Deathwatch: black shields

[Lysere]

Keep in mind the Heavy Hammer is a questionnable option, since it is available to Veterans, and the Black Shield has a separate profile...

It's not questionable, it's straight up not a legal option. The apothecary not getting upgrades faq answer is the same situation as this one and they made that clear with the faq.

[Spinsanity]

 

Keep in mind the Heavy Hammer is a questionnable option, since it is available to Veterans, and the Black Shield has a separate profile...

It's not questionable, it's straight up not a legal option. The apothecary not getting upgrades faq answer is the same situation as this one and they made that clear with the faq.

 

Well, I didn't look at the FB FAQs, so wasn't sure how that was worded. I remember the command squad entry, however, lists the Apothecary upgrade before the weapons upgrade, so I figured the answer might have mentionned that upgrades had to be taken sequentially, which would have opened up the possibility for a Veteran to take a HeavyHammer before being upgraded to BlackShield...

[Lysere]

 

 

Keep in mind the Heavy Hammer is a questionnable option, since it is available to Veterans, and the Black Shield has a separate profile...

It's not questionable, it's straight up not a legal option. The apothecary not getting upgrades faq answer is the same situation as this one and they made that clear with the faq.

Well, I didn't look at the FB FAQs, so wasn't sure how that was worded. I remember the command squad entry, however, lists the Apothecary upgrade before the weapons upgrade, so I figured the answer might have mentionned that upgrades had to be taken sequentially, which would have opened up the possibility for a Veteran to take a HeavyHammer before being upgraded to BlackShield...

You can't use character upgrades sequentially. As soon as you take the black shield he is no longer a veteran and can't take options specific to veterans. You can use weapon options sequentially, see space marine bikes having to take close combat weapons then trade those for special weapons.

[hivey]

Keep in mind the Heavy Hammer is a questionnable option, since it is available to Veterans, and the Black Shield has a separate profile...

Then a normal thunderhammer. Either, commander hair gel, formally of the blood ravens, is going to by my blac shield. Now to find a head for him...

[Leif Bearclaw]

I wanna do a 30k Blackshield Firedrake Terminator who got trapped in an Archaeotech machine before the Drop Site Massacre, making him not age for the next 10,000 years. The Deathwatch find his pod after a fleet engagement with the Orks, who were trying to crack it open. When told about what happened to Vulkan, he broke down and joined the Deathwatch as penance for abandoning his duty. He has long since forsaken his name, but some among the Deathwatch are calling him The Last Firedrake.

Wouldn't that be a bit weird whenever a 40k era Salamander come to the Watch Fortress? After all, the Sallies 1st Company are still the Firedrakes.

 

Have to say, I don't get the enthusiasm for Astral Knights as Blackshields. Where's the humiliation and shame in being left on Obsidia, when it was a legitimate order from Chapter command? Especially given the attitude of the Chapter in the World Engine novel, the few survivors would wear the colours proudly, not shy away from the glorious legacy of their Chapter. Hell, I agree the Astral Knights in the DW is an ace idea, just not as Blackshields. I want to make my Watch Commander an Astral Knight for precisely this reason.

[Cyrox]

 

I wanna do a 30k Blackshield Firedrake Terminator who got trapped in an Archaeotech machine before the Drop Site Massacre, making him not age for the next 10,000 years. The Deathwatch find his pod after a fleet engagement with the Orks, who were trying to crack it open. When told about what happened to Vulkan, he broke down and joined the Deathwatch as penance for abandoning his duty. He has long since forsaken his name, but some among the Deathwatch are calling him The Last Firedrake.

Wouldn't that be a bit weird whenever a 40k era Salamander come to the Watch Fortress? After all, the Sallies 1st Company are still the Firedrakes.

 

Have to say, I don't get the enthusiasm for Astral Knights as Blackshields. Where's the humiliation and shame in being left on Obsidia, when it was a legitimate order from Chapter command? Especially given the attitude of the Chapter in the World Engine novel, the few survivors would wear the colours proudly, not shy away from the glorious legacy of their Chapter. Hell, I agree the Astral Knights in the DW is an ace idea, just not as Blackshields. I want to make my Watch Commander an Astral Knight for precisely this reason.

