Praetorian of Dorn (spoilers)

[Mazryonh]

I'd like to get this novel, and I've read through some of the spoilers, but before I do, does the novel make some nods to gameplay mechanics?  

 

I think that there should have been at least some descriptions of Rogal Dorn letting loose with his Custodes bolter, but his shots completely fail to harm Alpharius and his Terminator bodyguards (since the bolter's shots are AP4 with Rending in the game), while Alpharius' own Plasma Blaster leaves smoking pockmarks in Dorn's golden armour (representing how the plasma bolts are barely stopped by Dorn's invulnerable save). I don't mind more spoilers. 

 

Given what happens in the end, I hope other authors include the following tidbit the next time any Imperial Fists who were at the climactic battle meet up with Alpha Legionnaires. 

 

Alpha Legionnaires: I am Alpharius! I am Alpharius!

 

Rogal Dorn: Are you headless corpses? Come forth and join your traitorous gene-father in death!

 

There's also the question of whether the climactic battle is "calling forward" some previous fluff. 

 

According to the spoilers posted in this thread, Rogal Dorn cuts off Alpharius' hands before splitting the latter's head open.  This could be a call-forward to how in older fluff each Chapter Master of the Imperial Fists engraves his name onto the bones of Rogal Dorn's hand, the only thing left to them of their Primarch's body, implying that Dorn suffered similar amputations before disappearing.  

 

The question is, who "returns the favour" to Dorn?  Omegon has every reason to avenge his twin brother's death, but it's clear that he is having second thoughts about all this "betrayal" business, and it's implied that he eventually returned to his Father's service by becoming the Grandmaster of the Grey Knights by M32 (in the Beast Arises novel series) under the name of "Janus."  

 

Who else might have that big a reason to make Dorn suffer before killing him?  Perturabo most certainly does, but by then he's a Daemon Prince, and assuming Perturabo still has and uses the Forgebreaker hammer, he likely can't perform clean amputations on Dorn in battle.  

 

Maybe we'll see another HH book where Omegon shows up before Dorn in Alpharius' armour, says "I am Alpharius" and then takes off his helmet to make Dorn hesitate at the sight of someone sharing the exact same face, skills, and Primarch's stature as the Alpharius that Dorn killed before duelling Dorn, before proceeding to cut off at least one of Dorn's hands and then kidnapping Dorn for "his future part to play"?

 

I'm also beginning to think that the condition of Alpharius after the duel was intentional to make older fluff still work. 

 

It could be possible for the Alpha Legion's apothecaries to keep Alpharius' body alive, even though his brain is unsalvageable, allowing any Alpha Legionnaire to drink Alpharius' blood and thereby impersonate Alpharius.  This means that Guilliman could face down an "Alpharius" somewhere else, something that older fluff mentioned.  It could also allow Omegon to "supercharge" himself by effectively putting both twins' minds in one body, allowing Omegon to win a hypothetical duel with Dorn.

 

In any case, the ending is something I've got one more question about. 

 

Does the book plausibly explain how and why Alpharius committed a critical error, enough to cost him his life?  We're talking about someone who is vastly and deviously intelligent, coupled with a very meticulous nature.  This makes sense if you remember how the Emperor needed Alpharius to be his chief of Black Ops (why else would Alpharius use false flags and infiltrating troops so often?). Does the book explain why Alpharius didn't resort to something else after the Phalanx arrived in orbit around Hydra station? Alpharius could have just cut his losses, teleport back to the Alpha, and blow up the station with a big enough bomb. Instead, he stuck around and lost his head for it. You can't personally carry out your schemes if you're dead.

[Withershadow]

Book doesn't. My theory is that he was deranged. Residual Slaught programming + Cabal future vision = KERBLAH!~

[mc warhammer]

 

 

The analogy doesn't work. There are older texts you do have access to but dismiss, and more modern ones you don't have access to but dismiss when hearing them from others, despite the weight of evidence. You asked for quotes and sources, this was provided by Legatus and myself, and duly dismissed. A little frustrating. I'm sorry you can't get your hands on these materials though, I hope you do one day - not out of a childish desire to make you see my way, but simply because (as you're obviously an AL fan) you get the opportunity to see the complete picture. But we're obviously not going to agree given the different platforms we're talking from so it's best to leave it there. I've dropped you a PM.

