Praetorian of Dorn (spoilers)

[DuskRaider]

Actually, I believe the whole incident on Eskrador is contested even by the Ultramarines themselves, and the "Inquisitor" who penned the account was found to be an Alpha Legion operative.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That is what they want you to believe...

[Lurking Hydra]

I can honestly say I've never been this angry over a fictional event before. The worst of the nerd rage has subsided since Saturday and now I'm primarily just bitter. Kudos to the HH team for telling such powerful stories, even if I don't want to hear some of them.

[Arkangilos]

I just can't wait for Dorn to see Alpharius (Omegon) alive after having personally killed him (Alpharius), since no one knows about them being twins.

[Lurking Hydra]

I just can't wait for Dorn to see Alpharius (Omegon) alive after having personally killed him (Alpharius), since no one knows about them being twins.

That will be interesting for sure.

[MikhalLeNoir]

 

 

Oh didn't forsee that end.

So there will be never a Omegon=Janus storyline? I mean now that his brother is dead, how can he betray him?

 

Maybe setting up the whole thing and somehow getting Alpharius to personally take part and hunt down Dorn and risk/bet on him dying was part of the plan?

 

 

 

Possibly. But if that's the case why the reaction at the end? Unless that's the one thing Omegon didn't take into his plans?

 

 

So he was surprised that he had actual feelings for his brother or a connection?

[ak1508]

I am hoping this could somehow set up the plot behind dorn's dissapearance. Like, we start liking his character more and almost forget about his duel with alph, only to then have another hydra head come back and bite him in the ass. Would make for a cool vengeance actually, with the whole mystery behind how and why dorn vanished imho

[Brofist]

I hope each loyalist Primarch kills Alpharius at least once

[Emperor's Furor]

 

+ ZEAL INTENSIFIES +

 

http://i.imgur.com/yMUS6mS.jpg

 

Needs a speech bubble saying "Fire"

[DarkProdigy]

Wasn't the only thing found of Dorn's when he disappeared his hands?

 

would be some poetic revenge for Omegon to years later take the hands off the guy who did that to his brother, there's definite foreshadowing in the way alphy died methinks.

[Terminus]

I can honestly say I've never been this angry over a fictional event before. The worst of the nerd rage has subsided since Saturday and now I'm primarily just bitter. Kudos to the HH team for telling such powerful stories, even if I don't want to hear some of them.

Me too. Not because Apharius was killed by my least favorite Primarch, but because it implies the Alphas actually bought into the nonsense of the Cabal. So I can't even be mad at Dorn, and I'd probably be stone faced as I decapitated that blue green idiot as well. So in a way the book made me mad but I'm glad Alpharius is dead. Omegon at least was smart enough to toss the Cabal communicator out of an airlock.

[AfroCampbell]

 

I can honestly say I've never been this angry over a fictional event before. The worst of the nerd rage has subsided since Saturday and now I'm primarily just bitter. Kudos to the HH team for telling such powerful stories, even if I don't want to hear some of them.

Me too. Not because Apharius was killed by my least favorite Primarch, but because it implies the Alphas actually bought into the nonsense of the Cabal. So I can't even be mad at Dorn, and I'd probably be stone faced as I decapitated that blue green idiot as well. So in a way the book made me mad but I'm glad Alpharius is dead. Omegon at least was smart enough to toss the Cabal communicator out of an airlock.

 

 

How do you know what the Cabal said was a lie ..... at least one of the futures they foretold was true ;)

[Terminus]

I didn't say it was a lie, I said it was nonsense. They basically told Alpharius, "Kill yourself and all your friends to make the world a better place." And Alpharius was like, "totes foh sho!"  What a clown.

 

Basically it leaves Lorgar as the only Primarch with a clue.  Horus got the message but missed the point, focusing on material conflict even after his own sojourn into the Warp.  Humanity can never conquer Chaos that is an intrinsic part of them, unless they embrace it and complete the circle of becoming one with their creation.  Alpharius was given the choice between dystopia and extinction, and opted for the latter.  Lorgar found the third answer of apotheosis and was even happy to share it with his brothers.  It's just his Legion was similarly small-minded and followed Erebus' example rather than the First Pilgrims, so he's locked himself up in embarrassment for the last 10,000 years.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I hope each loyalist Primarch kills Alpharius at least once

Oh heck yeah he is such a you know what...

 

:D

[Kol Saresk]

I just can't wait for Dorn to see Alpharius (Omegon) alive after having personally killed him (Alpharius), since no one knows about them being twins.