 

 

You know what, after posting i was thinking the same thing, and came to same conclusion as you. An Astral Knight in Deathwatch should wear his colours with pride.

 

A Celestial Lion is probably a better idea for a Blackshield, especially given that they were ruthlessly targeted, and any survivors may not want to advertise they are CL

[Indefragable]

 

 

Keep in mind the Heavy Hammer is a questionnable option, since it is available to Veterans, and the Black Shield has a separate profile...

It's not questionable, it's straight up not a legal option. The apothecary not getting upgrades faq answer is the same situation as this one and they made that clear with the faq.

 

Well, I didn't look at the FB FAQs, so wasn't sure how that was worded. I remember the command squad entry, however, lists the Apothecary upgrade before the weapons upgrade, so I figured the answer might have mentionned that upgrades had to be taken sequentially, which would have opened up the possibility for a Veteran to take a HeavyHammer before being upgraded to BlackShield...

 

 

Options:

• May include up to five additional Veterans                 
• Any model may take items from the Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons and/or Special Weapons list
• Any model may replace either his boltgun or close combat weapon with a storm shield         
• Up to four Veteran may take items from the Heavy Weapons list
• Any Veteran may replace his weapons with a
• heavy thunder hammer                  
• May upgrade one Veteran to a Black Shield    
• May upgrade a different Veteran to a Watch Sergeant       free
• The Watch Sergeant may replace his close combat weapon with a xenophile blade          
• The Watch Sergeant may take items form the Special Issue Wargear list
• The unit may take a Rhino, Razorback, Corvus Backstair, or Drop Pod as a Dedicated Transport

Not that it specifies Veterans can take Heavy Thunder Hammers. However, any model can take the other stuff. I think that's different from the Apothecary clause because in the command squad lists it specifies Veteran as well. 

 

 

As for kitbashing and modeling Black Shields, I think the subtle touches will be the most fun. The hood is perfect because it makes you wonder about the whole Fallen thing....or maybe a DA who's annoyed that his chapter (arguably) cares more about the Fallen than defending humanity....

 

Just adding, say, a Chainaxe, or older pattern helmets, greaves, etc...

Maybe a Falchion....

 

....little bits like that I think will be really cool. Sometimes not knowing is more fun. 

[Jareddm]

 

 

 

 

I wanna do a 30k Blackshield Firedrake Terminator who got trapped in an Archaeotech machine before the Drop Site Massacre, making him not age for the next 10,000 years. The Deathwatch find his pod after a fleet engagement with the Orks, who were trying to crack it open. When told about what happened to Vulkan, he broke down and joined the Deathwatch as penance for abandoning his duty. He has long since forsaken his name, but some among the Deathwatch are calling him The Last Firedrake.

Wouldn't that be a bit weird whenever a 40k era Salamander come to the Watch Fortress? After all, the Sallies 1st Company are still the Firedrakes.

 

Have to say, I don't get the enthusiasm for Astral Knights as Blackshields. Where's the humiliation and shame in being left on Obsidia, when it was a legitimate order from Chapter command? Especially given the attitude of the Chapter in the World Engine novel, the few survivors would wear the colours proudly, not shy away from the glorious legacy of their Chapter. Hell, I agree the Astral Knights in the DW is an ace idea, just not as Blackshields. I want to make my Watch Commander an Astral Knight for precisely this reason.

You know what, after posting i was thinking the same thing, and came to same conclusion as you. An Astral Knight in Deathwatch should wear his colours with pride.

 

A Celestial Lion is probably a better idea for a Blackshield, especially given that they were ruthlessly targeted, and any survivors may not want to advertise they are CL

The Celestial Lions are actually doing okay. They're being rebuilt with the help of the Black Templars and since then, their actions on Armageddon have only reinvigorated their beliefs.

