Watching Out 1: Commanders, Chaplains, & Librarians

[Ordo Machinum]

Let's begin the "Watching Out" discussions with a focus on the Commanders of the Watch:

Watch Masters, Watch Captains, Chaplains, Librarians

 

I want to survey the boards opinions on their relevancy and useful weapon load-outs.

[Sete]

Librarians? Just for book record keeping. Abhor the witch, destroy the witch.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Well they probably suffer some of the worst from the bizarre half baked nature of the DW release.

 

Watch Master:

Pros: Very cool model. Good stats and AP2 at initiative stick.

 

Cons: Lack of options. Guardian Spear being rapid fire is stupid, I'd be tempted to give him the death bolt relic, just to have something to shoot before an assault. The Clavis, while a sweet idea, is essentially pointless in execution, short ranged, and most inconveniences Walkers, which the Master himself cannot really rumble with thanks to only having S5. It probably should have given the Master a Haywire effect of some sort.

 

Overall, suffers from being an melee focussed Marine character, without any inbuilt delivery option. You need a supporting squad and ride to use him to his full potential, which gets expensive very fast. Very cool model, but I'm not expecting to see many of them.

 

Watch Captain:

 

Pretty bog standard Marine Capitan. Also suffers quite badly form the inane option restrictions of the DW book. Why can I only take a Relic Blade in TDA? Why can't I take any other weapon than SB and Power Sword/Relic Blade if I do take TDA? Why can I take a Jump Pack but not a bike? Otherwise, he's fine, a bit lackluster, and in some ways inferior to his Codex counterpart, but either as a cheap filler to gte certain formations, or a moderate melee tank/deterrent , he has some use.

 

Chaplain:

 

Probably the worst option of the four. No options worth a damn and is a melee buff character for an army that seems to focus on shooting. Wityh assault units shaping up to be a rarity in the DW, don;t know why you'd bother with this guy.

 

Librarian:

 

It's a Marine Librarian. What's not to like. Same good power selection, reasonable point cost, it's hard to argue against these guys. Only real downside is the options blight so endemic to this release. From losing special ammo if you take TDA, to no option for improved saves outside said TDA, to no Stalker Bolter/Shotgun options, it's more of a shame at lost potential rather than a deal breaker.

 

Probably the best of the four overall.

[Silverson]

watch captain Artemis

He has a few really cool things going for him that could sway people to use him over the other options. his unlimited use poision 2+ flamer is great especially stacked with the amount of template weapons we can get in a single unit, his guaranteed warlord trait means you take away the random element of getting something and can plan accordingly. his stasis bomb can be devastating if used correctly and the luck element can be slimmed down with the combinations of his high WS, mission tactics/ divination, then as a meh addition he gets 6+ fnp which is ok but nothing to shout about. all in all not a bad all rounder hq choice tho is down sides are that of a standard marine in his 3+ save and only a 4++

[Brother Captain Kezef]

watch captain Artemis

He has a few really cool things going for him that could sway people to use him over the other options. his unlimited use poision 2+ flamer is great especially stacked with the amount of template weapons we can get in a single unit, his guaranteed warlord trait means you take away the random element of getting something and can plan accordingly. his stasis bomb can be devastating if used correctly and the luck element can be slimmed down with the combinations of his high WS, mission tactics/ divination, then as a meh addition he gets 6+ fnp which is ok but nothing to shout about. all in all not a bad all rounder hq choice tho is down sides are that of a standard marine in his 3+ save and only a 4++

 

I think allot of fans of the old Inquisitor game will be using Artemis out of nostalgia

 

http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/img3cb99e5f9a73d.jpg

[BrainFireBob]

Watch Master: He's going to depend on the squad he's with. Like all DW, his lack of an assault weapon is telling- but he can toss a grenade if added to a shotgun squad. He's definitely targeted at walkers, between the clavis and his block rule.

 

Chaplain: Rerolling hits for a dedicated CC squad, as in all marine codices.

 

Librarians: This one's interesting: They're also available across multiple kill-teams. Single-power librarians might be the way to go.

