Jareddm Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I think something needs to be made clear before the fluff-nazis get involved and start being obnoxious. The FW horus heresy books outline the origins of the Black Shields as a mixture of loyalist marines who where originaly part of traitor legions, broken legion marines and renegades who either refuse to take a side or just go rogue. The Deathwatch RPG strongly suggests that 40k Blackshields are members of existing, loyal chapters who have a need to repent, avenge or atone for something and serve untill they feel that deed is achieved. Agreed on the first point, but not so much on the second. There is clear precedent for potential renegades to seek absolution through the long vigil. A clear cut example would be an Astral Claw who stood watch during the Badab war. After the war, he retains his oath of loyalty to the Imperium and sheds his heraldry and takes up the black shield. The example/description given by both the codex and FFG material articulate key points. 1st. it is the Watch Commander's choice on if a potential black shield is taken. 2. It is understood that once the watch commander is satisfied with the blackshield applicant, that no further questions will be asked about the black shield's history while under the aegis of the deathwatch. Thus... it is theoretically possible for a former traitor to serve within the Deathwatch. But, there is something to be said about those traitors who would be considered veterans of the long war. It is extremely unlikely that such a marine would be accepted by a Watch Commander, especially in the modern timeline at 40K. I'd also like to point out: Black shields are rare among the Deathwatch. Where they exist, they generally are given the more dangerous, long term, and distance assignments. This is in part because these breed of marines seek out the worst assignments as a form of penance for previous misdeeds or affiliations. Therefore, it is also unlikely that a black shield will live for very long in the vigil. Just some thoughts. Keep in mind that the Deathwatch RPG is set before the Badab War, so the Astral Claws are treated as a respected, if somewhat brutal chapter. One of the Deathwatch: Ignition short stories also featured a Carcharodon Black Shield, who was exiled from his chapter for not meeting their standards of brutality. So it doesn't just have to be from a chapter that doesn't exist anymore. I do think it's important that the distinction between 30k Black Shields and 40k Black Shields be maintained. 30k Black Shields could be whole companies of marines disavowing allegiance and going off on their own, whereas 40k Black Shields are almost always single marines whose history warrants them having their allegiance stricken from records. The latter feels like it was a tradition that was rediscovered, after having been lost. Personally, I'm against traitor legionaries being the "default" that everyone thinks of when they think of Deathwatch Black Shield. The corrupting elements of chaos and the warp have been around for too long at this point. And the use of pre-heresy time shenanigans just screams, "The warp did it," which while it does happen, is still pretty lazy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4470928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Jareddem: All valid points. I used the Astral Claw as a clear cut example. But you are right, the FFG material is pre-badab war. Though probably not a question for this thread.... I do wonder what happened to Watch Fortress Erioch (spelling). I was expecting a nod to it in the DW codex... but it wasn't there. Surprising, considering the Black Shield fluff they pulled. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4470976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Jareddem: All valid points. I used the Astral Claw as a clear cut example. But you are right, the FFG material is pre-badab war. Though probably not a question for this thread.... I do wonder what happened to Watch Fortress Erioch (spelling). I was expecting a nod to it in the DW codex... but it wasn't there. Surprising, considering the Black Shield fluff they pulled. There is kind of a nod to it. One of the events speaks about the Omega Chamber, held within Watch Fortress Omega (which strangely is not listed on the map) that was raided by Eldar corsairs. But the chamber ended up being empty. It's clearly not Watch Fortress Erioch or the Omega Vault, but possibly an in-universe example of mistaken identity. "Omega what? No this is the Omega Chamber. The Omega Vault's on the other side of the galaxy! Talk about getting your directions wrong..." That said, the codex is set ~130 years in the future. Watch Fortress Erioch may have already fallen to Tyranids, Tau, or the Hadex Anomaly. Edit: Or Necrons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4470983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Just want to be clear, I didnt mean that traitor legion exiles from the HH were the norm for deathwatch black shields. I am just most interested in them at the moment. I don't think anyone believe that even a significant number of black shields are from the hh Actally I'd expect the break down to be. Black shield origin... Space marines about a million at any one time Deathwatch members about a 1000 at any one time Through the 10k year history of the Deathwatch 1000 Disgraced loyalist from a loyalist chapter 500 Loyalist from a disgraced chapter 250 Loyalist from a traitor chapter 125 Former traitor from a loyalist chapter 62 Former traitor from a traitor chapter 32 Horus heresy veteran (early imperial history when they still might have been alive or only slightly temporally displaced) 16 lost in time and space... (join post M33) And remember these are approx totals from the entirety of the ~10k history of the Deathwatch and just my spit ball to give you an impression of how I see it... Please note that this excludes darkangels and their fallen... that to secret to know... *makes Dr evil pinky to lip face Also excludes the immediate aftermath of the HH until around when the deathwatch was founded because I really don't kow that off hand... I'm a bit confused about what malcador was up to, was that the deathwatch he formed out of garro and his other survivors? I don't recall.