 

Now an Obsidian Glaive survivor. There's someone who would feel shame for not being on their homeworld when the Red Waaagh! crashed through the Sanctus Reach.

[sockwithaticket]

I'd have thought the likes of the Soul Drinkers, Relictors and Knights of Blood (for example) might not be totally cool with carrying on in Chapter colours having been excommunicated and declared renegade...

I know Knights of Blood best being Sons of Sanguinius and while they still fight for the Imperium despite the judgement from Terra, I can see a few brothers perhaps being wearied by constantly looking over their shoulders and maybe the odd one finding his way to a Watch Fortress.

[Jacques Corbin]

How about a Space Wolf who is the VERY last survivor, joining the DW insteadcof becoming a Lone Wolf?

[shandwen]

I'm rather surprised to see so many people wanting to make beautiful background stories for their blackshields. I mean after all, they are basically made to swear away from any signs of their background. You can't really even model them with any chapter flair.

[jeffersonian000]

One small note, the Fallen are the loyalists and the Unforgiven are the traitors. DA and their successors hunt the only ones that know the truth, that the Lion turned from the Emperor. A Fallen hidding as a Black Shield is not looking for redemption, they are looking for companionship and a place to be an Astartes with fellow brothers in arms.

 

SJ

[Father Mehman]

One small note, the Fallen are the loyalists and the Unforgiven are the traitors. DA and their successors hunt the only ones that know the truth, that the Lion turned from the Emperor. A Fallen hidding as a Black Shield is not looking for redemption, they are looking for companionship and a place to be an Astartes with fellow brothers in arms.

 

SJ

Wait, what? Since when are the Unforgiven the traitors?

[jeffersonian000]

 

 

One small note, the Fallen are the loyalists and the Unforgiven are the traitors. DA and their successors hunt the only ones that know the truth, that the Lion turned from the Emperor. A Fallen hidding as a Black Shield is not looking for redemption, they are looking for companionship and a place to be an Astartes with fellow brothers in arms.

 

SJ

Wait, what? Since when are the Unforgiven the traitors?

Since the Heresy.

 

SJ

[Canadian_F_H]

I thought that was just a fan theory. Pretty sure officially that's not true.

[Father Mehman]

It isn't true, Canadian.

[Lysere]

It isn't true, Canadian.

 

No one knows if it is true or not, maybe we'll find out the truth when they move the story forward. Until then I just use it as an excuse to call a buddy of mine who plays DA and Chaos a Heretic.

[jeffersonian000]

Gav Thorpe dropped that bombshell, putting runors to rest. Dan Abnett has repeated it, as has James Swallow

 

It's official cannon. Alpha Legion are loyalists fighting on the traitor side to give humanity a chance to survive, and the Dark Angels are traitors pretending to be loyalist while hunting down their loyalist kin in order to hide their shame.

 

SJ

[Hellios]

Gav Thorpe dropped that bombshell, putting runors to rest. Dan Abnett has repeated it, as has James Swallow

 

It's official cannon. Alpha Legion are loyalists fighting on the traitor side to give humanity a chance to survive, and the Dark Angels are traitors pretending to be loyalist while hunting down their loyalist kin in order to hide their shame.

 

SJ

 

Is this supported in any of the actual cannon? I knew that the Chaos Gods had intended to corrupt the Dark Angels, and that makes sense considering how close Caliban was to the Eye of Terror and how it was tainted by warp spawned beasts... On the other hand it doesn't make sense that they would give Luther support if the Lion was a traitor.

[Commander Dawnstar]

I'd have thought the likes of the Soul Drinkers, Relictors and Knights of Blood (for example) might not be totally cool with carrying on in Chapter colours having been excommunicated and declared renegade...

 

I know Knights of Blood best being Sons of Sanguinius and while they still fight for the Imperium despite the judgement from Terra, I can see a few brothers perhaps being wearied by constantly looking over their shoulders and maybe the odd one finding his way to a Watch Fortress.