 

Captain: Eh. Haven't thought him through too much

[Spinsanity]

Here are the loadouts I'd take :

 

Watch master

- Relic ammo (so he has an Assault bolter, thus being able to shoot and charge)

- MB (as BrainFireBob stated, he's built to deal with walkers, so should at least be able to wound them)

 

Chaplain

- Outside the Stetegium command squad (that's the one, right?) I don't really see a use for him. Aquilla KTs already RR 1s, so his hatred isn't nearly as usefull as usual. Take him as-is or just add a MB...

- As a possible "fluffy" option, if you have a librarian, have a BT chaplain babysit him as his personal comissar...

 

Libby

- Same as usual applies, although the reduced options is a bummer.

 

Captain

- In a Command team, he can play the role of Apothecary-wannabe, so might as well be modelled as one for those who want an apoth somehow.

- In a backfield objective camping sniper team, he could take the forcefield relic and keep 'em even safer with the 4++/6+++ saves...

[BrainFireBob]

Proposal:

 

Mini-deathstar? 5 terminators, 5 assault cannons, attached Watch Master, deep strike in?

 

Master's there to tank/absorb challenges/carry the 4++ shield/impair Knights and walkers. Termies are there to shoot.

[Slips]

A question:

 

Does the effect of the Clavis Stack? And if so, if you somehow took 4 Watch Masters and Dropped them around, say a Knight, would that reduce the stats affected by the Clavis' by -4 rendering them WS/BS/I 0 and thus unable to shoot or swing in Melee?

[Spinsanity]

A question:

Does the effect of the Clavis Stack? And if so, if you somehow took 4 Watch Masters and Dropped them around, say a Knight, would that reduce the stats affected by the Clavis' by -4 rendering them WS/BS/I 0 and thus unable to shoot or swing in Melee?

Hahaha, nice catch :) Pricy (that's 700pts minimum) but hilarious nonetheless

[Slips]

I mean, you could also do it to a Warhound/Reaver/Warlord Titan to the same effect.

 

So, theres an Idea for Apocalypse games...

Edited August 16, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Vel'Cona]

Chaplain does unlock FC for his squad in a Strategium Command Team.  Of the three options, this is easily the best for this Formation if you want to run a fat Land Raider/Corvus Blackstar squad, and it stacks nicely with Zealot.  He's reasonably cheap too, allowing more points to tool up a CC Deathstar.

[Lysere]

Chaplain does unlock FC for his squad in a Strategium Command Team. Of the three options, this is easily the best for this Formation if you want to run a fat Land Raider/Corvus Blackstar squad, and it stacks nicely with Zealot. He's reasonably cheap too, allowing more points to tool up a CC Deathstar.

This. On his own he is the least useful, in that formation though he is hands down the best if used with an appropriate squad.

[Indefragable]

Agree with all points above. 

 

I guess Watch Masters with Clavis are the new Ordos Xenos Inquisitors with Rad grenades?

 

For me (Blood Angel at heart) I see LIbrarians as the most useful. 70pts for Psychic Shrieks and +1 to DtW. What's not to like? 

 

I am truly surprised about the Captain and Chaplain...."Space Marine Special Forces?" yea....those guys are the special ones alright... Captain can become a beatstick if you dump points into him....but then again so can every other Captain from every other Chapter. 

 

Watch Master seems like a way for them to test out the Guardian Spear....and nothing more. Seriously. Other than the Rule of Cool and adding yet another Mission Tactics change I just don't get this guy. 

[Vel'Cona]

 

I am truly surprised about the Captain and Chaplain...."Space Marine Special Forces?" yea....those guys are the special ones alright... Captain can become a beatstick if you dump points into him....but then again so can every other Captain from every other Chapter. 

 

Watch Master seems like a way for them to test out the Guardian Spear....and nothing more. Seriously. Other than the Rule of Cool and adding yet another Mission Tactics change I just don't get this guy. 

 

The DW Captain is pretty much crap, I have to say.  No access to a Bike, EW or FnP and oddly restrictive options make him subpar in nearly every way.  I can make an argument for the Watch Master simply because he's got decent wargear and his special rule is somewhat helpful, but the Captain isn't worth his salt in any DW list.

[Spinsanity]

 

I am truly surprised about the Captain and Chaplain...."Space Marine Special Forces?" yea....those guys are the special ones alright... Captain can become a beatstick if you dump points into him....but then again so can every other Captain from every other Chapter. 