 

i'm a little confused by this. i'm not here to win a discussion, just put forward a point of view. i was just expanding on your "we're saying the same thing" line. i thought we'd both gotten to the point where we accepted each other's, but i seem to be wrong.

 

let me try to explain my analogy better: you have much more to go on than i do about alpharius, which puts you at an advantage. i was attempting (and failing) to show how i came to my current head canon. don't take the word "dismiss" to heart. i'm not dismissing the validity of what you or anyone else is saying in the grander scheme of things, only that it doesn't have any impact on the image of alpharius in my head. if alpharius were a bloke we both know and you warned me about him, i would have my eyes open, but until i had a negative experience with his pride myself, my feelings towards him remain the same.

 

as i've said a few times now, i'm the outlier here. i'm the odd one out in my interpretation. i don't know how to make that any clearer, sorry.

 

and here i was thinking analogies make things easier ha.

 

oh, and btw i'm not a AL fan, just to be clear. i don't have favourite factions.

 

 

I struck the wrong tone. I meant no insult, nor do I care about winning or losing, and I accept your view in light of what you've said. I still don't like or agree with your approach (the approach being separate here from the conclusion you've reached), but while I was mulling it over on a drive into UQ in between posts to pick up an unrelated book, I've reached the conclusion that I'm just not used to talking to somebody who doesn't share the same holistic philosophy. I feel like I was blissfully unaware that there were people who didn't have anything to do with the tabletop, and the decades of background that surround it. This is the AoD rather than the BL forum though, but my apologies for the terse post. I will say though that this

 

 

you definitely weren't insulting. it's the internet, and sometimes i come across more blunt than i realise. i'm genuinely interested in everyone's input here as long as it's sincere. i learn a lot from you guys.

 

and i don't need anyone to like or agree with my pov, i'm satisfied if they can at least understand how i arrived at it. intellectually, i get that pride is one of the hallmarks of the alpha legion even if i don't understand it on an emotional level.

 

i'd probably score lower than anyone here on an alpha legion exam, but i'd hope to at least plead one hell of a case as i flunk.

 

 

is something I find bizarre but admirable. I can't imagine not having my favourite toy space soldiers to cheer on.

 

i totally get that. i think that's the reason i use it as a disclaimer so often...i know that there's a culture around 40k that i'm not a part of and i respect that and hope that it goes some way to explaining my unusual views. i think it also says a lot for the quality and success of the horus heresy novels (which in turn got me to read some 40k novels too) that they can reach people like me and inspire them to jump on a message board.

[Legatus]

This is how the Alpha Legion's attitude/character was described in 'HH3: Extermination':

 

"Although its history as an active Legion was a short one compared to many - at least under its own name - it proved quickly determined to match any of its brothers in glory - or perhaps more accurately prove itself superior to them - and its tally of victories mounted with surpassing speed. The Alpha Legion, ever watchful, was far from averse from studying the strengths of their fellow Legions, and their weaknesses, and adapting the weapons and tactics of the other Legiones Astartes to their own ends*. In this the Legion was not so different to the strategic observances of the Ultramarines Chapter and their master, although it is doubtful that the Lords of Ultramar would have cared much for the comparison, even before the two Legions later came to bitter bloodshed. Such zealousness to prove themselves as part of the Great Crusade at any cost, and the often over-elaborate and needlessly complex and malign way in which the Alpha Legion chose to wage war saw them quickly gain infamy more than fame. This, coupled with growing distrust due to their insular and deceptive nature, brought rivalry and acrimony between the Alpha Legion and much of the rest of the Legiones Astartes.

As time passed, the relationship between the Alpha Legion and its peers soured further.

(...)

In the final years before the outbreak of the Horus Heresy, there is fragmentary evidence to indicate that even Horus was beginning to doubt his grip on the Alpha Legion, and doubt also the veracity of his own knowledge about the XXth, its goals and who it truly served. Secret reports prepared for both the Warmaster and the Imperial Court on Terra during this period show a growing unease about the Alpha Legion, some implying that it was increasingly beyond the Imperium's ability to measure or to control. Furthermore, that perhaps some obsession or madness was taking hold of the Legion's psyche in the way it operated and made war. It has been suggested that the Alpha Legion had begun to seek out battles to fight for the challenge they offered, rather than to suit the needs of the Great Crusade, orchestrating ever more apocalyptic displays of their arcane and malevolent methods of war, even when mere conventional assault would have proved more efficient and expedient.

