Hints at the SW/ TS RoW/ rules on FW site...

[Charlo]

So in the Friday bulletin advertising the 20 man tactical squads & Legion Upgrade bundles, FW included a little "choose your legion" section that has a nice overview/ history/ tactics for the legion.

Now, most of these seem to be taken from the main books... Specifically it seems from the wargear/ rites of war descriptions

Funnily enough the Vlka and Sorcerer's have some text too!

SW Text:

Since the days of the VIth Legion's inception on Terra, it has remained a Legion apart from its fellows, its origins shrouded as it garnered a fearsome reputation for its warriors' prowess as a shock-assault force as well as tireless pursuers and a peerless hunter-killer force. Unexpected violence was the Legion's calling card, its campaigns unsubtle, but brutally swift. Like their latter-day namesakes, the wolves of old Terra, its warriors' assaults are calculated exercises in ferocity, aimed to tear and rend until the foe lies in ruins or is driven to its death.

Conditioned to hold a near-suicidal disregard for danger and trained to exploit this to the fullest on the battlefield, the heavy infantry that form the core of the Legion's battalions are a force that has been honed in battle against the countless enemies of Mankind and, it is whispered, against their own wayward brothers. For, unlike their brother Legions, the Space Wolves were kept under the tight control of the Imperial Court and unleashed at the Emperor's command as often to chastise those who would renege on their oaths of service as to destroy those who resisted the offer of Compliance.

TS Text:

The Thousand Sons were born of capricious fate and have ever walked a precarious path between duty and damnation. The nascent Legion was spared destruction by the discovery of its Primarch, the one-eyed giant Magnus the Red. Only by Magnus' devotion to his newly-found sons, his vast intellect and his mastery of the arcane was the Legion saved.

Of all the Space Marine Legions, the Thousand Sons made the greatest use of those possessed of psychic ability, integrating these warrior-mystics into a labyrinthine command structure so that they, by the application of their powers, could alter the very flow of cause and effect to achieve flawless victories.

[Runefyre]

So we can gather that Tsons won't have widespread use of psychic powers, just your HQ plus some special units I think.

 

I really like the SW's description, it makes them sound much more awesome than the books would have you believe.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Wow, Khârn's insulting description of the Wolves is more accurate now

[betrayer41]

This has me excitedddddd

[Charlo]

If I was theory crafting?

 

Wolves will have an infantry based RoW, maybe universal scout or something.

 

TS will have one with extra Psykers powers and lots of meta shenanigans like reserve manip and re-rolls...

 

At least, that is if those second paragraphs relate to RoW... Which they seem to :o

[Runefyre]

Personally I think it means SW's will have some cool destroyer based infantry formations.

 

 

Wow, Khârn's insulting description of the Wolves is more accurate now

Hm, not sure how this new description is anything but awesome. It portrays them as cunning and tactical hunters, who are nigh-unstoppable when finally engaged in combat.

[Charlo]

Well we do know that the wolves are getting a special destroyer unit ;)

 

...Much to my DG's chagrin :'(

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Personally I think it means SW's will have some cool destroyer based infantry formations.

 

 

 

Wow, Khârn's insulting description of the Wolves is more accurate now

Hm, not sure how this new description is anything but awesome. It portrays them as cunning and tactical hunters, who are nigh-unstoppable when finally engaged in combat.

At the behest of the Imperial Court.

 

"Because we couldn't be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own

desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds.

The World Eaters were not that weapon. We've all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding

blood, and we've all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not

the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can

be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame

with the Butcher's Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls."

"The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name

themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf

doesn't behave that way. Only a dog does."

"That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."

- Eight Captain Khârn,

from his unpublished treatise The Eighteen Legions

[Marshal Loss]

At the risk of sounding pedantic, this is not new text - they're from the posters that have been at WHW for quite a few months now.