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4471013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Malcador formed the Grey Knights, I believe the Deathwatch were founded around a thousand years later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4471248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Malcador formed the Grey Knights, I believe the Deathwatch were founded around a thousand years later. Not even Grey Knights, he founded the Inquisition. GK origins are in 5th edition GK book and have zero mention of Garro and his band, doubly so because Garro and most Errants are not psykers, so they wouldn't fit either way. As for Traitor Legion blackshields, I have nothing against the concept, but how a time-displaced Marine would even know it is an option? What, would he see poster recruiting to Foreign Leg... oops, I mean Death Watch, on street corner? Though, I am pondering making use of the Chaos transfers I have left over and making a handful of totally-not-a-traitor-just-obscure-chapter guys. I wanted to paint a handful of Legions anyway, why not combine it with DW project? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4471403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hivey Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I like the idea of an alpha legion black shield. Goes in under the guise of another chapter, saying he wants to repent for yadda yadda. Really in there to infiltrate for some reason or another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4471476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 One of the Deathwatch: Ignition short stories also featured a Carcharodon Black Shield, who was exiled from his chapter for not meeting their standards of brutality. So it doesn't just have to be from a chapter that doesn't exist anymore. This idea really tickles my fancy, as it plays well with the concept of an "outcast Astartes" and also fits with the background/special rules of the Black Shields as provided by C:DW. Perhaps a Black Shield with x2 LC and super scraped/beaten armor with some grey showing under the damage? Maybe a few tooth necklaces (courtesy SW bits)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4471477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I like the idea of an alpha legion black shield. Goes in under the guise of another chapter, saying he wants to repent for yadda yadda. Really in there to infiltrate for some reason or another. I remember a story like that... Aha! Found it! http://new4.fjcdn.com/pictures/Good+old+alpha+legion+good+story+i+found+that+i_3c27b8_4798617.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4471712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hivey Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 See i had an idea i had read about something similar. Wasnt sure if i dreamed it or not. Good to know ive not lost my mind! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4471751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I have a Blood Angel blackshield in mind as a watch captain. Fighting alongside an adepta sororitas squad, he succumbed to the curse of sanguinius for a brief time and ripped apart his allies. When he came round, the shame was too much and he joins the Deathwatch as a blackshield. Please don't. Pick any other Imperial force, but please stop with Sororitas being slaughtered by Astartes. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4471760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Jareddem: All valid points. I used the Astral Claw as a clear cut example. But you are right, the FFG material is pre-badab war. Though probably not a question for this thread.... I do wonder what happened to Watch Fortress Erioch (spelling). I was expecting a nod to it in the DW codex... but it wasn't there. Surprising, considering the Black Shield fluff they pulled. There is kind of a nod to it. One of the events speaks about the Omega Chamber, held within Watch Fortress Omega (which strangely is not listed on the map) that was raided by Eldar corsairs. But the chamber ended up being empty. It's clearly not Watch Fortress Erioch or the Omega Vault, but possibly an in-universe example of mistaken identity. "Omega what? No this is the Omega Chamber. The Omega Vault's on the other side of the galaxy! Talk about getting your directions wrong..." That said, the codex is set ~130 years in the future. Watch Fortress Erioch may have already fallen to Tyranids, Tau, or the Hadex Anomaly. Edit: Or Necrons. Well it's not like many even know it exists, and you can't get to it without being given very specific coordinates. I mean outside of those who are sent there I'm sure it's practically a myth. It is also FFGs thing so the Omega chamber is probably the closest they wanted to do to give it a mention. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4471781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 See i had an idea i had read about something similar. Wasnt sure if i dreamed it or not. Good to know ive not lost my mind! I may have this wrong so please don't quote me on this. It was John French who first came up with the concept of Black Shields when he was working on the core rules for the Deathwatch RPG. Later, ADB yelled at him for giving every single That Guy in a Deathwatch group the opening to play "secret Alpha Legion Black Shield" cliche. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hivey Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 See i had an idea i had read about something similar. Wasnt sure if i dreamed it or not. Good to know ive not lost my mind! I may have this wrong so please don't quote me on this. It was John French who first came up with the concept of Black Shields when he was working on the core rules for the Deathwatch RPG. Later, ADB yelled at him for giving every single That Guy in a Deathwatch group the opening to play "secret Alpha Legion Black Shield" cliche. Its only cliche if its not played right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 See i had an idea i had read about something similar. Wasnt sure if i dreamed it or not. Good to know ive not lost my mind!I may have this wrong so please don't quote me on this. It was John French who first came up with the concept of Black Shields when he was working on the core rules for the Deathwatch RPG. Later, ADB yelled at him for giving every single That Guy in a Deathwatch group the opening to play "secret Alpha Legion Black Shield" cliche. Its only cliche if its not played right. Then it's a trope! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 See i had an idea i had read about something similar. Wasnt sure if i dreamed it or not. Good to know ive not lost my mind!I may have this wrong so please don't quote me on this. It was John French who first came up with the concept of Black Shields when he was working on the core rules for the Deathwatch RPG. Later, ADB yelled at him for giving every single That Guy in a Deathwatch group the opening to play "secret Alpha Legion Black Shield" cliche. Its only cliche if its not played right. Then it's a trope! Everything is a cliche or troupe of some kind, it's best just not to worry about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptix Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I wanna do a 30k Blackshield Firedrake Terminator who got trapped in an Archaeotech machine before the Drop Site Massacre, making him not age for the next 10,000 years. The Deathwatch find his pod after a fleet engagement with the Orks, who were trying to crack it open. When told about what happened to Vulkan, he broke down and joined the Deathwatch as penance for abandoning his duty. He has long since forsaken his name, but some among the Deathwatch are calling him The Last Firedrake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 My only use for a black shield so far was to hide a custom chapter that is tied into the over arching story from the group. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 IMO Black Shields are one of the most interesting concepts to find its way into 40k and the Adeptus Astartes in particular in a long time. They really open up the creative possibilities for conversion and background ideas without requiring you to build an entire army, and their rules actually make sense tied into the concept. Even better, their special rule is actually WORTH paying for on the gaming table! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Being a DA player my Blackshield will be Grangel previously know as Galiath Veteran Sergeant of the DA legion on Caliban and follower of Luther... Once he was stranded in warp he realized the foolishness of the Luther betrayal and when he emerged info reality again during 4th Century of the 41st millennium he came to knowledge about the Deathwatch... He joined the ranks of the fortress of Talassa and he is actuslly serving under Watch Captain Artemis... Ironically the two DA brothers serving under Artemis have no suspect that the Nlack Shield is one penitent Fallen Angel... Grangel favored loadout is Stormshield, shotugun and Lightning Claw... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrox Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I'll be adding a Blackshield to my Deathwatch force, but still undecided on his origins. To be honest, i want to avoid any Traitor Legion links - the only way i'd go that way is if i chose to have him as Fallen Dark Angel who wants nothing more than redemption. Some ideas i had are: Emperor's Sword survivor Soul Drinker Astral Knights Marine who was not present when the chapter sacrificed itself - think this will be what i do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hivey Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Im thinking i'll fluff my black shield, who will have a heavy hammer, as commander hair gel from dow2. Partly corrupted, the crusade he was sent on led to the deathwatch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Keep in mind the Heavy Hammer is a questionnable option, since it is available to Veterans, and the Black Shield has a separate profile... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 See i had an idea i had read about something similar. Wasnt sure if i dreamed it or not. Good to know ive not lost my mind!I may have this wrong so please don't quote me on this. It was John French who first came up with the concept of Black Shields when he was working on the core rules for the Deathwatch RPG. Later, ADB yelled at him for giving every single That Guy in a Deathwatch group the opening to play "secret Alpha Legion Black Shield" cliche. Its only cliche if its not played right. We had a black shield in our group. He created this lovely background, an Iron hand who didn't want to be a machine, who saw the potential for strength in flesh. he played it with passion untill the very last scenario in our campaign. The GM handed him a piece of paper prior to the start of the scenario, it read "You are an Alpha Legion infiltrator, kill the Chaplain". Now THAT is how you rock the Alpha Legion black shield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 We had a black shield in our group. He created this lovely background, an Iron hand who didn't want to be a machine Sounds like a quitter to me . . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324763-deathwatch-black-shields/page/2/#findComment-4472677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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