Wayniac Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I'm looking at starting 30k and doing a Sons of Horus force. I have dual narratives in my head, one for loyalist one for traitor, but I wanted to check something fluff-wise regarding the legion organization. First, is there something that indicates the organization of the Sons of Horus up to/during the Heresy? I've only just begun reading the novels series with Horus Rising (so I have a long way to go ), so I'm getting some brief insight into things like the Mournival, some of the personas, etc. Second, regarding the organization of the Justaerin (my Traitor leader is intended to be in terminator armor, in part because in the narrative he transitions into my future Black Legion Chaos Lord!), Abaddon is clearly the 1st captain (also "High Chieftain of the Justaerin" I've seen him referred to in the Talon of Horus novel), but Falkus Kibre is also listed as a "captain". Is there some reasoning why there are two captains of a company (three if you count Ekkadon and the Reavers, since they are 1st company too, but the Reavers are distinct from the Justaerin while Falkus is "just" a member of the Justaerin)? Maybe I am thinking of Company in the 40k sense, and in the 30k sense a company can have multiple captains? Or is a "captain" in this sense a squad leader? Third, slightly unrelated to organization, would it be against the fluff to have Justaerin and/or Reaver squads in a loyalist force? I mean, they seem pretty well into the bad guy side (maybe just because of Abaddon, and Ekkadon doesn't seem like a nice guy either) but given the diversity I don't necessarily see it out of place to have some that are like "Wait this isn't right" and switch sides during the conflict. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ikka Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Book 1- Betrayal, has the info you're looking for. Off the top of my head, as to your second question, the First company had three Captains. Abbadon was First Captain and in overall command, while he had two subordinate captains in charge of the two sections of the First- the terminators and the elite assault squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4468544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ion Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 It seems the SoH didn't really distinguish between the captains that lead the company and the ones that run certain parts of it. As for the Reavers and Justaerin in loyalists.. well, there's no reason a loyalist force couldn't have Reavers, as they were an organisational and doctrinal thing rather than a specific group. First Company reavers? Not so likely, but reaver squads? No reason not to. Justaerin you could do one of two ways, a small group of first company that went 'hell no' and joined a loyalist group, or a group that were Justaerin trained/equipped but never part of the company/group. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4468694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 To echo what has already been said: The SoH didn't have much organization above the company level. That being said, a company of marines could be as little as 40ish to as many as 600+, at least according to Betrayal. But there are some general rules to prevent anarchy. First, Company Captains out ranked other captains (As Abaddon out ranked his to sub-cpts for the Reavers and Justerain respectively). Also, lower numbered company captains generally (though not always) out ranked higher numbered companies. I view this out to mean that to a SoH captain, prestige is what set you apart from your peers. Prestige is what got you closer to the Primarch. Unfortunately for Horus, two of his most prestigious Captains (Tarrik and Loken) didn't follow his path to heresy. So, there could be a president for a loyalist SoH to take after those fallen heros. Ultimately, the Sons of Horus strike me as a 'cult of personality' leadership style that would only be out done by the post chaos maddness of the Emperor's Children. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4468757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 Thank you for the replies. The main thing is I want to do two narratives but using as much as possible for the same forces, so I can use the army as either Loyalist or Traitor depending on the circumstances (e.g. Loyalist vs. other Traitors, Traitor vs. other Loyalists). So what I came up with for the briefs are the following: First, for the loyalist force (Rites of War: Orphans of Betrayal): Calderon Malvernus, Captain of the 26th company (*number could change) of the Sons of Horus, and his men are delayed in arriving to Istvaan III due to a freak warp storm, which ultimately saves their lives by preventing them falling victim to that planet's virus bombing as the Warmaster shows his true colors and culls his legion of loyalists. As Horus' treachery comes to light, Captain Malvernus chooses to stand against his traitorous brothers and his Primarch and lead his men and other loyal Sons of Horus in a fight to preserve the Imperium he swore to defend, even against all odds. and for the traitors (Rites of War: The Long March; also the added benefit here is the commander of this force will become my Chaos Lord in 40k when Chaos gets a revamp): Verdane Malroth, a particularly brutal member of the black-armoured Justaerin Terminators, the pride of the XVIth legion, leads a group of his traitorous brothers in open rebellion alongside his primarch, the Warmaster Horus. Determined to see the Imperium of Man fall and the Sons of Horus reign supreme, the evil Malroth, now calling himself the Defiler and freed of the noble ideals he once held dear, cuts a bloody swathe through his loyalist brothers and any who stand in the way of the Warmaster's dark goals, his fate already given body and soul to the powers of darkness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4468771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 I have another question, I thought that the Justaerin were THE Terminator squads of the SoH. But in Horus Rising, Loken and 10th Company arrive on 63-19 and he has a squad leader (Rassek) who is in Terminator armor, but there's no mention of him being a Justaerin. So does that mean that SoH use normal Terminators AND Justaerin (who are elite Terminators)? To put it in a concrete way, the Terminator squad that comes with Betrayal at Calth could be painted in regular SoH colors and be fielded as a Terminator squad that isn't Justaerin? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4469950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Justaerin are the 1st company, as are Cutulan Reavers. Other companies would have terminators but they wouldn't be Justaerin, just as they have reaver squads that are not cutulan reavers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4469958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Justaerin are the 1st company, as are Cutulan Reavers. Other companies would have terminators but they wouldn't be Justaerin, just as they have reaver squads that are not cutulan reavers. Okay I did not realize that, I guess I'm thinking in terms of a modern SM chapter where Terminators are ONLY in 1st Company, and not in other companies. Maybe that's why I've seen some models of Reaver Squads that are painted in the typical green, and then some (presumably the Catulan Reavers) that are in black armor like the Justaerin with red plates. That helps me out a lot, here I was thinking that I'd need to only field Justaerin if I wanted Terminators, and thinking about buying the Justaerin upgrades for the terminators that come in the Calth box to make them look like the Justaerin. Thank you!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4469971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I Justaerin are the 1st company, as are Cutulan Reavers. Other companies would have terminators but they wouldn't be Justaerin, just as they have reaver squads that are not cutulan reavers. Okay I did not realize that, I guess I'm thinking in terms of a modern SM chapter where Terminators are ONLY in 1st Company, and not in other companies. Maybe that's why I've seen some models of Reaver Squads that are painted in the typical green, and then some (presumably the Catulan Reavers) that are in black armor like the Justaerin with red plates. That helps me out a lot, here I was thinking that I'd need to only field Justaerin if I wanted Terminators, and thinking about buying the Justaerin upgrades for the terminators that come in the Calth box to make them look like the Justaerin. Thank you!! There are reflected in the rules set. SoH have access to Justaerin (WS5 2W terminators) as well as Legion Terminator Squad (Normal term stat line). The Justaerin are expensive in points value though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4470010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 The 1st had multiple captains because the Sons didn't stick to a particular volume when it came to counting something as a company. Some had members in the thousands, others far less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4470191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ion Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Rules wise, Justaerin are currently the better choice than normal termies though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4470199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 The books never show it, but at least Horus Rising implies that Abaddon has led armies on his own before. It figures that even if his company are at typical strength he'd want lieutenants to manage the Catulan Reavers and Justaerin. Is it ever mentioned whether the First Company includes other squads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4470248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Just the Catulan Reavers and the Justaerin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4470276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Thought as much Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324767-question-on-sons-of-horus-legion-organization/#findComment-4470316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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