Wishlisting: Mephiston

[Indefragable]

Ah Mephiston.

He's only been named The Lord of Death.....by the Angels of Death themselves! That's like James Bond referring to someone as the "smoothest guy I've ever known".....high praise indeed!

Don't get me wrong, Mephiston's rules aren't bad as they stand....but he definitely is lacking something as his rules are currently written. This thread is a chance for us to dream about ways he may be brought into his true glory down the road.

From my view, here are the current things holding him back:

-not a "true" ML3: sure Sanguine Sword is nice....but it prevents him from actually getting 3 powers on another table. Like...Endurance from Biomancy.

-Sanguine Sword is not bad....but being just AP3 takes this down a peg. If it made him S10 AP2, or S10 Rending, then suddenly it may be worth losing his third psychic roll

-T5: great in theory, considering he is the only loyalist SM that gets T5 without playing Hell's Angels....but

-Footslogger: in an army all about Fast vehicles and Jump Packs and such....having a footslogging character can be out of place. He has Fleet which helps, but only so much.

-no Invulnerable Save: this is a problem with Librarians in general: they are highly vulnerable to AP3/AP2. Usually you hide them in a squad, but then Mephy's unique T5 is somewhat wasted. You can get a 5++ from Sanguinary powers or a 3++ from Librarius....but that is no sure thing, especially considering the point above about him not being a "true" ML3. Mephy especially feels this issue since he is a rare type of unit: the Psychic Beatstick.

-Warlord Trait: ...is Adamantium Will. Again, not bad....but it seems like a wasted opportunity that only slightly buffs a single unit in your army (which may just be Mephy by his lonesome)

-Master Librarian with no Master Crafted weapons: kind of a pet peeve of mine, but wouldn't one of the leaders of the entire Chapter have better gear? In the fluff his sword is even named. Especially when you look at Ezekiel from the DA who has MC everything...and is meant to be a buffer, this one is a bit of a head scratcher

Compare to the other Astartes ML3s out there:

Tigurius (Ultramarines): the big cheese himself. This one gets me fuming a bit, but we'll save that for another time. What does Tiggy do? More like what doesn't Tiggy do....

• Can re-roll when choose psychic powers
• Can re-roll failed Psychic manifestation tests
• If Warlord, all units from his Detachment within 12" get Rending weapons
• Costs 165pts.....10pts less than Mephiston

Ezekiel (Dark Angels):

• Master-Crafted sword and pistol (not a huge deal) + book that gives all Dark Angels in his unit +1A.

Severin Loth (Red Scorpions, Forgeworld):

• can pick (yes, pick, not roll for) his psychic powers as long as they are all from the same table (hello, Invisibility/Endurance/Veil of Time)
• can expend a Warp Charge to give himself a 2++

Ezekiel is ok. I like using him with my DA forces since the Interromancy is so nasty. Tigurius is cheese. And Loth is Forgeworld, so at least his cheese is somewhat excusable.

So, what would you like to see happen with Mephiston?

Let's try to keep our hopes (somewhat) realistic

Commence!

[NTaW]

All I want for him is an invulnerable save. Done.

 

Oh, and a unit with Fleet from our Codex that he can join that that rule does anything at all. Or get rid of the rule on him 'cuz why the hell does he even have it if he can only use it when he's alone (barring speedy allies).

[Aubéron]

I love Mephiston but for now, the only good thing that bears his name, is the Mephiston Red ...

[Indefragable]

I'll start if off with my own thoughts. Any combination of things like the below would really bring him up to where he ought to be, IMO:

 

Profile/Stats:

-Sanguine Sword: add Rending or AP2 or such to it. Or, basically make it a guaranteed Iron Arm by changing it to:

• Sanguine Fury: When this power is activated, Mephiston gains +3 S, T, I and gains Smash)

-Adamantium Will native

-Sanguinary Master: can pick his powers from the Sanguinary discipline

-Transfixing Gaze: same as written, but in addition Mephiston gains a 4++ when fighting in a challenge (this would tip the hand of players using him to want to have him in Combat/Challenges as much as possible)

 

Buffs to units:

-New special rule:

• Lord of Death: Any Blood Angels unit that Mephiston is attached to gain Fleet.* In addition, all non-Blood Angels models (friend and foe) within 6" of Mephiston suffer -1 to their Ld, I, and A values. 
• Master of the Black Rage: Any unit Mephiston is attached to may use his Toughness profile when an enemy roles To Wound or Toughness tests, so long as Mephiston is the model in the unit closest to the enemy unit performing the action.