 

Watch Master seems like a way for them to test out the Guardian Spear....and nothing more. Seriously. Other than the Rule of Cool and adding yet another Mission Tactics change I just don't get this guy.

 

The DW Captain is pretty much crap, I have to say.  No access to a Bike, EW or FnP and oddly restrictive options make him subpar in nearly every way.  I can make an argument for the Watch Master simply because he's got decent wargear and his special rule is somewhat helpful, but the Captain isn't worth his salt in any DW list.

 

While not quite as good as a "true" FnP, the Captain does have access to 6++ FnP...

[Brother Sefiel]

Hi

 

Someone else mentioned librarian with stalker bolter squad giving them relentless (possibly with the special shield).

 

Do you guys think that's viable?

[mika_angelus]

If you roll it on biomancy then sure. No other way to get relentless. Edited August 17, 2016 by mika_angelus

[fedratsailor]

wouldn't a terminator librarian confer it?? I don't play very often, more of a collector.

[Slips]

Relentless isn't a conferred rule.

[Lysere]

wouldn't a terminator librarian confer it?? I don't play very often, more of a collector.

Cataphractii armor would with slow and purposeful but death watch don't have access to it. You could ally in a codex marine faction for that but not sure it would really be worth the points.

 

Also the captain does at least have one great use that codex marines don't get, xenophase blade at I5 would be pretty mean against other characters. That's about all he gets over his codex equivalents.

[wildweasel]

 

wouldn't a terminator librarian confer it?? I don't play very often, more of a collector.

Cataphractii armor would with slow and purposeful but death watch don't have access to it. You could ally in a codex marine faction for that but not sure it would really be worth the points.

 

Also the captain does at least have one great use that codex marines don't get, xenophase blade at I5 would be pretty mean against other characters. That's about all he gets over his codex equivalents.

Other characters without a 2+ - which doesn't necessarily make him bad, but does mean you have to be careful what you point him at.

[Canadian_F_H]

Demons still have invulnerable saves only yes?

[Irbis]

 

Chaplain does unlock FC for his squad in a Strategium Command Team. Of the three options, this is easily the best for this Formation if you want to run a fat Land Raider/Corvus Blackstar squad, and it stacks nicely with Zealot. He's reasonably cheap too, allowing more points to tool up a CC Deathstar.

This. On his own he is the least useful, in that formation though he is hands down the best if used with an appropriate squad.

 

I don't know. For the points of 5 TH/SS Termies with Chaplain and 5 vets with power weapons you can take a squad with 5 AC Termies, 4 Frag Cannons, and auspex that will output more better wounds at range, drown enemies trying to charge them in overwatch AP2 wounds, and is not really afraid of enemy overwatch or striking back. Hmm. I guess shooty DW just appeals to me more than melee, DW isn't going to be able to compete with Wulfen, Thunderwolves, melee superheavies or IH Smash team, so I don't really see point in trying to to that.

[Vel'Cona]

 

I don't know. For the points of 5 TH/SS Termies with Chaplain and 5 vets with power weapons you can take a squad with 5 AC Termies, 4 Frag Cannons, and auspex that will output more better wounds at range, drown enemies trying to charge them in overwatch AP2 wounds, and is not really afraid of enemy overwatch or striking back. Hmm. I guess shooty DW just appeals to me more than melee, DW isn't going to be able to compete with Wulfen, Thunderwolves, melee superheavies or IH Smash team, so I don't really see point in trying to to that.

 

 

I'd have to agree with those points; in general, any strategy that points to melee had better be ridiculously durable.  Without access to FnP, EW or Toughness boosts (other than Psychic powers, which we all know not to count on) C:DW will definitely struggle in the melee arena.  They can be built to dish out punishment, but so can nearly every SM list and that still doesn't make them melee-competitive as a rule.  In most cases, DW will want to build for shooting first and use melee as a "clean up" or anti-armour option (since we have access to some pretty brutal armour killing melee weapons).  My point with the Chaplain/Strategium Command Team was that it's probably the only semi-viable way to field him, though once again I'd definitely agree that it's not optimal for most scenarios.