 

 

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TRQx2PMNGDY/VmC4T7nvgnI/AAAAAAAAC8w/ChMR7zo2m7w/s1600/WWHH_TSLegion.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oSIfyHKzQ_k/VmC4TqZisXI/AAAAAAAAC8g/PSxRVkld_YM/s1600/WWHH_SWLegion.JPG

 

 

[Charlo]

Well poo.

 

I thought some of it sounded familiar - sorry guys!

[Sandlemad]

That control by the Imperial Court makes the Varangian Guard link clear. Barbarians directly beholden to the throne, (purportedly) apart from the politics and feudalism. In fairness all the other legions are sworn to the Emperor too and not, say, Mars or the Saturnyne Ordos, but having them putting down dissent has thematic resonance.

 

The "tireless pursuers and a peerless hunter-killer force" bit is interesting. Makes me think of deep-void tracking operations with small packs in fast ships harrying enemies trying to hide. Remember the extermination of the Ak'Haireth bone-drinkers in the Alpha Legion background in Extermination? Always seemed weird that the VIth legion had a go at them before the XXth, their styles are so different. That long-range stalking and hunting aspect seems relevant, even if it was the Alphas that eventually did the job. Probably not the sort of thing that would find its way into tabletop rules though,

 

The "near-suicidal disregard for danger" strikes me as similar to Bjorn in Prospero Burns deliberately taking a deep blow to his side from the Amon-daemon for the sake of a return strike. It's another facet of that 'no hesitation' thing.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I guess this is the price to be paid to be the most loyal legion

[Runefyre]

 

Personally I think it means SW's will have some cool destroyer based infantry formations.

 

Wow, Khârn's insulting description of the Wolves is more accurate now

Hm, not sure how this new description is anything but awesome. It portrays them as cunning and tactical hunters, who are nigh-unstoppable when finally engaged in combat.

At the behest of the Imperial Court.

 

"Because we couldn't be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own

desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds.

The World Eaters were not that weapon. We've all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding

blood, and we've all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not

the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can

be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame

with the Butcher's Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls."

"The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name

themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf

doesn't behave that way. Only a dog does."

"That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."

- Eight Captain Khârn,

from his unpublished treatise The Eighteen Legions

 

So Khârn is taking pride in saying he doesn't fight for the good of the Imperium.

 

I fail to see how it is a strike against the SW's to say that they're loyal to the father that created him. And what he fights for is a better galaxy for Humanity.

 

That control by the Imperial Court makes the Varangian Guard link clear. Barbarians directly beholden to the throne, (purportedly) apart from the politics and feudalism. In fairness all the other legions are sworn to the Emperor too and not, say, Mars or the Saturnyne Ordos, but having them putting down dissent has thematic resonance.

 

The "tireless pursuers and a peerless hunter-killer force" bit is interesting. Makes me think of deep-void tracking operations with small packs in fast ships harrying enemies trying to hide. Remember the extermination of the Ak'Haireth bone-drinkers in the Alpha Legion background in Extermination? Always seemed weird that the VIth legion had a go at them before the XXth, their styles are so different. That long-range stalking and hunting aspect seems relevant, even if it was the Alphas that eventually did the job. Probably not the sort of thing that would find its way into tabletop rules though,

 

The "near-suicidal disregard for danger" strikes me as similar to Bjorn in Prospero Burns deliberately taking a deep blow to his side from the Amon-daemon for the sake of a return strike. It's another facet of that 'no hesitation' thing.

I'm liking this portrayal, I just REALLY wish we had better books to back it up. As it stands we're just a bunch of hypocritical underachievers.

[A D-B]

At the risk of... well. What, exactly, is new from even as far back as Prospero Burns, here? I'm not seeing anything new that's triggering these "This changes things!" comments. It's just a summation of what the Wolves have been touted as since they first showed up in the Horus Heresy.

[Runefyre]

I hadn't seen this information before, so it's new to me.

[A D-B]

I hadn't seen this information before, so it's new to me.

