Watching Out 5: Vanguard Veterans

[Vel'Cona]

My current thought is to remove the backpacks and use them as veterans,

 

Exactly my plan.  They make good Black Shields/aggressive Veterans with the running pose, and they're not quite as awkward as older Assault Marines legs, size wise.

 

 

Although the general consensus seems to be that they're not up to much... I do still have five from Death Masque to build!

 

Would 3 x LC and 2 x TH/SS be a good loadout, if I'm running a unit of 5 in a CAD?

If I were running a squad of 5 I would go 2 with Heavy Thunder Hammers and 3 with a single Lightning Claw (or a power weapon of choice), Storm Shield and Melta Bombs (HTH's don't need Melta Bombs as their hammers can do the same, but can make more than one attack).

 

 

That unit is 245 points, unless my math is really bad.  Assuming the GW FAQs are legit, grenades (including MBs) are only one attack per unit, therefore you could cut 10 points by dropping two bombs.  Other than that, I'd argue this is an OK way to play VVs as a unit, though frankly I'd just run them cheap with all twin LCs and a single MB and leave anti-armour work to my Veterans.

[Grimdeath]

Based on this feedback, I'm thinking removing my jump packs and making them all close combat Veterans flavored with power swords, thunder hammers, shields. I also want to make some cool customized dudes for my DW and I think this is a good opportunity. I wasn't much of a fan of Vanguard Vets to begin with. Thanks!

[Irbis]

Why several people suggested dual claws? It's strictly worst loadout VV can have, power weapon + pistol are cheaper, don't lose ranged attack, and main selling point of claws (rerolls) DW already has in spades. I suppose you have that reroll regardless of circumstances, but power weapons are much more versatile, you can tool S and AP to your local meta easily.

[Vel'Cona]

Why several people suggested dual claws? It's strictly worst loadout VV can have, power weapon + pistol are cheaper, don't lose ranged attack, and main selling point of claws (rerolls) DW already has in spades. I suppose you have that reroll regardless of circumstances, but power weapons are much more versatile, you can tool S and AP to your local meta easily.

As a splash model in a Kill Team, I agree 100%, dual claws are somewhat pointless. The question was regarding playing a "pure" VV squad, where they wouldn't have access to those re-rolls To Wound and would therefore gain a much larger benefit. I'd imagine a unit with PW and BP would be a lot more versatile, though you do run the risk of your assault target being killed out of charge range and/or fleeing via shooting (and Vengeance Rounds are incredibly risky). I think the only real option to use pure VV is to focus them on a single target, and since MEQ are a safe bet the LCs make the most sense.

That said, I think pure VV in C:DW are hot garbage in most respects so I'm trying rationalize a suboptimal unit right out of the gate.

[Lysere]

If you really want to take some standard vanguard outside of a kill team an allied Shadowstrike kill team from Angels of Death would be better. Combined with the beacon relic and you can even use them in perfect tandem with your Deathwatch. This is actually something I plan on doing next time I play a game big enough.

 

You also get some cheap objective holders in the form of scouts that you can leave in the back field or use aggressively to increase the effectiveness of the Vanguard.

[Vel'Cona]

If I wasn't going to model the VVs from Death Masque up as Veterans, this would probably be my next choice. That said, they'd work even better as AM in a Skyhammer, just sayin'.

[Lysere]

If I wasn't going to model the VVs from Death Masque up as Veterans, this would probably be my next choice. That said, they'd work even better as AM in a Skyhammer, just sayin'.

Considering how bad assault marines are compared to Vanguard, and the shadowstrike provides the exact same assault out of deepstrike while letting you choose exactly when you want them I'd say the shadowstrike is better. Also you don't need the devs because the deathwatch can handle the dakka role better for the most part.

Skyhammers may be good to deny overwatch but the cost of a well equipped dev squad will eat into points you could use elsewhere, and even with their bonuses assault marines are lacking.

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

 

 

My current thought is to remove the backpacks and use them as veterans,

Exactly my plan. They make good Black Shields/aggressive Veterans with the running pose, and they're not quite as awkward as older Assault Marines legs, size wise.

 

Although the general consensus seems to be that they're not up to much... I do still have five from Death Masque to build!

 

Would 3 x LC and 2 x TH/SS be a good loadout, if I'm running a unit of 5 in a CAD?

If I were running a squad of 5 I would go 2 with Heavy Thunder Hammers and 3 with a single Lightning Claw (or a power weapon of choice), Storm Shield and Melta Bombs (HTH's don't need Melta Bombs as their hammers can do the same, but can make more than one attack).

That unit is 245 points, unless my math is really bad. Assuming the GW FAQs are legit, grenades (including MBs) are only one attack per unit, therefore you could cut 10 points by dropping two bombs. Other than that, I'd argue this is an OK way to play VVs as a unit, though frankly I'd just run them cheap with all twin LCs and a single MB and leave anti-armour work to my Veterans.

Your maths is on point there!

[Grimdeath]

Vanguard Veterans do have awesome poses...sorry for the small pic but if u click on it, the detail gets better heh

[Lysere]

I feel the heavy thunder hammer is best on a veteran if being used in a killteam because it costs the same on both while other melee weapons cost less on the vanguard. Of course I feel like they just look a bit better on vanguard.

[Vel'Cona]

Vanguard Veterans do have awesome poses...sorry for the small pic but if u click on it, the detail gets better heh

I feel like one of your guys might need a hand with something.

[Jacques Corbin]

Now don't forget, a Power Sword or Maul for the cost of a Melta Bomb, and Special Ammo for the Bolt Pistol is a deal. The unit gets to reroll its charge range for just having one Vanguard in the unit.