 

The Knights of Blood were one of the successor chapters given their own rules in the Deathwatch RPG, so there's arguably something of a precedent for them finding their way to the Deathwatch, particularly in the guise of a Blackshield.

 

I really like the idea of a Relictor turned Blackshield; I've always liked those guys. Thanks for putting that out there.

[Father Mehman]

Gav Thorpe dropped that bombshell, putting runors to rest. Dan Abnett has repeated it, as has James Swallow

 

It's official cannon. Alpha Legion are loyalists fighting on the traitor side to give humanity a chance to survive, and the Dark Angels are traitors pretending to be loyalist while hunting down their loyalist kin in order to hide their shame.

 

SJ

It appears in no Black Library book and, more importantly, no Games Workshop written publication. What an author(s) says in a podcast means nothing (he even stifled a giggle when he answered).

 

Have your view - that's quite alright. Until it's given to us by backstory writers, it isn't going to be an in-universe "canon".

 

I believe we've been off-topic with this drivel for long enough. For the love of the Emperor, someone get us back to the Black Shields!

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

Been thinking about a Crimson Sabres Black Shield the last few days (the chapter that became the Crimson Slaughter in case anyone didn't know).

 

Turns out there were a few loyalists who objected to the gradual corruption of the chapter once it had entered the Eye. They ended up imprisoned (or later murdered) by Kranon and while most go mad, it is implied some resisted through strength of will.

 

What if one escaped the dungeons and fled the Eye of Terror, disgusted by the fall of his once honourable chapter?

I think it would be interesting as the whole chapter took part in the massacre (if inadvertently) that led to them all hearing voices and being declared traitors; and likewise he would still hear the voices that can only be silenced through slaughter.

However his strength of will kept him from madness and he has sought to restore his honour in the Deathwatch, slaughtering Xenos to keep the voices at bay.

 

Fits quite nicely with the Black Shield rules too, gaining additional attacks to represent the crazy savagery they are now cursed with.

[sockwithaticket]

^
Sounds like ideal Blackshield material, loyal marines from newly excommunicated/renegade chapters. Don't even need the crazy/voices stuff.

 

 

I'd have thought the likes of the Soul Drinkers, Relictors and Knights of Blood (for example) might not be totally cool with carrying on in Chapter colours having been excommunicated and declared renegade...

I know Knights of Blood best being Sons of Sanguinius and while they still fight for the Imperium despite the judgement from Terra, I can see a few brothers perhaps being wearied by constantly looking over their shoulders and maybe the odd one finding his way to a Watch Fortress.

 

The Knights of Blood were one of the successor chapters given their own rules in the Deathwatch RPG, so there's arguably something of a precedent for them finding their way to the Deathwatch, particularly in the guise of a Blackshield.

 

I really like the idea of a Relictor turned Blackshield; I've always liked those guys. Thanks for putting that out there.

 

Oh cool, didn't know that. Which volume is that in and is it accompanied by much fluff? I have a bit of a soft spot for the KoB.

 

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

 

^

Sounds like ideal Blackshield material, loyal marines from newly excommunicated/renegade chapters. Don't even need the crazy/voices stuff.

 

 

 

Cheers. I know what you mean about the voices though. It's only because fluff wise, other than a few that remained on the Chapter's home world all of them (like 95% of the Chapter) were tricked into slaughtering the entire population of a loyalist world and as a result, they all began to experience hauntings - voices and visions of the slain - which got worse in the Eye and could only be stopped by further killing.

Therefore, for a Crimson Sabre wishing to atone for such actions and the Chapter's eventual fall (even though they were excommunicated they still believed themselves loyal and went into the eye to fight Chaos until a glorious death gave them redemption but warp exposure and the voices drove them mad and turned them), he would have to be part of this group who stayed loyal, and so the voices would be there.

 

And so while not necessary to have him hearing them, I like the 40k fluff and try to stick to it so I'll just have to work with it.

[jeffersonian000]

All I'm saying is that we should be treating our Black Shields as veterans of the long war rather than those that know fear.

 

SJ