In time the accusation had started to become such common currency among the Terran Court and many Imperial commanders that the Alpha Legion had now become seemingly addicted to bringing low civilications by anarchy, fire and blood that might have been brought into Compliance readily through negotiation or a limited display of force, rather than be turned into strife-torn ruins as a test of the Alpha Legion's skills. Worse, it was alleged that this need to orchestrate the elaborate destruction of their foes was no mere affection but a pathological flaw, and one that was only worsening as the Great Crusade Progressed."

- HH3: Extermination, p. 84+85

 

 

All i all very similar in attitude to how they had been described in the earlier lore.

 

 

*It seems Guilliman's mistake was to openly offer his doctrines to Alpharius. He should have just let a copy of his WIP Codex "lying around", and Alpharius would have gleefully snatched it up and studied it extensively.

[slitth]

I would only take the information HH3: Extermination as an outside view of the Alpha Legion.

As it describes the Primarch as one person and not the twins.

 

So like anything about the Alpha Legion it should not be taken at face value.

 

If stories I have read, it only in Praetorian of Dorn and the Harrowing that let us a glimpse of what is inside the head of someone from the Alpha Legion.

Everything else is from another perspective.

With is good because if we get to see too much for the Alpha Legion perspective then we will not the plot, than guessing the real plot is the fun of reading a story with the Alpha Legion

[Mazryonh]

This is how the Alpha Legion's attitude/character was described in 'HH3: Extermination':

 

Is it just me, or does that description make them sound a bit like superhuman James Bond clones, since their plans are crazy and inefficient but always successfully carried out?  Up until Praetorian of Dorn, Alpharius was "so smart" and his operatives almost perfect. The AL operatives seem to never blow their covers, never start to question the reasoning behind their orders or objectives (with the exception of Omegon), and their orders are never miscommunicated or misunderstood (even if they're sent to places that should be incommunicado, like how the Alpha Legion cell tried to assassinate Guiliman in Imperium Secundus which was trapped in the Ruinstorm).  That sounds to me like they're an inhuman hivemind that is always perfectly networked and co-operative.  If they made mistakes in their command and control, or at least had to have their cells be shepherded around by someone carrying Alpharius' blood (which carries with it Alpharius' mind) it would serve to humanize them more and make them more plausible. 

 

I know the description is supposed to give some fluff justification for the "Martial Hubris" drawback that FW gave the Alpha Legion, but it isn't even much of a drawback, and the very similar "Covenant of Death" drawback given to the Dark Angels is actually worse most of the time.  What gives? 

[mc warhammer]

This is how the Alpha Legion's attitude/character was described in 'HH3: Extermination':

 

"Although its history as an active Legion was a short one compared to many - at least under its own name - it proved quickly determined to match any of its brothers in glory - or perhaps more accurately prove itself superior to them - and its tally of victories mounted with surpassing speed. The Alpha Legion, ever watchful, was far from averse from studying the strengths of their fellow Legions, and their weaknesses, and adapting the weapons and tactics of the other Legiones Astartes to their own ends*. In this the Legion was not so different to the strategic observances of the Ultramarines Chapter and their master, although it is doubtful that the Lords of Ultramar would have cared much for the comparison, even before the two Legions later came to bitter bloodshed. Such zealousness to prove themselves as part of the Great Crusade at any cost, and the often over-elaborate and needlessly complex and malign way in which the Alpha Legion chose to wage war saw them quickly gain infamy more than fame. This, coupled with growing distrust due to their insular and deceptive nature, brought rivalry and acrimony between the Alpha Legion and much of the rest of the Legiones Astartes.

As time passed, the relationship between the Alpha Legion and its peers soured further.

(...)

In the final years before the outbreak of the Horus Heresy, there is fragmentary evidence to indicate that even Horus was beginning to doubt his grip on the Alpha Legion, and doubt also the veracity of his own knowledge about the XXth, its goals and who it truly served. Secret reports prepared for both the Warmaster and the Imperial Court on Terra during this period show a growing unease about the Alpha Legion, some implying that it was increasingly beyond the Imperium's ability to measure or to control. Furthermore, that perhaps some obsession or madness was taking hold of the Legion's psyche in the way it operated and made war. It has been suggested that the Alpha Legion had begun to seek out battles to fight for the challenge they offered, rather than to suit the needs of the Great Crusade, orchestrating ever more apocalyptic displays of their arcane and malevolent methods of war, even when mere conventional assault would have proved more efficient and expedient.

