Orders Non-Militant Reps., Repairing Sisters Equipment

[Servant of Dante]

I would appreciate thoughts on the following, as I am considering how to handle Non-Militant Representatives and the Order of the Glorious Reprisal.

Orders Hospitaller

It is established that Sisters Hospitaller serves as the medics for the Orders Militant, so I would imagine any convent of decent size has at least one.

Orders Diologus

The Sororitas Command Squad seems to suggest that the Orders Militant use Sisters Diologus. This may just apply to the Orders Majoris, who have access to the headquarters of at least two such orders (at either the Convent Prioris or the Convent Sanctorum), but I don't think it would be too far-fetched for other convents to have a Diologus representative for record keeping and research.

Orders Famulous

The only codex that includes rules for the Sister Famulous that I know of (and I have checked the 2E, 3.5E, 5E, and 6E (duh) codices) is the White Dwarf Chapter approved Codex from pre-Witch Hunters third edition. In any case, I don't see Sisters Famulous going into battle alongside the Orders Militant very often.

Orders Sabine

Unless the planet they are on is unusual unruly, I can't even see a Sister Sabine being on any planet any sizable number of Sisters Militant are based on.

Orders Pronatus

OK, here's where I get to the real question here: who repairs the Sisters Rhinos/Immolators/repressors/etc. and works on the engines of any transports they own? I thought that the ships may have Enginseers onboard, but I got an interesting opinion from another person. I have their permission to paste what they said here.

+ Begin Excerpts+

The Pronatus do not just care for relics, they salvage technology as well; it's even hinted at in their name. In this, they and the Missionarius Galaxia are in constant competition with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and the controversy over the Technology Purification Centre on Ophelia VII is part of how Sebastian Thor managed to get the AdMech to agree to permanent lease for the equipment necessary to manufacture Sororitas power armour in the first place.

It's true that this aspect is barely covered in the fluff, but then again, so are the Pronatus in general, appearing in only a single Black Library source and referenced again a single time in GW's Liber Sororitas.

There was an interesting mention in WD #269:

"Besides the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes, only a select few Imperial organisations now have access to Rhinos, the priceless technology involved in their construction and maintenance is too valuable to be entrusted to any but the most loyal and steadfast bodies of warriors. The Adepta Sororitas and Adeptus Arbites in particular have a number of Rhinos, and they maintain a body of those sanctified and pure of heart to care for them. Years of training go towards achieving this respected position. Aspirants must learn how to divine the runes of engineering, memorise the liturgy of maintenance and constantly study the routine of service. It is a position of great honour to care for these vehicles and those that are carried into battle within one of these armoured transports are mindful of the spirits that inhabit the mechanical functions and blessed bolts that make up each one."

Of course, the source doesn't give a specific name for these specially trained Sisters, though I like the idea of a "Mistress of the Armoury" (in the same vein as the Mistress of Repentance and Mistress of Novices) -- but in lieu of making up a special branch of my own, I could see how the expertise of the Sisters Pronatus could come in handy here, similar to how the Sisters Hospitaller may provide medical care. But what's most important is not the name, but that when the Sororitas have people trained to repair Rhinos, they can probably have people who can repair starship components as well.

+++

On a side note, does anybody know any sources for information on this Technology Purification Center?

+++

The Centre is indeed 2E fluff, albeit not from the codex. I'd have to look around to find what the actual source was, though, as this is an aspect of the fluff I haven't actually talked about for years. Most of the other things I talk about I can just google, knowing that I've already cited something somewhere complete with source and sometimes page number. This sort of preparatory work lets me look real busy when in fact I'm super-lazy and just rely on stuff I've already written elsewhere.

In regards to a starship's warp engines: I could imagine that stuff like this is still off-limits in terms of knowledge, and that proper repairs would have to be carried out by the AdMech. As such, the Pronatus might be more about maintenance and perhaps some jury-rigging, but they couldn't completely replace a Tech-Priest when it comes to delicate repairs?

As the Sisters' transports usually rely on a Navy escort and/or are only away for a short duration, they might regard the presence of a Tech-Priest as "optional". It'd be more of a concern for your Dawnhammer, but I'd say you could just get a TP assigned as a sort of envoy.