 

No, sure, but what's new about it?  What's new in this that wasn't in Prospero Burns? That's what I'm confused about.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I would say because it has never been stated as matter of factly before.

Prospero Burns was focused on a single company and a remembrancer. Russ makes appearances, but it's mostly Kasper and friends

We haven't really seen a lot of the upper echelon of the Wolves (outside your short and the Wolf King, and they are mostly background)

 

I missed the banner when it was released or I forgot the wording of it. (It's a Monday morning after all)

[A D-B]

I would say because it has never been stated as matter of factly before.

 

Ahhhhhh. Got it. Thanks, WLK. Appreciated. 

 

I was genuinely lost for a bit, there.

 

EDIT: This confusion was brought to you by the man that also thought people saw in black and white before he was born, and that Mary Poppins was filmed in the 1910s, not set there, and wasn't sure how Dick van Dyke was still alive.

[Sandlemad]

At the risk of... well. What, exactly, is new from even as far back as Prospero Burns, here? I'm not seeing anything new that's triggering these "This changes things!" comments. It's just a summation of what the Wolves have been touted as since they first showed up in the Horus Heresy.

 

True, it's there in Prospero Burns but here it's the tone. That pseudo-historical account / vaguely Osprey publishing style of Forge World's that folks sometimes take (rightly or wrongly) as more objective than the BL novels. In fairness it's got particular resonance on B&C, what with some of the more popular army blogs taking and nailing that same approach since before the FW books came out. I mean it's cool as heck.

[b1soul]

I hope FW provides a lot more nuance than "Space Wolves are the bestest"

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Nope.

 

That's all their section is going to say.

 

Repeated for 8 or so pages

[Leif Bearclaw]

I hope FW provides a lot more nuance than "Space Wolves are the bestest"

How much nuance are you really expecting form a couple of paragraphs meant to sell the legion in question?

 

Compare and contrast what's said for some of the other Legions:

Iron Hands

 

he Iron Hands were among the most technologically adept and remorseless of the Space Marine Legions. Under their Primarch Ferrus Manus, they were the brutal and unstoppable lords of the engines of war, wielding weapons and armoured tanks with the skill a master swordsman might a blade. Proud and relentless, the Legion fought for many years at the forefront of the Great Crusade, and won victories uncounted, though many labelled them as callous and as inhuman as the machines they employed with such devastating skill.

Tactics

 

The Irons Hands' preference for close range, brutal engagements, where their relentless firepower could be brought to its fullest effect, was exemplified by a tactic that became known as the 'head of the Gorgon'. This was where the enemy would be brought to bale, held in place and allowed to smash itself to pieces against the body of the Legion's forces, while reserve forces of mechanised armour encircled them, before closing in to create a withering crossfire.

 

 

 

Iron Warriors

 

 

 

The Iron Warriors were the grim, cold-hearted masters of the science of war among the Space Marines, the exemplars of strength and discipline turned exclusively to the systematic destruction of an enemy. The Legion was commanded by its Primarch Perturabo as an extension of his own mind and body, the will of each Legionary utterly sublimated to his conception of victory. More so than in any other Legion, the life of each warrior was secondary to his duty, as much a resource to be expended in the relentless calculus of war as bolt shell or lascannon charge.

Tactics

 

Masters of siege warfare and attrition assault tactics, the Iron Warriors favour the use of murderous firepower as their principal agency of war, and are renowned for their use of heavy armour and fortifications, spurning vainglorious ideals of personal combat and valour for the brutal determination to achieve victory by any means necessary. This culminated in tactical formations such as that which became known as the Hammer of Olympia; designed to carry out an unyielding close range attack and shatter the strongest enemy defence line under a weight of armoured warriors and a hurricane of fire.

 

 

 

White Scars:

 

 

 

A bolt of lightning in clear skies, a sudden gale from an unexpected quarter - the White Scars are war's sudden and merciless onslaught. Swift action and a joy for the rush of combat and clash of blades are the hallmarks of their battles, tempered by a quiet and hidden wisdom that few took the time to uncover. The White Scars thrive in the chaotic heart of battle, anticipating its vicissitudes and flowing with them, always to be found where the foe is weakest, where they were least expected, and leaving only cold corpses in their wake.