In time the accusation had started to become such common currency among the Terran Court and many Imperial commanders that the Alpha Legion had now become seemingly addicted to bringing low civilications by anarchy, fire and blood that might have been brought into Compliance readily through negotiation or a limited display of force, rather than be turned into strife-torn ruins as a test of the Alpha Legion's skills. Worse, it was alleged that this need to orchestrate the elaborate destruction of their foes was no mere affection but a pathological flaw, and one that was only worsening as the Great Crusade Progressed."

- HH3: Extermination, p. 84+85

 

 

All i all very similar in attitude to how they had been described in the earlier lore.

 

 

*It seems Guilliman's mistake was to openly offer his doctrines to Alpharius. He should have just let a copy of his WIP Codex "lying around", and Alpharius would have gleefully snatched it up and studied it extensively.

 

 

thanks for posting that legatus, a great read. going off slitth's response, it still works with the way i originally squared the AL IA article with "Legion" in my head. there's the imperium's idea of the alpha legion and then there's the alpha legion's inner truth. it's a view which is still supportable through PoD ( essentially dorn's opinion of the AL becomes the official stance on the matter for the imperium).

 

i'm also partial to that interpretation because it gets rid of the (imo) ridiculous youngest sibling syndrome. the last legion numerically is the last found and so is "the youngest"? that's...convenient slash obvious.

[mc warhammer]

 

This is how the Alpha Legion's attitude/character was described in 'HH3: Extermination':

 

Is it just me, or does that description make them sound a bit like superhuman James Bond clones, since their plans are crazy and inefficient but always successfully carried out?  Up until Praetorian of Dorn, Alpharius was "so smart" and his operatives almost perfect. The AL operatives seem to never blow their covers, never start to question the reasoning behind their orders or objectives (with the exception of Omegon), and their orders are never miscommunicated or misunderstood (even if they're sent to places that should be incommunicado, like how the Alpha Legion cell tried to assassinate Guiliman in Imperium Secundus which was trapped in the Ruinstorm).  That sounds to me like they're an inhuman hivemind that is always perfectly networked and co-operative.  If they made mistakes in their command and control, or at least had to have their cells be shepherded around by someone carrying Alpharius' blood (which carries with it Alpharius' mind) it would serve to humanize them more and make them more plausible. 

 

I know the description is supposed to give some fluff justification for the "Martial Hubris" drawback that FW gave the Alpha Legion, but it isn't even much of a drawback, and the very similar "Covenant of Death" drawback given to the Dark Angels is actually worse most of the time.  What gives? 

 

 

i think the take works insofar as the idea that transhumans with their innate ability coupled with highly disciplined training will be able to pull off this sort of warfare at a...well, transhuman level. but, coming up against other transhumans (the fists) means that their success rate will eventually drop.

[slitth]

 

This is how the Alpha Legion's attitude/character was described in 'HH3: Extermination':

 

Is it just me, or does that description make them sound a bit like superhuman James Bond clones, since their plans are crazy and inefficient but always successfully carried out?  Up until Praetorian of Dorn, Alpharius was "so smart" and his operatives almost perfect. The AL operatives seem to never blow their covers, never start to question the reasoning behind their orders or objectives (with the exception of Omegon), and their orders are never miscommunicated or misunderstood (even if they're sent to places that should be incommunicado, like how the Alpha Legion cell tried to assassinate Guiliman in Imperium Secundus which was trapped in the Ruinstorm).  That sounds to me like they're an inhuman hivemind that is always perfectly networked and co-operative.  If they made mistakes in their command and control, or at least had to have their cells be shepherded around by someone carrying Alpharius' blood (which carries with it Alpharius' mind) it would serve to humanize them more and make them more plausible. 

 

I know the description is supposed to give some fluff justification for the "Martial Hubris" drawback that FW gave the Alpha Legion, but it isn't even much of a drawback, and the very similar "Covenant of Death" drawback given to the Dark Angels is actually worse most of the time.  What gives? 

 

 

They seem too good to be true because we often see them at the best. On the initiative.

 

The Alpha Legion is a legion that thrives on control.

The control information by gather knowledge about other and give nothing in return

The have control of the agent, and an agent of the Legion are more likely to die that their hands than the enemy.

They control the flow of battle and only chose to attack when they have the initiative.

And they have so good discipline that they are not thrown in to disorder by the loss of a superior.