Oh, and I'm not actually sure *who* runs the Ecclesiarchal Forges on Ophelia VII. It could be the Pronatus, but for all we know it could also still be AdMech personnel who oversee an army of Ministorum workers, so there is still a possibility for your Bling-Priest! Much of what I'm working with in this aspect is mere conjecture, as very little is covered in the fluff.

+++

The "bling-priest" is refering to the idea I had (in I thread on the B&C, of I recall) about who made all the Sisters' stuff. I liked the idea of a Tech-Priest who was closely allied with the Ecclesiarchy, and gave them exclusive access to his forges (and thus had lots of gold with witch to plate his mechanical parts ).

+++

But yeah, *IF* it really is the Pronatus who are caring for these repairs, then I'd say they ought to be present in any convent of Mission-size or larger. We know that the Rhinos are taken care of, and I'd assume the same goes for the rest of their wargear.

Of course, at the same time it could be an internal thing, similar to how the Sisters Repentia or the Seraphim are merely a sub-division of an Order rather than their own branch. In this sense they'd be pretty close to your Sister-Captains and whoever pilots an Order's Valkyries.

Both options are possible, the fluff leaves this one open to interpretation. Like you said: a pretty big assumption.

As for the armour, that's actually one of the good things about PA: it is deliciously easy to repair, as the armoured plating is really just that, a slab of ceramite-laced flexsteel. No tech whatsoever. It just gets attached to a "suit" of fibre-bundles, and as long as those aren't damaged, you could just take that pauldron and hammer it back into shape like a medieval plate.

+++

In preparation for this topic, I asked again about the Technology Purification Center:

+++

Sadly, no. This was brought up in the oooold Sisters of Battle yahoo! group where Andy Hoare used to post, but that was more than ten years ago, and I'm not sure I've seen it in print. I recall it was part of the deal Sebastian Thor made with the Mechanicus when he secured the equipment for the Orders Militant, and that Thor was quite a clever bastard when he effectively ripped the AdMech off, but I'd have to check my old notes for details, and I know for sure I do not have the source in print here (I own a number of White Dwarves I collected just for Sisters fluff, but it's not in there).

I think the purpose of the Centre is to evaluate recovered technology and either store, analyse, or destroy it. Much of the stuff that comes out of there would be traded to the Mechanicus as a bargaining chip, similar to the Fornosian STC which yielded production of the Immolator tank.

+ End of Excerpts +

Personally, I really like the idea of the Orders Pronatus taking care of all of the vehicles and transports of the Orders militant, but since there is a good amount of inference and extrapolation going on, I would like your guys'es input before I write this into my order's fluff. Please let me know what you think and what you know!

Thanks!

[Grgobart]

I was hoping you'd find some well informed people, who'd be able to give you certain facts, as I can only offer you my opinion, an opinion largely based on reading fluff stuff, but at the time not suspecting GW might actually change fluff from edition to edition and thus not keeping track of sources.

 

First off, a few mentionings:

1. GW changes fluff without declaring old fluff outdated. Example: Back in 2E the Sisters of Battle had their own fleets with which they checked up Space Marine chapters and eradicated them if they deemed theri gene seed impure.

Now I not exactely sure if the whole of the Ecclesiarchy is only not allowed to maintain armed ships or none at all.

 

2. You probably have put more tought into asking this question, than GW has into keeping 40k fluff consistent. Yeah, they intentionally left many things open, so community and/or writers can fill the gaps, as they need to. But without cleaning up once in a while, the fluff inconsistencies will only further mount up.

 

3. "Making sense" and "having fun with 40k" don't go well together very often. So don't put too much effort into the first. (Not until you get actually paid by GW, that is!)

 

To the actual matter:

I was under the impression maintinance and repair of Sisterhood vehicles were done by actual tech priests. External workers of the Mechanicum who'd maintain a workshop wherever a larger body of vehicles is situated. A few sevitors and maybe a hand or two recruited form the local population.

I can't imagine any Sister actually learing engineering or even maintinance, as these are seen as religious acts and rituals in the belief of the Mechanicum and I hope I don't need to mention the fundamental discrepancies in faith between Mechanicum and Ecclesiarchy.

