Minsc Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 So I just made an order on some more Imperial Guard, which amongst other things included a Leman Russ. The main reason for this, is that I want to have some variation when I field the 'Emperors Fist' Armoured Company-formation from the Cadia Supplement. Currently, I have 4 Leman Russes; 1 Eradicator. 1 Vanquisher. 1 Punisher. 1 Executioner. Now the formation requires a minimum of 4 Leman Russes (Tank Commander and 3 LR Squadrons = at least 4), but I don't want to be forced to always field the 4 russes I already have - as I said, I want some variation. And what Russ would add the most variation? Either to field on it's own, or in a squadron of two, or as a sidekick to the Tank Commander? A Exterminator? A Battletank? An additional Eradicator? An additional Vanquisher? What do you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 You mean aside from magnetisation of course? ;) Looks to me like you need a bit more variety, the tanks you have already are ones that can mostly truck around as the only type in your list and do fine, exception being perhaps the Punisher (e.g. as a 2 man HQ squad of torrenting doom). I would look at a Battletank personally - easily turret swapped for a Vanquisher too, but then you could get a second have have them as a couple of good options to take :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Its actually 5 tanks minimum Commander + buddy + 3 tank squadrons The last 3 tanks you listed are all from the same kit. Check out the magnatisation thread and that way you'll never be stuck with just the one. Similarly for the demolisher pattern ones too. The LBRT tanks are the cheapest pointswise though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 Its actually 5 tanks minimum Commander + buddy + 3 tank squadrons That's not how I interpret it. The Formation is "1 Tank Commander, 3 Leman Russ Squadrons and 1-3 Enginseers". As per the rules in Codex AM, A Tank Commander is put inside a Leman Russ in a squadron, so I see nothing that prevents the Tank Commanders unit to be considered one of the three mandatory LR-units - after all, they are LR-unit, just HQ instead of HS in a CAD, but as far as the formation go, this is irrelevant. If you have a Tank Commander with a friend, and then 3 additional (lone) Russes, you technically have 4 Leman Russ Squadrons, not 3. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lippy Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Wasn't it in the FAQ (1st draft) that where it states Tank Commander you should think of it as the whole unit (Ie, both tanks)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 A tank commander unit requires 2 tanks (commander + buddy). The you need 3 LR squadrons which are separate entries in the codex. Yes Lippy, I'm pretty sure it was also in the recent IG FAQ draft. You'll find battlescribe and the likes interpret it that way too. So 5, but hey if your group lets you play that way Im not going to argue. Just trying to help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 But a Tank Commander joins a existing LR Squadron. A LR squadron is still a LR squadron, regardless if there's a tank commander present or not. The AM codex even specifies this; A Tank Commander starts the game in a Leman Russ tank, leading a Leman Russ squadron. [...]A Tank Commander and his Leman Russ Squadron counts as a HQ choice for the entire of the battle. So if you have a Tank Commander with a LR-friend, and then 3 additional LR-squadrons, you technically have 4 LR-squadrons, not 3.As for battlescribe I can't really see it as a viable source for a ruling, since it tends to have plenty of errors, and my gaminggroup has decided to ignore the recent FAQ's since they are not official, full of contradictions, and contains a multitude of silly answers that doesn't make sense and makes the game worse. (as drop pods doors counting as a part of the model for all intents and purposes.) Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into a rules debate. Edit: Anyhow, since I'm useless at magnetizing (it's a good tip otherwise, thanks for the link), I'll probably go with an additional Vanquisher. It's probably my favourite LR (gotta love anti-tank-tanks), and it becomes really great with BS4, plus I get the options to either 1) go with 2 lone Vanquishers 2) put my tank commander in a Vanquisher and have him join a Vanquisher-friend so that a failed order isn't the end of the world, 3) use it as a sort of count-as LRBT since they're so similar in appearance.Two Eradicators seems superflous, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like the Exterminator offers something that the other LR's don't do, let alone the AM-army as a whole; it's not like we're short on Autocannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Tank Commanders don't join existing squadrons, they are part of a squadron that is taken in the HQ slot and must consist of a squadron of at least two tanks, including the Tank Commander. :) Otherwise a Tank Commander squadron take up a HQ and Heavy Support slot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lippy Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 That all may be fair play, however, under the Tank Commander's unit entry, the Codex also states The Tank Commander's squadron must include 1-2 other Leman Russ tanks chosen from those listed in the Heavy Support Section. imo, if you fail to respect this rule, then what other crazy rules could your opponent ignore? (sorry to also turn this into a rules debate... ) I'd also vote for magentising! but if you don't fancy that then LRBT Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 It refers to the list in Heavy Support to save having to copy-paste the Leman Russ entry itself into the Tank Commander entry. No rules are being ignored here, and no rules are being "disrespected." You take a Tank Commander in your HQ Slots,The Tank Commander must take a Leman Russ variant tank, referencing the list with points values in Heavy Support, They must then take 1-2 Leman Russ variant tanks as part of their squadron, referencing the list with points values in Heavy Support, You now have a Leman Russ squadron in your HQ slot, one of which is the Tank Commander, Also the Punisher, Exterminator and Eradicator are all cheaper than the LRBT. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lippy Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Sorry coffeegrunt, I think you may have misunderstood me. My post was in response to the OP and I agree with you. Minsc- What kind of Leman Russ kit did you buy? Is it the Leman Russ Battle Tank (or vanquisher/Eradicator) variant, or Leman Russ Demolisher (or Punisher/Exterminator/Executioner)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 Minsc- What kind of Leman Russ kit did you buy? Is it the Leman Russ Battle Tank (or vanquisher/Eradicator) variant, or Leman Russ Demolisher (or Punisher/Exterminator/Executioner)? It's the regular LRBT-kit, so it can be assembled into either a LBRT, a Vanquisher, a Eradicator or a *Exterminator. (*Edit: The Demolisher-kit can be assembled into Punishers and Executioners, not Exterminators.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I'd build a Battle Tank ! I'm going to hate building a Tank Company... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Yeah the Tank Commander must be accompanied by his own squadron. All of which fall in the HQ slot (or formation in this case) Expanding in a Emperors Fist, Vanqs really need the BS4 the Commander provides to be effective. That said I also really like double BS4 Punishers, its so devastating. That will give you your full company. Veterans in Chimeras make a nice compliment to the Fist, racing forward and grabbing objectives, melta or plasma-ing things. Adding a sixth tank is never a bad thing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonbandito Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Double Vanquishers for the Tank Commander and his buddy are nice in the Emperor's Fist Armoured Company because you can guarantee the offsider will have BS4 since he'll always be within 12" ;) I actually don't mind running a naked LRBT as a Vanquisher Commanders buddy either, mainly because the Battle Cannon has the same range as the Vanquisher. Normally I'd be split firing them, but at least its a high strength Ordnance shot to help strip a HP if you fail the split fire order Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4475902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lippy Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Minsc- What kind of Leman Russ kit did you buy? Is it the Leman Russ Battle Tank (or vanquisher/Eradicator) variant, or Leman Russ Demolisher (or Punisher/Exterminator/Executioner)? It's the regular LRBT-kit, so it can be assembled into either a LBRT, a Vanquisher, a Eradicator or a *Exterminator. (*Edit: The Demolisher-kit can be assembled into Punishers and Executioners, not Exterminators.) Yeah sorry my bad. I got confused with the as the autocannon barrels are so teensy weeny compared to the Battlecannon/vanq/erad barrels Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4476114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Like Warriorfish said magnetization is always the best idea, my Russes can be a lot of different variants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4476609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero88 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 While the question is out there, is anyone still using the Executioner with the new preferred enemy nerf? I can see triple heavy bolter with the turret gun still potentially being viable, as you can move and shoot, and the guns compliment each other. Also Pass firing the blinding big blast with a pair of sponsor shots is also only 3 gets hot rolls a turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4478917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I used to love going all-out on the Executioner, but now with the nerf I can't see myself running it. 3 Plasma Cannon shots at 155pts is alright, but not amazing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4478934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I used to run it alone when I first got mine. The amusement of it blowing it self up every second game got old after the 4th time. Which is when I buddied him up with Pask. So no probably not, he will most likely sit on the shelf until 8th should that FAQ be confirmed. *sigh* as if LR's didn't struggle enough this edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4479059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lippy Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I dream of lumbering behemoth returning... I just prefer everything about the BattleCannons and DemolisherCannons over all the other variants... and my poor sponson heavybolters are just decoration Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4479076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I used to love going all-out on the Executioner, but now with the nerf I can't see myself running it. 3 Plasma Cannon shots at 155pts is alright, but not amazing. Nerf? Wut? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4479093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Can't re-roll the Gets Hot results anymore. :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4479104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Yep, it has effectively put the nail in the plasma Executioner o'doom. Unless you babysit him with a Techpriest or something, but that has its own issues. Can't remember the last time my Executioner hit the table, I just go for the Demolishers instead. Maybe I'll take it next game for a laugh? Without plasma sponsons that is :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4479132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Can't re-roll the Gets Hot results anymore. :/ Oh yeah true, true. Ya know as luck has it, I almost never hit a one on those rolls. Just luck, can't roll LD or Orders checks to save my life though lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325009-what-to-make-of-my-new-russ/#findComment-4479186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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