 

But if you take the control and initiative from them and they are not that perfect.

Look a the battle for Mon Lo Harbour, they lost the initiative and where days away from a crushing blow.

And the Tenebrae installation was lost to a smaller force that was posted there.

 

To defeat the Alpha Legion you need to attack them on them on your terms.

Give them a chance to disengage or to take the initiative and you are in trouble.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

To me they have no redeeming values and often prey upon each other. There is a short story about them that shows this quite well. I can understand why an AL fan would want to deny it but it's there in black and white.

[mc warhammer]

To me they have no redeeming values and often prey upon each other. There is a short story about them that shows this quite well. I can understand why an AL fan would want to deny it but it's there in black and white.

that last bit is true enough, but being in print is no guarantee people will read it objectively

[slitth]

To me they have no redeeming values and often prey upon each other. There is a short story about them that shows this quite well. I can understand why an AL fan would want to deny it but it's there in black and white.

 

It would help to know what short story you are referring to. Or at least when the story took place.

Yes, They will kill one another if it necessary for the mission. That their pragmatic nature.

 

But I haven't read about them preying on each other.

It there is a group of 10 people and you know that 75% chance that one of those people will kill 1.000 before sundown tomorrow.

If you do not have the time to figure out with one, then the pragmatic solution would be to kill all 10.

But we do not like the pragmatic solution because that is unjust and we are afraid to be one on the 10 that is sacrificed to protect the 1.000.

 

So no they do not have a humanitarian redeeming values, because they are made to be agent that kill and die when they are told to.

0% freedom and 100% obedience. That not something that easy to like or accept.

[Legatus]

I vaguely remember haring about a story where a group of raven guard infiltrate some place and get into a fight with some Alpha Legion, but then it turns out the Raven Guard themselves were actually disguised Alpha Legion. Or something like that. The story led some to believe that there would come a conflict between Alpharius and Omegon and a schism within the Alpha Legion. I don't remember the name or any details.

[IronDrake28]

I vaguely remember haring about a story where a group of raven guard infiltrate some place and get into a fight with some Alpha Legion, but then it turns out the Raven Guard themselves were actually disguised Alpha Legion. Or something like that. The story led some to believe that there would come a conflict between Alpharius and Omegon and a schism within the Alpha Legion. I don't remember the name or any details.

You're thinking of The Seventh Serpent, where Iron Hands are fighting Alpha Legion, how then find out th Alpha Legion are fighting the Alpha Legion, and some of the Iron Hands turn out to be Alpharius and co. I had to read it twice to figure it all out. XD

[Karhedron]

In any case, the ending is something I've got one more question about. 

 

Does the book plausibly explain how and why Alpharius committed a critical error, enough to cost him his life?  We're talking about someone who is vastly and deviously intelligent, coupled with a very meticulous nature.  This makes sense if you remember how the Emperor needed Alpharius to be his chief of Black Ops (why else would Alpharius use false flags and infiltrating troops so often?). Does the book explain why Alpharius didn't resort to something else after the Phalanx arrived in orbit around Hydra station? Alpharius could have just cut his losses, teleport back to the Alpha, and blow up the station with a big enough bomb. Instead, he stuck around and lost his head for it. You can't personally carry out your schemes if you're dead.

 

No explanation is given....

 

... because we don't know what Alpharius was intending to achieve. We don't know whose side Alpharius and Omegon are on at this point and what their game plan is. For all we know, Alpharius dying could have been "all part of the plan".

 

For me, this is the only disappointing feature of an otehrwise very good book. With Alpharius dead, it is much less likely that we will ever find out just what the heck the twins are/were playing at. It is fine for the in-universe characters to be blind to the AL's true goals but as readers invested in the characters, we need at least some pay back on all the theories and counter-theories that have been going on.

 

On the face of it, the AL fail hard in this book. While initially successful, they ultimately just cause some non-critical damage before losing their Primarch, getting their fleet mauled by the Phalanx and then disappearing off into the Warp. I wouldn't mind if there was the some payoff for all of this down the road but the death of Alpharius make that a lot less likely. We are no closer to understanding whose team they are really playing for.

[TheAlephNull]

You know, I gotta give Andy Clark credit. Shroud of Night does not directly answer any of the questions posed by Praetorian of Dorn, but damn, does it make the Legionaries themselves much more lovable. There are some redeeming qualities in there. 

[Pavement Artist]

 

In any case, the ending is something I've got one more question about. 