And I seem to remember one part of Thors contracts as newly appointed Ecclesiarch being, the Mechanicum provids gear and maintinance and the ecclesiarchal personell including Sisters stop trying to convert tech priests sent to do that. Or something along those lines.

 

As for the Orders Pronatus as a whole, they allways struck me as a FBI/CIA kind of thing. Reclaiming lost relics means first and foremost, finding its whereabouts, so a whole lot of information gathering. If one is found its time to determain the best mode of retrival, only one of which is sending in own agents (the Ecclesiarch could send regular Sisters of Battle, Officio Assassinarum Agents or declare a whole War of Faith into that Region depenging on circumstances).

The Technology Purification Centre then sounds much like Area 51 (or at least what most fiction makes it out to be) with added

relic maintinance. I'd think that only concerns the most valuable, fragile and/or mysterious ones, though. Most "regular" relics should be on display in one of the Ecclesiarchy's many Cathedrals.

Now imagine such an organisation, to not only conduct maintinance on their own vehicles (aka. those black SUVs), but the whole Sisterhood (aka. regular police cars and ships of the coast guard). Doesn't fit the picture, in my view!

 

Sorry I can only offer my opinion (without launching a massive reseach project!), but I hope its more helpful than staying quiet, seeing as you DID actually do some research and put some thought into it.

[Servant of Dante]

To be clear, I am mostly quoting a contact on another site. I too was under the impression that tech priests maintained the sisters stuff, but there seems to be evidence to the contrary.

 

As long as GW doesn't contradict something (and as far as I know there is nothing overwriting what is said here, the Johor orders have ships according to this, right? Or did I leave that bit out? I left out my half of this conversation as I didn't say anything super interresting) I consider it "true" In my headcanon.

 

Thank you for your thoughts! I will bring this to the atention of the one to which you are really responding!

[Grgobart]

To be clear, I am mostly quoting a contact on another site. I too was under the impression that tech priests maintained the sisters stuff, but there seems to be evidence to the contrary.

Contrary to Techpriests doing any maintinance at all, or contrary to Techpriests doing all the maintinance?

I'd imagine Techpriests do their oil change rituals, while the Sisters do blessings and annointments.

 

As long as GW doesn't contradict something (and as far as I know there is nothing overwriting what is said here, the Johor orders have ships according to this, right? Or did I leave that bit out? I left out my half of this conversation as I didn't say anything super interresting) I consider it "true" In my headcanon.

Does it not state somewhere, that the only ones allowed to have ships of their own outside the Imperial Navy are the Mechanicus, the Astartes, the Inquisition and Rogue Traders?

[CaptainHelion]

I don't think I've seen anything to support that, come to think on it

[Servant of Dante]

Well, here's what the author of that wall of text has to say (and again, even though they are not my words, I only post them here because I agree with them):

 

Nice, finally a reply! Well, given how the Hospitallers and the Dialogous do their own stuff in addition to providing personnel to be attached the Orders Militant (6E codex Command Squad), I don't see why it shouldn't be similar for the Orders Pronatus. Though again, I could just as much see the maintenance being something done by a specially trained member of the Orders Militant. It could go either way and I'm not sure which would work better; I just "know" (according to GW's own fluff) that the Sisters have their own, specialised personnel for that -- which fits the codex mention of them not allowing anyone else entry into their convents.

 

I have to say, though, that I do like the comparison to Area 51! 

[Servant of Dante]

It makes no sense for the major orders to have no ships and be completely reliant on the Navy, IMO.

 

Anyhow, I have been asked to reiterate the following excerpt from White Dwarf #269:

 

"Besides the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes, only a select few Imperial organisations now have access to Rhinos, the priceless technology involved in their construction and maintenance is too valuable to be entrusted to any but the most loyal and steadfast bodies of warriors. The Adepta Sororitas and Adeptus Arbites in particular have a number of Rhinos, and they maintain a body of those sanctified and pure of heart to care for them. Years of training go towards achieving this respected position. Aspirants must learn how to divine the runes of engineering, memorise the liturgy of maintenance and constantly study the routine of service. It is a position of great honour to care for these vehicles and those that are carried into battle within one of these armoured transports are mindful of the spirits that inhabit the mechanical functions and blessed bolts that make up each one."