Tactics

 

White Scar Legionaries are often organised into a fighting unit known as a Chogorian Brotherhood. Composed of a body of Legionaries mounted entirely on fleet warbikes and Scimitar jetbikes, or in other transport vehicles, these formations were ideal for harrying campaigns or lightning strike warfare. When faced with a dug-in foe, some elements of the Brotherhood would dismount to fight on foot, moving to encircle the foe and support their brethren.

 

 

 

Emperor's Children

 

 

 

The Emperor's Children have always striven to be exemplars above all others in the arts of war; paragons of martial virtue and excellence, scorning those who did not meet their own, perhaps unattainable, standards. This led them to seek perfection in war as a fluid, lightning-quick force whose battles were preordained victories bought about by a combination of acute strategic planning and flawless execution. Their attitudes and manner led some to name them as arrogant and vainglorious long before the Horus Heresy, but the Legion's warriors were always ready to answer any such slight with blood.

Tactics

 

To the Emperor's Children, before their fall from grace, war was a matter of perfection incarnated in violence intent and action. The Legion took great pride both in its excellence on any battlefield, and its ability to systematise and replicate any tactic or strategic deployment it needed, and execute them flawlessly on command. Of the innumerable such formations and tactics the Emperor's Children operated, one that found favour with the Legion's Praetors looking to achieve faultless victory - and thereby glory in the eyes of their peers and Primarch - was the Maru Skara.

 

 

 

Don't see what's so different about the SW one, so why assume this is any indication Inferno will be "Space Wolves are the bestest". If anything, there's more of a danger/evidence that the opposite will happen, but that's another argument completely...

[Xenith]

 

This confusion was brought to you by the man that wasn't sure how Dick van Dyke was still alive.

 

 

There is an answer to exactly how he is still alive, and the answer is porpoises.

 

 

So we can gather that Tsons won't have widespread use of psychic powers, just your HQ plus some special units I think.

 

This is how it has always been. Magnus favoured promotion of the psychically talented, so it was unusual for a powerful psychic not to have some form of command. The rank and file were either very (very) low level psykers or had no ability whatsoever. This is why all the people who use Grey Knight rules as Thousand Sons show a fundamental misunderstanding of their background. 

 

I think this may reflect itself in a rule similar to the AL's mutable tactics - you pick a discipline when choosing an army/deploying, and the faction gets a bonus, so Corvydae get to reroll stuff, pyrae get fire shields and flamey bolters, the healing one get fnp etc. to represent powerful psykers weaving enchantments before and during the battle, as well as their turn by turn immolating of stray dogs.

[Dantay VI]

The text bit in the sales blurb is old.

Sounds like Wolves will be drop pod infantry. Good for getting massacred in a game where almost every eeapon is geared to killing marines.

Basically 30k Blackmanes. Destroyers kinda cool if FW redress the points issues with them. I'd see them as a harassing force. Destroyers too weak to be a main unit.

Hoping terminator guard for Russ as mentioned in ATS.

Will they make new destroyer kits?.

Its single piece body kits just now if I recall.

Hopefully get other decent row and not get too boned considering our unuque consul is likely a rune priest (going up against a psyker heavy army).

Hoping for widespread use of storm shields as their use is mentioned a lot, as is passing reference to use of assault cannons in PB.

 

Oh and no need to worry about Bjorn.

He is not worthy enough to get a model or rules in Inferno.

 

Even if some no-mark random librarian who becomes Garro's sidekick is.

[Spinsanity]

I'm not sure I understand why people keep saying the VIth will most likely get a special Runepriest consul; what's so different from a librarian, appart for the name? A Wolfpriest, on the other hand, being part chaplain, part apoth/primus would make far more sense in my opinion...