 

Does the book plausibly explain how and why Alpharius committed a critical error, enough to cost him his life?  We're talking about someone who is vastly and deviously intelligent, coupled with a very meticulous nature.  This makes sense if you remember how the Emperor needed Alpharius to be his chief of Black Ops (why else would Alpharius use false flags and infiltrating troops so often?). Does the book explain why Alpharius didn't resort to something else after the Phalanx arrived in orbit around Hydra station? Alpharius could have just cut his losses, teleport back to the Alpha, and blow up the station with a big enough bomb. Instead, he stuck around and lost his head for it. You can't personally carry out your schemes if you're dead.

 

No explanation is given....

 

... because we don't know what Alpharius was intending to achieve. We don't know whose side Alpharius and Omegon are on at this point and what their game plan is. For all we know, Alpharius dying could have been "all part of the plan".

 

For me, this is the only disappointing feature of an otehrwise very good book. With Alpharius dead, it is much less likely that we will ever find out just what the heck the twins are/were playing at. It is fine for the in-universe characters to be blind to the AL's true goals but as readers invested in the characters, we need at least some pay back on all the theories and counter-theories that have been going on.

 

On the face of it, the AL fail hard in this book. While initially successful, they ultimately just cause some non-critical damage before losing their Primarch, getting their fleet mauled by the Phalanx and then disappearing off into the Warp. I wouldn't mind if there was the some payoff for all of this down the road but the death of Alpharius make that a lot less likely. We are no closer to understanding whose team they are really playing for.

 

 

I thought it was heavily implied that Alpharius lured Dorn there in order to give him the Cabal pitch. The whole operation on Terra was meant as a demonstration of how ineffectual Dorn's defences were and to place the primarch in a position of vulnerability so he would hear Alpharius out. Alpharius' downfall was his arrogance. Much like the arrogance that drives the XXth legion to creating needlessly convoluted battleplans and labyrinthine schemes of espionage, Alpharius believed he understood Rogal and felt he could move the playing pieces in such a way that would render his brother helpless and open to what Alpharius had to say. I love the Alpha legion, have done for many many years, but by God am i happy this book happened. As surprised as i was when Alpharius copped it, the legion really needed to lose, if only to give them some bloody depth back. I adore the idea of Dorn as the no bull:cuss counter to Alpharius.

[Withershadow]

I thought his downfall was having his last perfect kill strike disrupted, giving Dorn a momentary advantage, which is all it takes for the tide to turn.  A lot of Primarch battles are decided by third-party intervention (Russ vs Angron, Kurze vs. Lion, et al).

 

I also still think Omegon had something to do with it, because he wasn't particularly upset at the end of the book, Alpharius seemed really deranged (Xenos trickery?), and Omegon had previously been working against the Cabal (tossing out their communication device out of an airlock, allowing their agent to commit suicide, destroying the station they gifted Alpharius, etc.).

 

What's more interesting is to discuss which twin bought the Cabal narrative.  One twin was mind :cuss by those Xenos to basically be a agent of chaos (lower case 'c') and destruction, was rescued by the Emperor, and put in charge of black ops.  The other was basically a space pirate guy who hung out with Horus and was prudent enough not to let the location of his star empire be revealed to the Imperium.  The first twin is likely the one responsible for the Alpha Legion slowly involving themselves in more crazy and convoluted plans for the sake of crazy and convoluted plans, is he also the one who bought the Cabal's pitch because it gave him an excuse to apply his skillset to the greatest target of them all?

[b1soul]

The Alpha Legion are good...when they're not giving moustache-twirling speeches or killing each other. 

[Withershadow]

Killing each other is a symptom of the schism in the Legion, something could be said of the Dark Angels and others.  As far as moustache-twirling, where do they actually do this?  Even in Praetorian of Dorn, Alpharius is not so much twirling his moustache as maniacally ranting.

[rendingon1+]

Last "battle"  between Dorn and Alpharius ws nothing more than a cheap IF fanservice (for me). No offense to any IF fans of course - I blame French. Fists didn't get anything longer than Crimson Fists before Preatorian was released, with Dorn being the only primarch with no kills. So with this book he not only outsmarts Alpha ("your unpredictability makes you predictable hurr durr") but he also kills him in a very gory way.