 

Also, I have more to post in proxy:

 

As for CaptainHelion's remark, it should be pointed out that the Arbites have their own fleets as well (-> Battlefleet Gothic fluff), and as the 6E rulebook mentions, the psyker-transporting Black Ships belong to the Astra Telepathica.

 

I believe the limitation he mentions may actually be community hearsay, partially based on one of several interpretations concerning the exact effects of the Decree Passive which has dissolved the armies and fleets of the Frateris Templar, but as we know it was never applied to the Adepta Sororitas, else they would not exist as an army as well.

 

Given the Sisters' role as a "police force", it would also be a considerable hindrance for them not to have any transports at all, as a suspicious Cardinal could simply use his influence with the Navy to sabotage their investigations. And would the Imperial Navy really do something like risking a ship on a crazy mission to a condemned Daemon World to recover a bunch of bones, as mentioned in the 6E dex? Maybe, but it makes you think.

 

Obviously, it could just as well be like Grgobart mentioned, with GW having changed gears on this subject without actually saying so. But personally, until I see studio material explicitly contradicting earlier (2E) fluff about the Sororitas having their own fleets, I would not drop my preferred interpretation. We know they occasionally still go back even to 1st Edition Rogue Trader for SoB fluff (see WD #292 codex designer notes), so just because something is old alone is no grounds for assuming it is no longer valid.

[Grgobart]

"...they maintain a body of those sanctified and pure of heart to care for them."

 

That's exactely the kind of language, that lets anybody read into just about anything they want to! Could be the Astartes style model, sent one of your own to be tought by the Mechanicus. Or it could just mean they provide some Techpriest with food to eat and a bunk to sleep in. Or in case of the Sisters some independent 3rd party, approved by both the Mechanicus and the Ecclesiarchy? I don't know! I just can't see any proud Sister willingly delving into such a foreign religion.

 

As for the Black Ships, I could have sworn, they were controlled by the Inquisition. And the sad thing is, I could be right or wrong about it, despite your source clearly saying otherwise!!!

 

And making sense of Sisters having to rely on other imperial Organisations. That exactely the point, I'd say, any given body in the Imperium not being capable to wreck major havok on their own. Isn't that the reason why the Astartes were shrunk down to Chapter size, so they're to small on their own, to reenact something like the Horus Heresy? Isn't that the reason why the Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy became seperate organisations in the first place?

And after the Reign of Blood, the Ecclesiarchy was stripped of its military capabilities. The Sisters remaining without ships does prohibit them from being misused by the Ecclesiarchy, while I don't see it hindering them much in terms of internal policing, as they are basically based at same sites.

 

As for the given examples: If a Cardinal is already being considered suspicious by the Sisterhood, I don't see him being able to communicate with other institutions unnoticed. And I also don't see how the Navy is of any use to him*, as I'd presume Sisters are in all likelyhood based or at least stationed on the same planet as him. (* other than trying to flee, which would make him definitly guilty!)

And if the Sisters ever do feel successfully hindered in their internal investigations, isn't that what the Ordo Hereticus is for?

 

Crazy missions and bones, I presume any faithful subject of the Imperium is expected to (literally) die at the prospect of getting such a chance to prove his loyalty to the Emperor. Besides, without any actual enemy starships around the target planet, the only risk I see in such a retrival mission is to the dropship landing the sisters. And if all "reasoning" fails, the Ecclesiarchy is very rich!

[Servant of Dante]

I still would think that the Sisters have ships . . . at least the 6 major orders.
 

Anyway, thanks for the reply! The ambiguity of the source material is exactly why I brought this up.

[Servant of Dante]

More material for your consumption!

Again, the more of this I post, the more I agree with our anonymous author here . . .

and no, I'm not writing this and just pretending it wasn't me, if that's something you where thinking. I'm not nearly this well-versed in Sisters fluff, but I'm learning from the best

Grgobart does have a point in that it's still not 100% clear, but any ambiguities should disappear when you combine this with the following:

"Part of the puritan lifestyle of the Sisterhood is its isolation, and it is generally only the Canoness and her most experienced Sister Superiors who will have dealings with outsiders - even Sisters of another Order."

