Thirst, the Flesh Tearers, his Rage, the Angels Sanguine, his aloofness ... so on and so forth. 

 

However with the obvious wink wink nudge nudge of Khorne corruption in the gene-seed I believe the Legions blood drinking tendencies are more in line with general bloodlust as opposed to the traditional Vampire lore of being dependent on Blood to sustain themselves, (Note: Blood Drinkers are the closest in established lore to Vampires) the Blood Angels even going so far as to avoid drinking blood unless partaking in Chapter rituals.

 

As far as the 'pale' skin goes, with the exceptions of the Raven Guard and Salamanders, all Astartes can, through the Melanochrome inplant, change skin tone due to exposure to high levels or radiation, I dont believe ive read anywhere in established lore the note this implant in the Blood Angels gene-seed to be flawed (though if you do find a reference id love to read it, knowledge is power)

[Xenith]

I hadn't thought of that Xenith, but if it were the case it would mean the blood they're giving to recruits was taken from Sanguinius after his death.

 

Is it specified if Sanguinius' corpse was drained before he was entombed?

 

Yes, the Priests took the remainder of Sanguinius's still living blood and injected it into their veins to keep it alive - they then empty a little into the grails and serve it to aspirants.

[Leonaides]

Around now is when i tend to also point out its not just the blood that was taken from his corpse. The blood angels legion genestores on terra were destroyed in the fighting and the progenoids and all the implants had to be recultured from samples taken from his body after death too.

[Frater Antodeniel]

Around now is when i tend to also point out its not just the blood that was taken from his corpse. The blood angels legion genestores on terra were destroyed in the fighting and the progenoids and all the implants had to be recultured from samples taken from his body after death too.

 

You forgot about Alpharius, and the fact that he is in possession of every Primarch Gene-code and Their Legion terranian gene-seed samples....

[Charlo]

Do remember too that the Primarch's blood in our case is integral to the creation of new marines and it has always been a lengthier and more complicated process than with other legion genomes (source - HH Book 6)

 

So it's kind of cool that we cannot be made without the blood, but because of how he fell, it could be what dooms us too?

 

I also really like the Fluff about Sanguinius having no real set appearance, people see what they want to in him because of his psychic aura, like the Emperor.

[Spagunk]

What blood that was left after Sanguinius died was saved in stasis and is said to have been injected into the Sanguinary Priests at some point. Though I forget where it was written, I am certain that the Priesthood has strict guidelines on how blood it transferred between the Priests to keep that blood as "pure" as they can. So they maintain a level of Sanguinius' blood through the ensanguination process which is sadly being diluted over time.

[LutherMax]

I also really like the Fluff about Sanguinius having no real set appearance, people see what they want to in him because of his psychic aura, like the Emperor.

Interesting challenge for the Forge World design team when they come to creating the model for him :D

[Charlo]

I also really like the Fluff about Sanguinius having no real set appearance, people see what they want to in him because of his psychic aura, like the Emperor.

Interesting challenge for the Forge World design team when they come to creating the model for him

Hehehe

Well really his general appearance (blonde, Caucasian, glowing, radiant etc) is what most people see most of the time because of how it works. But my personal opinion is that he can turn into the pale-skinned, dark haired angel of death in times of stress or will at least appear as such to his enemies.

Probably not true, but that's my thought/ interpretation.

[LutherMax]

Forge World can cite this law to anyone who criticises the sculpt:

 

You see what you want to see...

Joking aside, are there many descriptions of him in fluff, novels etc? I remember thinking there were some contradictions (maybe for this very reason)...

[The Unseen]

The only contradiction I can think of is exactly once he was described with dark hair, but every other time has been blonde.

[Xenith]

The only contradiction I can think of is exactly once he was described with dark hair, but every other time has been blonde.

 

That's because

 

 

 

 

I also really like the Fluff about Sanguinius having no real set appearance, people see what they want to in him because of his psychic aura, like the Emperor.

 

I think the dark hair was in Horus Rising, and was a boo boo on the part of the author, later explained by his shifting perception.

 

[Arkangilos]

I thought his dark hair was a result of him being in mourning, so he dyed it. I guess that's just fan interpretation?

 

So LutherMax, you hate what has defined the BA since second edition? They were far more vampiric back in the day than now, with the lore actually literally calling The BA Vampires. Mephiston had to actually stop to drink blood after every close combat, etc.

 

As to the pale skin, like others have said, all of their organs work which means the skin color will change based on radiation levels.

[LutherMax]

That was it - I remember reading dark hair in Horus Rising but have heard light hair in every other description. So the shifting appearance thing was just to cover up a mistake?!

 

@ Arkangilos, yeah I'm afraid I'm not keen on that concept and I'm glad we've moved away from it!