 

Except for the ending the book is great, AL being AL, Fists being Fists but the ending makes no sense. Seriously I ain't buying that Alpharius was really thinking he could turn/manipulate Dorn. If that was the message... uber lame. Other explenation is that Alpharius was tired of living and he deviced this super complicated plan to commit suicide.

[Heliomanes]

Agreed. The ending smacked of desperation from the author and didn't fit well with the setting. He dumps all over the "unreliable narrator" bit that we all know and love by talking about how Omegon "suddenly knew" that he was alone, which also puts a wrench into the whole "but what REALLY happened?" thing that has always been a big part of the fan speculation around the Alpha Legion stories. And by making Alpharius into a dunce who wants to twirl his moustache and fight one on one with other primarchs, he just turns him into a less efficient, coherent and interesting version of the other brawler/duelist primarchs. Tons of character and depth lost in a hamfisted attempt to "make something happen". By all means, kill the big characters, but do so in a way that moves the story forwards and draws us into the setting instead of robbing it of intrigue, character and complexity.

[rendingon1+]

Well said.

[Withershadow]

I am guessing it makes some sort of hamfisted sense if we again see Alpharius as basically a deranged cultist of the cabal. The plan was to lure Dorn to do the investigating and breadcrum following to end up at the station alone, rather than sending his Huskarl in his stead. Then he kills Dorn, and takes over the outer defense layer, so when Horus shows up, the first line of defense instead turns against Terra, allowing Horus' forces to steamroll through the defenses.

 

He was certainly convinced he could kill Dorn, he drew first blood after all, and each strike was deadlier than the last, and if we give any credit to the main character of the book, that last strike he interfered with would have ended the fight. The whole "I will give you victory, brother!' Jive also makes sense from the perspective of a Cabal-tool, since in this case ultimate victory is Horus' triumph over the Emperor and the subsequent extinction of humanity and thus the Primordial Four.

 

Still, there definitely was a lot of Dorn-fapping from the author, starting much earlier with the book about him knowing Alpharius' tricks before they even came through the door (although he glared at the wrong doppelgänger the whole time), or the Phalanx Deus Machina Sling-shot (why didn't the Imperium just build like 10 of those and auto-win everything?), or the over-the-top gruesome finale to the fight. But hey, at least we got a spare and didn't spend the next 10,000 years after the Siege constantly getting nearly wiped out and being rescued. :P

[slitth]

I am guessing it makes some sort of hamfisted sense if we again see Alpharius as basically a deranged cultist of the cabal. The plan was to lure Dorn to do the investigating and breadcrum following to end up at the station alone, rather than sending his Huskarl in his stead. Then he kills Dorn, and takes over the outer defense layer, so when Horus shows up, the first line of defense instead turns against Terra, allowing Horus' forces to steamroll through the defenses.

 

He was certainly convinced he could kill Dorn, he drew first blood after all, and each strike was deadlier than the last, and if we give any credit to the main character of the book, that last strike he interfered with would have ended the fight. The whole "I will give you victory, brother!' Jive also makes sense from the perspective of a Cabal-tool, since in this case ultimate victory is Horus' triumph over the Emperor and the subsequent extinction of humanity and thus the Primordial Four.

 

Still, there definitely was a lot of Dorn-fapping from the author, starting much earlier with the book about him knowing Alpharius' tricks before they even came through the door (although he glared at the wrong doppelgänger the whole time), or the Phalanx Deus Machina Sling-shot (why didn't the Imperium just build like 10 of those and auto-win everything?), or the over-the-top gruesome finale to the fight. But hey, at least we got a spare and didn't spend the next 10,000 years after the Siege constantly getting nearly wiped out and being rescued.

 

I do not think that Alpharius is working towards the Cabals vision of victory.

 

I think they are working towards the cruel future that we see in 40K.

 

I think this because that fits the nature we are shown in Legion.

 

- They believe in the utopian dream, but know that is cannot be fulfilled, their job is a endless duty.

So the Cabal utopian goal of permanently defeating chaos would not be a plan that they would believe in.

It more in they nature to go with the long suffer of mankind to ensure their survival.

 

- They will do a lot to get the enemy in the a position where their death is certain.

I think that they know that they would not be able to defeat Horus in a war.

They are forced to bring Horse to the one place where he can be killed.

I would not be surprised if we see an Alpha legion agent responsible for disabling the shields of the Vengeful Spirit.

 

I think that Alpharius did not want Dorn dead, but on top of his game.

After all, he knows that Dorn would see though the reason of the attack and rework his defences to something even better.