- 2E C:SoB

"Sanctuary 101 is a strictly female reclusium so only female squads, characters and female controlled support weapons from the Sisters of Battle army list can be used."

- WD #217: Scenario, Sanctuary 101

It just doesn't sound as if Sororitas convents would be welcoming to a Tech-Priest, not to mention the potential trouble from conflicting religious views (which would remain limited by using Sororitas-internal technicians following the official version of the Machine-God just being an aspect of the God-Emperor).

Grgobart is actually half-correct about the Black Ships; the confusion stemming from there being two sorts of them: the fleet of psyker transports from the Astra Telepathica, and purpose-built warships for the Inquisition. This, too, is explained in detail at the back of the 6E rulebook.

Where he may err is in the assumption that everywhere the Ecclesiarchy is, the Sisters are. This is not exactly "wrong" as the numbers of the Sisterhood depend greatly on the sources you're looking at (-> Black Library, Forgeworld, FFG, ...), but in the material published by Games Workshop itself, specifically the Sisterhood's expansion rate M36-M38 in the 2E codex as well as the Force Disposition Charts for the 13th Black Crusade and the Third War for Armageddon, the number of Battle Sisters in the Imperium appears to be way below 100,000, with about one third represented by the six Major Orders that keep travelling across space to deploy in warzones throughout the Imperium and beyond.

There are many places not under constant vigilance of the Orders Militant, and even a Cardinal may often only have a token honour guard that would be an easy kill for assassins or loyal militia, if at all.

Also, is he aware that you were referring to transports when you mentioned these fleets? Their lack of combat capabilities is pointed out in the original text, so in addition with their small numbers it would be unthinkable they'd have any chance at rivaling the Navy. With there being fewer Battle Sisters than Space Marines, and these corvettes being a far cry from the threat an Astartes Strike Cruiser would pose, I would say they are handicapped enough to fit in with the Imperial tradition of inter-dependent organisations. They just need to be independent enough to do their job, and for that they need to get around without waiting weeks or months until Navy bureaucracy responds to a request and manages to pull a ship away from its usual mission.

I have no idea why the formatting is so inconsistent when I paste stuff over here.

[Grgobart]

The only thing I was thinking about your anonymous author is, why doesn't he get his own account here, he obviously has much to say?

 

 

"Part of the puritan lifestyle of the Sisterhood is its isolation, and it is generally only the Canoness and her most experienced Sister Superiors who will have dealings with outsiders - even Sisters of another Order."

- 2E C:SoB

 

"Sanctuary 101 is a strictly female reclusium so only female squads, characters and female controlled support weapons from the Sisters of Battle army list can be used."

- WD #217: Scenario, Sanctuary 101

I mentioned GW's lack of effort in creating consistent fluff and their apparent refusal to clean up the mess they created, but I didn't mention, that some fluff contributions in itself, are (in my humble opinion at least) utter BS! And the only thing worst about it is, GW being fine with it as long as it doesn't interfere with their selling of new shinies.

 

Isolationist Sisters!?! Hospitallers training to be among the best medics in the Imperium, but keeping to themselves? Famulous, training to be part of the courts of loyalty and rich families, "not dealing with outsiders"???

As for the Orders Militant, I sure as hell hope that fighting enemies form inside and outside the Imperium is excluded from this "dealing with outsiders" somehow, or otherwise there wouldn't be much point in there being Sisters of Battle in the first place!!! Likewise how does this isolation fit with Sisters of Battle guarding pilgrim routes, shrines and cathedrals, all of which I'd presume are decently frequented, lest there be no reason to guard them?!?

 

As for the Sanctuary 101 part, what am I missing? Are there no female Techpriests, is the whole of the Mechanicum male only, do they only teach men in their arts and rituals?

[Servant of Dante]

Good points . . .

 

I would be careful with throwing out bits of fluff from the 2E codex, though ( the bit about not talking to outsiders)

 

Look, this is all conjecture. You don't have to agree with me. We're not trying to force you to agree with us.

 

I came onto this forum with these quotes because I knew I might actually get responses here, knowing full well the person who wrote all of it has no interest in having an account here.

 

Anyway, I still appreciate the feedback.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Are there no female Techpriests, is the whole of the Mechanicum male only, do they only teach men in their arts and rituals?