-his Psychic Hood looks so badass, it needs its own abilities. Works at 24" range (so if he is a ML3 + Adamantium Will....the rest of the army is not going to be getting Psychic Shrieked anytime soon)

 

*Personally, I would like to see Fleet be a Faction-wide thing for Blood Angels, but until that day....

 

 

Just my thoughts. Yours? 

[Boudan]

I think the ability to reroll psychic powers is pretty important.  I'm really not sure why all psykers can't just choose what power(s) they have.

[Indefragable]

I think the ability to reroll psychic powers is pretty important.  I'm really not sure why all psykers can't just choose what power(s) they have.

 

I think the point is that some powers are awesome-r than others. So EVERYONE would have Invisibility all the time (why not "fix" Invisibility then?) 

 

The problem is that characters like Tigurius and Loth just exasperate the gulf between the Haves and Have Nots of the psykers in the game. 

 

It would be cool if Factions could re-roll or pick powers from their own Psychic tables (Saguinary for BA, Interromancy for DA, Runes of Fate for Eldar, etc...)

[Xenith]

He's the lord of death, not because he's good at killing, but because he's mastered that which should have killed him, the black rage.

 

As such, and as benefits his fluff, e should in no way be an army buffing character, he's lone, brooding, introverted, and a monster.

 

S5 T6

Knows all BA powers, force and sanguine sword, but may only cast 3 per turn, or may take the sword and roll for 2 from another table.

 

May choose not to sweeping advance. If he does not, Mephiston regains a wound lost earlier in the battle.

[Apothecary Meros]

Librarians in my opinion, like Chaplains and Sanguinary Priests, are what I like to think as elite squad leaders. A Captain can go in by himself and make a mess, but these lesser HQs need a bit of a shield to stop them turning to paste, and in turn they make sure the squad are more difficult to smush aswell.

 

Chief Librarians should fit into the one-man-army category. However, I don't feel that Mephiston does. Back in the 5th Edition codex written by ​he who shall not be named ​when he was strength and toughness 6 with 5 wounds, I'd say he could rise to the challenge, but currently he falls short. I think his psychic powers are ok with having Sanguine Sword, since with Mephiston you're either using other Sanguinary powers, Biomancy, or you're using him wrong. He didn't become Lord of Death by casting re-rolls on devastator squads after all.

 

Some kind of invulnerable save would be a bonus, since someone of such importance should surely be protected by at least a simple Conversion Field. For a marine who rebirthed himself through sheer willpower and is generally hard as nails, I think all he needs now is It Will Not Die.

[Warsmith Uveron]

The list is small but powerful..

 

• Durable (He did come back from the dead): Invu Save, Eternal Warrior, It Will not Die.
• Powerful (I see him in the same league as Ahriman): ML4, and just make the sangine sword a replacement to the force spell. 
• Chief Librarian- allow him to have a squad of other lesser Librarians who follow him around, if he is with them give them brotherhood of psyker (So no extra powers, but places to put perils related wounds) Also solves the lack of a good squad for him to join. 

[Apothecary Meros]

One thing to remember is that although he's really tough and could probably keep Angron himself in a pretty stable headlock, his strength comes from psychic ability, so while he should get some stat bonuses and special rules, we shouldn't go overboard since its the job of his psychic powers to boost him further. If we make him a god with his baseline profile, there'd be very little point in him even having the psyker rule at all.

[SM1981]

Eternal warior would be useful. So would some sort of psychic wings / jump pack equivalent power - Fleet is OK, but doesn't help him really keep up. Give him that and Sanguine Sword (at AP2), plus 2 more to make four powers in total (2 Mandatory, 2 selectable) and i'd be happy.

[Charlo]

He's the lord of death, not because he's good at killing, but because he's mastered that which should have killed him, the black rage.

 

As such, and as benefits his fluff, e should in no way be an army buffing character, he's lone, brooding, introverted, and a monster.

 

S5 T6

Knows all BA powers, force and sanguine sword, but may only cast 3 per turn, or may take the sword and roll for 2 from another table.

 

May choose not to sweeping advance. If he does not, Mephiston regains a wound lost earlier in the battle.