The Ciaphas Cain novels 'Death or Glory' and 'Cain's Last Stand' (republished in the 'Ciaphas Cain: Defender of the Imperium' omnibus) and 'The Greater Good' have female Tech-Priests play important roles. High-ranking female Tech-Priests also appear in the novel 'Wrath of Iron' and the short story 'Flesh' (in the 'There Is Only War' anthology).

 

Of course, the extensive augmentations a Tech-Priest has will make them look too... inhuman... for gender to be readily identifiable or even relevant.

[Servant of Dante]

+++

 

As for Grgobart's criticism on the codex quotes, I can't say I agree; there is a difference between what the Sisters do when they are sent on a mission, and how they conduct themselves within the walls of their convents. In one, they actively seek contact with outsiders for a purpose of their own choosing -- in the other, it's the outsider who is seeking contact, and who may easily interfere with routines and tasks that do not concern them.

 

And the Sanctuary 101 quote specifically mentions a restriction to units from the SoB army list -- otherwise a player could, in theory, just as well toss in a few female IG. Or those hypothetical female Tech-Priests and Enginseers.

 

Admittedly, the Sanctuary 101 quote feels more like crunch than fluff (although the restriction to female minis is as unique as it is notable), but on the other hand it is yet another piece in a growing line of presumptive evidence, and I have yet to see a single example of GW fluff that even hints at any AdMech presence in a Sororitas convent.

 

+++

 

Personally, it's much easier for me (Servant of Dante) to imagine that some Sisters have the knowledge to fix their equipment than to imagine that they allow tech-priests within their convents on a regular basis.

[Grgobart]

I can totally agree, that whatever prolonged period of not-on-mission time the Sisters of Battle spent praying, training and purifying themselves, would be spent in a building or compound within their physical convent, where they certainly deserve to be left on their own. I just don't see the neccessity, to park their Rhinos within those same walls and not in an adjacent garage, where they can be properly maintained, by whoever is responsible for that, without bothering the Sisters in their off-time. Once the Sisters do go out on a mission, they can simply pick up whatever equipment they need, maybe bless and annoint it and be off to wherever they're needed.

 

Quite similar with the major Orders "having" ships. I have a hard time imagening the Sisters actually owning ships, purposefully build for them, complete with huge Fleur de Lys markings on them, maned exclusively or even partially by Sisters of Battle (counting the psykers needed for Warptravel as organic components of the ship). Even though I'd imagine, most profane jobs on a spaceship to be done by Servitors, I'd think positions like ship cook, steering and communications to be a waste of a properly trained Battle Sister.

Now if the Ecclesiarchy were allowed to posess unarmed ships, I could totally live with that. I recon such ships the equivalent of today's private jets or yachts. Big enough for most Sistery purposes, unless they're required to infiltrate warzones or enemy occupied territories, defended or blockaded by enemy naval forces. In that case they'd definitly need support form either the Imperial Navy and/or the Inquisition.

If the Ecclesiarchy is not allowed its own ships, I could live with that too. I could certainly see the major Orders being granted the luxury of having a few smaller ships, being designated by the navy, to be at their service. And since a typical Sister force is nowhere near the size of typical Imperial Guard force, I can also see the Sisters primarily using civil transports, which should be running around plenty within the imperium conducting trade and shipping around supplies and raw materials and such. Any larger deployments like a War of Faith, would neccessitate cooperation with the Navy, in any case.

 

And in case it doesn't seem like it, I am not out to forcibly change anyones view on 40k fluff, either. I just present my angle and enjoy the discussion and how others percieve the 40k Universe.

[dracpanzer]

I just don't see the neccessity, to park their Rhinos within those same walls and not in an adjacent garage, where they can be properly maintained, by whoever is responsible for that.

The problem is that a Sororitas Rhino isnt "just" a Rhino. They are holy shrines each and everyone, a symbol of both the Emperors power and Protection as well as a symbol of the Sororitas Faith and Service. It would surprise me if Sisters didnt have a very strict eye on who touches their vehicles and would ensure that they were treated with the care and protection Sacred objects should be treated.

 

A garage in the back yard doesnt seem to fit that bill for me, sorry. Just not my Sororitas kind of crazy.

[Grgobart]

A garage in the back yard doesnt seem to fit that bill for me, sorry. Just not my Sororitas kind of crazy.

I kind of have the feeling, that perhaps garages where you come from, might look very different from what I'm used to seeing?!?

But if it helps, think of a sacred garage, the holy grounds of parking, a shrine of storage or the chapel of maintinance. Does any of that sound good enough to imagine a suitable spot for our Sisters' precious Rhinos and other equipment?

[dracpanzer]

 

A garage in the back yard doesnt seem to fit that bill for me, sorry. Just not my Sororitas kind of crazy.

 

I kind of have the feeling, that perhaps garages where you come from, might look very different from what I'm used to seeing?!?:huh:

But if it helps, think of a sacred garage, the holy grounds of parking, a shrine of storage or the chapel of maintinance. Does any of that sound good enough to imagine a suitable spot for our Sisters' precious Rhinos and other equipment?

I really couldnt say, other than I would think that a Sororitas vehicle would be stored in blessed chapel that would just so happen to have repair capabilities hidden amongst the gold, parchment, candles and martyr's bones. Sisters are religious fanatics without compare and their vehicles are shrines to them. I dont see them taking the matter lightly. Certainly not in a garage away outside temple grounds.

 

If it says anything, the vehicles get the same 6++ save the Sisters get themselves.

[Servant of Dante]

We can argue it either way, but I still like the idea of Sisters caring for their own equipment.

 

As for the Sisters' ships, most of the menial jobs can be done by no-Sororitas faithful, while still being owned by the SoB.

 

Like how I assume there are serfs on Space Marine battle barges.

 

BTW, this is me typing this, not an anonymous other

[Grgobart]

Certainly not in a garage away outside temple grounds.

It's either my English or my general capability to explain things that seems to be letting me down here. :(

 

Let's try again: The physical Convent, the operational base of a Convent, or whatever you might call it, is a group of buildings or a building complex. The whole of which, I'd presume, is off limits for civilians and most others and is guarded by some Sisters on duty.

I hope, we can all agree up to this point.

 

Within the borders of this physical Convent, I assume there to be a secluded area, an inner Sanctum, where there are truly only Sisters allowed to be in and I recon them to spent their off duty time there. But apart from that inner Sanctum, I imagine there to be an another Area or two, still within the physical Convent, that isn't strictly Sisters only but still not open to the general public. One such Area would be a kind of reception, where Ecclesiachy officials or Inquisitors can come in to visit and discuss things with the Canoness, without breeching the Sisters' inner Sanctum on the one hand and not having to potentially delicate discussion outside the Convent on the open street. Another one would be a sort of logistical area, where food an other supplies can be delivered and stored away properly, and not have every delivery dumped in front of the gates and having to be dragged in by the Sisters, just so no delivery guy enters the Sisters-only-zone.

 

Now my version of things, sees there being another such area that is the garage (or the "sacred halls of storage" if you really need a fancy name for it ;)), which is still within the physical Convent but outside the inner Sanctum.

 

This doesn't mean the Sisters wouldn't care for their Rhinos at all. Blessings, annointments fixing Icons and puriy seal would certainly be done by the Sisters. Certain simple repair job, the Sisters would have to know how to conduct anyway in case of battlefield repairs (e.g.: changing a faulty road wheel or track element) could be done by them also.

Its stuff like conducting proper service, overhauling the engine or finding bugs in the electrical system, that I see as non-Sistery jobs. The Sisters are fanatical indeed. And they are stricter than most in the Imperium and even the Ecclesiachy, when it comes to their beliefs. That's exactly why I can't imagine any of them, delving too much into a foreign religion like the Cult of the Machine god, to learn these rituals. Likewise the Mechanicus isn't exactly un-fanatical either and only trains those they find worthy in their arts. Something I can see hard to achive for a Sister with a fanaticaly different belief than them.

 

And I'm running out of time, so sorry for stopping rather mid-thought here.

[Servant of Dante]

That religious divide is why I can't see the Sisters letting a tech-priest touch say, an Exorcist, or even enter their convent at all. It seems more likely to me that some Sisters have the knowledge to fix said Exorcist. Maybe they are trained by the tech priests, maybe they are not. The knowledge could have been passed down from one Sister to another. Maybe the original caretakers where taught by a tech-priest, and then she taught her successor, and so on. Maybe they don't use the "proper" incense and so on, but go about appeasing the machine spirits in a slightly different way (like putting gold plating over everything and treating the vehicle as a relic).