 

This is all I'd want.

 

Plus AP2 on his attacks.

[Blindhamster]

Keep in mind that if he had AP2 at init attacks, eternal warrior and inflated stats there would be no place for dante.

 

Internal codex balance is still important too.

 

I'd think that making sanguine sword be AP2 s10, and giving him something like the old wings power back would be fine tbh. Ties his effectiveness to psychic powers, but he's still great.

[Arkaniss]

I like a few ideas here - I'm someone who feels that Mephiston should be ML4 and I really like the idea of him being able to pick his powers if he chooses all from the Sanguinary Discipline. An Invulnerable save would also be very nice I think he needs one. That said I believe all Librarians as befitting characters and heroes of their respective chapters should get one: a Librarian version of an Iron Halo or Rosarius.

 

I agree with Blindhamster that his power comes from overcoming the flaw and being a monsterously powerful Psyker so I don't see a need to go nuts with his stat line and equipment - let his Psychic powers be his strength.

[Charlo]

Does he have Fear?

 

If not I'm pretty sure he should have fear.

 

Though I suppose the current Transfixing Gaze is rather similar.

[Lasuria]

- I'm someone who feels that Mephiston should be ML4 (...)

 

IIRC it is said in the codex that no other member of the Astartes could best him after his rebirth (I understood it as "no other librarians"), so I always wondered why he was not ML4 ... 

[Charlo]

Our codex is written around a theme of restriction and conservative rules, as was the time...

 

As opposed to the Necron, Eldar, Tau, Vanilla Murheens and even DA that followed. So they probably wanted the only level 4 back then to be Mr. Eldrad himself (...if he even was 4 at this point? He is now!)

 

Mephiston is a character in our book that is RIFE for change, especially when you look at Tiggy. Though I would certainly like to keep him as "the Ultimate combat psyker" as opposed to "Red Tiggy handing out army candy."

 

Due to his old model and GW's love for redoing classic characters in plastic right now (Ulrik, Iron Priest, Eldrad and with Khârn on the way) I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Mephiston get a new model to fit a 32mm and some awesome pose with new rules featured in the updated Dex we'll no doubt get when those "VS Tyranids" rumors start to come true next year. HELL - a load of Marine factions are confirmed to be getting plastic Primarchs coming back and while that isn't an option for us (I hope) either Mephiston or the Sanguinor would be great for that role.

[Indefragable]

Good points, everyone. 

 

• AP2 seems unanimous. 
• ML4 is an interesting idea, for sure. For me, the important thing is that he gets to roll/pick/end up with 3 powers in addition to Sanguine Sword. 
• I like the idea of him being set apart, and even feared, by his own side as much as the enemy. That's where my idea of any unit he is in gets to use his Toughness value for wounds comes from: "Get behind me, brothers." "Yea, sure thing Mephy...." <Tacticals slowly back away and stand behind him>
• In terms of internal balance to the Codex: I understand the concern but I think having THREE Eternal Warriors (Dante, The Sanguinor, and Mephiston) is part of what makes the BA stand out. It could be a bit top-heavy, but that's part of what makes the Chapter with the longest-living members stand out. Sure, Iron Hands can roll up with Chapter Master Smasher, but he is just one man. WE have THREE EWs!!! etc.... Eternal Warrior also makes the lack of a native invuln save just a tad bit better. 

 

It is somewhat of a foregone conclusion that BA will see some sort of Librarius Conclave down the road. I will probably be in the minority here, but I hope its rules are a bit different than the others and that the flavor of the rules alters a bit whether Mephy is present or not. He's not just another Librarian, after all. 

[Indefragable]

Our codex is written around a theme of restriction and conservative rules, as was the time...

 

As opposed to the Necron, Eldar, Tau, Vanilla Murheens and even DA that followed. So they probably wanted the only level 4 back then to be Mr. Eldrad himself (...if he even was 4 at this point? He is now!)

 

Mephiston is a character in our book that is RIFE for change, especially when you look at Tiggy. Though I would certainly like to keep him as "the Ultimate combat psyker" as opposed to "Red Tiggy handing out army candy."

 

Due to his old model and GW's love for redoing classic characters in plastic right now (Ulrik, Iron Priest, Eldrad and with Khârn on the way) I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Mephiston get a new model to fit a 32mm and some awesome pose with new rules featured in the updated Dex we'll no doubt get when those "VS Tyranids" rumors start to come true next year. HELL - a load of Marine factions are confirmed to be getting plastic Primarchs coming back and while that isn't an option for us (I hope) either Mephiston or the Sanguinor would be great for that role.

 

They can't bring back Sanguinius. I hope that is self-explanatory to everyone with even a passing familiarity with 40k....including GW employees....

 

Like my comment above, I think it would be cool if BA had sort of a Triumvirate instead with 3x Eternal Warrior characters instead that, while on their own, are not the equal of a Primarch (they shouldn't be), having all three on the field at the same time has a Titan-level effect on the battlefield (3x 4W Eternal Warriors would be a tough nut to crack for sure....yes I think Mephy should have 4W). 

 

Now.....as for the Sanguinor....that's probably its own thread by my personal thoughts involve the words Monstrous and Creature (S6/T6?)

[The Unseen]

All he really needs is AP2, either native or when he activates sanguine sword, either would be fine. And would love for him to know all the sanguinary discipline powers, rather than rolling. Then again, I hate rolling for powers, totally kills the feeling of "your dudes" for me. Much preferred the old way of having 1 (or 2 in very few cases) list of powers for Librarians to take/buy per codex. Made much more sense, and was way easier to balance.

He doesn't need any of that other stuff, not ML4 for sure, Mephy isn't the strongest psychic out there, Eldrad should be better at doing Psyker things than him. Cause I don't see Eldrad breaking daemon princes or hordes of orks with his bare hands. Maybe give him a buff to casting sanguinary powers, as that's what he should be casting, to make him even more of a monster.

 

I don't know about you guys, but I can't think of any other "Psyker" that could take Mephiston in a 1v1, so I'd say he lives up to his name, mostly. Just give him AP2 for the Emperor's sake.

[Warsmith Uveron]

All he really needs is AP2, either native or when he activates sanguine sword, either would be fine. And would love for him to know all the sanguinary discipline powers, rather than rolling. Then again, I hate rolling for powers, totally kills the feeling of "your dudes" for me. Much preferred the old way of having 1 (or 2 in very few cases) list of powers for Librarians to take/buy per codex. Made much more sense.

 

I just wish he didn't need to activate 2 powers to get the Sanguine Sword and Force. I mean S10 is ok... But He has S5 anyway (6 on the charge), Instant Death is just more useful when fighting things with T>6. It would not be overpowered for him to have a special Force spell, that gives him AP2, S10, Instant Death. 

[Charlo]

Sanguine Rage:

 

WC2 - Until your next Psychic Phase, all of Mephistons attacks are SX2 AP with the instant Death Special Rule.

 

Combine with Quickening for the man.

[Indefragable]

Sanguine Rage:

 

WC2 - Until your next Psychic Phase, all of Mephistons attacks are SX2 AP2 with the Instant Death Special Rule.

 

This power is always known to Mephiston and he may gain up to 3 more powers from the following tables xyz etc...

 

 

Polished it for you. That way he's still "only" ML3 (so he's not topping Eldrad et al) but can still be a psychic beast. 

 

Sanguine Mastery: 

Mephiston may pick powers from the Sanguinary table. He does not need to roll for them.. [now you can always get a 5++ and Quickening if you like]. 

 

Something like that. 

[LutherMax]

Interesting and exciting ideas here chaps. I do love me some Mephiston!

 

Off topic but I just wanted to chime in quickly and say...

 

Due to his old model and GW's love for redoing classic characters in plastic right now (Ulrik, Iron Priest, Eldrad and with Khârn on the way) I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Mephiston get a new model to fit a 32mm and some awesome pose with new rules featured in the updated Dex

I think you're right here, and I'm hoping Dante and Tycho get the same treatment (even though I have kit-bashes of both (and Meph) that I'm happy with...

[Boudan]

I'm a little out of my depth here, but I'll offer that if Mephiston was permitted to choose among available psychic powers, he could otherwise have many of the upgrades that other, wiser Frater have suggested for him.  While this conversation is about Big M specifically, I think the same could be argued for all psykers in a more balanced game: a psyker's strengths should be largely defined by what they choose to take as psychic powers, not by what traits they inherently have.  (I.e. choose a power that grants AP2, rather than AP2 as a natural state of being).  Just my two cents.