 

It all comes down to opinion, but I prefer the idea that the Sisters know how to repair something rugged and relatively simple like a rhino chassis. Note that the 2E codex even mentions that the Ecclesiarchy has a poor relationship with the Mechanicus, but cannot repair many of the more arcane relics they possess (I do not include rhinos and similar vehicles in this category). They pay the mechanicus large sums of money to repair these relics if they are damaged. 

 

The enmity between the Mechanicus and the Ecclesiarchy is further reason for me to believe a tech-priest would not be allowed in a convent, let alone allowed to touch a holy shrine like an Exorcist.

[A.T.]

The enmity between the Mechanicus and the Ecclesiarchy is further reason for me to believe a tech-priest would not be allowed in a convent, let alone allowed to touch a holy shrine like an Exorcist.

 

The Exorcists considered most holy (those with the organ pipes) are considered such because they were built on Mars, and as such were stationed on Terra itself during the apostasy. They were presumably commissioned by Vandire along with the other weapons of that era for the Frateris Militia and the brides.

 

While the Ecclesiarchy and mechanicus don't see eye to eye on religious matters the priesthood is pretty shrewd when it comes to their working relationship, at the end of the day the ad-mech are the only game in town if you want equipment. A lot of this appears to be based on the Ecclesiarchy having traded technology and STC fragments gathered by the faithful in return for a perpetual supply of one thing or another - the eternal servitude of some percentage of a forgeworlds output providing immolators, power armour, conversion fields and the like is a small price to pay for a fragment of the holy STC.

[Servant of Dante]

True, but I'm more interested in the upkeep and repair of such vehicles, which I think could easily be done by the Sisters themselves. Maybe one of the things they bartered for was a working knowledge of how to fix a rhino.

[Grgobart]

I agree with A.T., the notion of the Sisters not allowing Techpriests to even touch their Equipment is rather void, seeing it's them who actually builld and manufactured it.

I do like the thought though, of two Sisters standing in front of a Rhino, which had just had to have its engine replaced by Techpriests. And one of the Sisters saying to the other in utter disdain: "This one's got meddled with by some Techpriests, better give it an extra round of cleansing and blessing!" :)

 

I do however see the point of Sisters not being to keen on allowing Techpriest within their Convents, which makes me kind of favor the 3rd party variant. Both sides finding a bunch of people, the Sisters find tolerable to have in their Convents on the one hand and the Mechanicus find worthy of being thought their rituals on the other.

 

As for proper knowledge of the Mechanicus being bargained or handed down generationally. I'd find both highly unlikely. For one thing, to the Mechanicus, their rites of maintinance, repair and what-not are part of their religion. So if they truly beilive in their religion, they wouldn't even know which part of their rituals are actually helping along and which ones are "just for show". As such they wouldn't even be capable to seperate these aspects, even if they'd wanted to use it to bargain with. And the insistance and dedication of the Mechanicus to keep their monopoly on all things technology within the Imperium, makes it doubtful they'd trade out such knowledge. In order to get Information, though, they seem willing to make whatever concessions neccessary. This apparent aspiration to keep knowlage to themselves, I'd imagine also plays a part in who'd they deem worthy to be thought. As I can see one of the first lessons to be, not giving the knowlage to strangers and worthiness in this sense meaning an individual being trusted enough to keep their word.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but even Tech Marines aren't thought by their predecessors and/or fellow Tech Marines, but are each and everyone of them sent to the Mechanicum for training.

 

And besides all the logiacal reasoning, to me the thought of a proper Sister of Battle lying under a Rhino's Engine compartment with oil stains on her face and a wrench in her hand just seems wrong. Isn't there enough praying and burning heretics to do in a liftime, without training and lets not forget gaining enough actual experiance, to become a proper mechanic.

[Beams]

wouldn't it be a different branch though? so like space marines have tech marines the sisters have tech nuns? They prolly wouldn't do all that much battle sistering but would do a lot of repairing...