Or the fact that it's a whole Legion of Dread Pirate Rogers who pledge themselves to serving as specific identities to keep those identities alive at all costs.

 

Okay, so here's what I'm not understanding as someone just reading the spoilers.

If I understand correctly, the big reveal is that Alpharius was pretending to be someone else in a reverse fashion of Sheed Ranko in Serpent Beneath.

 

So how long was Alpharius doing this? Was it solely within the confines of the novel, or is going to be there was another "Alpharius" out there leading the Legion and Omegon is going to have to deal with him?

 

Although this does present the idea that the reason the Alpha Legion splintered so completely and totally was all of these various "Dread Pirate Alphariuses" all thought they were the real thing, which would have eventually caused major schisms within the Legion as they each tried to take control.

 

It also presents the idea that all of the other "not Alpharius" AL characters are either Dread Pirate Rogers for separate identities or Legionnaires who got tired of the whole thing and just decided to put themselves out there.

[Lord Blackwood]

So I  finished the novel last night , then took  some time to reflect on it before posting my thoughts which will be below the spoiler tag. 

I will say that I found the book started slow , picked up , slowed down ,  then sprinted toward the finish and while normally I would consider that a bad thing  the tone of the novel and the concepts being explored actually made such a thing make a lot of sense. 

By and large the depiction of Dorn is similar to what we have been seeing ( I.E.  not the best )  But there are several redeeming qualities that we get to see here that make me a bit more pleased. 

Dorn effectively tells Alpharius " Look , I know who you are , I know what you  do. " 

There are a couple of situations where this is the case ,  a compliance where Dorn effectively Tells Alpharius how to Alpharius more efficiently. Its actually a pretty interesting exchange between the two of them because it shows both the quality of Dorns Stubbourness  and the fact that its a conscious choice to do things the way he does them.  He basically looks Alpharius in the eye and says  "I know you."  " Im not you because I choose not to be you."

This is hammered home quite well  when Alpharius says something like " Would it have been better if they died in  open battle?"  And  Dorn pretty much turns around and tells him  "Yea , that would have been better" 

This isint up there with Curze and his interactions with his brothers but its a solid showcase that Dorn is really a thinker and his duty to ensure compliance is important to him , the idea of making the world possible to effectively integrate post compliance action is important. 

Dorn comes across like a dick  of course ,but I think thats the point , hes supposed to have that sort of blunt straight forward edge to him.  

Largely the book explores this concept that the Imperial Fists are Blunt straight forward tools that get a job done by the application of the most direct method possible. 

BUT   this leads me to my main complaint , Which is my complaint about the Imperial Fists depiction in  the HH  thus far. 

The character introduced  in this novel , who is dead by the end of it  in my opinion completely steals the show , he is the main Imperial fist Character we follow around , he is the one who saves Dorn's life and lets him kill Alpharius , we get a look into the legion culture and what its like to become an imperial fist.  This guy is one of Dorn's Huscarls  and his Praetorian he is a very interesting and deep character.   With Sigismund and Fafnir Raan  doing  border patrol duty  and only just barely being in the book ( save for a pretty sweet boarding action )  and Pollux relegated to standing around in a Flashback.  This guy  Steals the show has a complete character arc and goes out like a boss.  His apprentice who takes his name after he passes away  needed a little bit more polish but was still okay and important.  Andromeda is a fantastic character that  i feel could be explored more , There is some really interesting stuff attached to her. 

This ALWAYS happens with the Imperial Fists as their supporting cast are just , so much more interesting than their primarch  I mean is great that we have so many cool characters , but Dorn always seems .... less than important in the face of how nifty  everyone else is. 

I  will say  that I  do not think Dorn showed no growth in this book , he did , he pretty much decided that he needed to do things the dirty way  and sent his boy  to play Alpharius' game. He picks the right guy too.  

All in all  I  enjoyed the book , Im glad Dorn didint just flat out D Block  Alpharius Im glad that  he needed that little bit of help , otherwise It would have been a little insulting to the Alpha Legion. 

It certainly speaks to Dorn's character in a good way that he saw his brother and pretty much went " No , this is happening , stop talking to me I am killing you. 

I am ready for the model to appear now , lets go Forgeworld. 

Book was maybe a 8 /10  if your interested in the legions involved  
If you  arent that interested in the Major Players its maybe a 7/10  

For my personal enjoyment I give it an 8.5/10 


 

[Arkangilos]

I didn't say it was a lie, I said it was nonsense. They basically told Alpharius, "Kill yourself and all your friends to make the world a better place." And Alpharius was like, "totes foh sho!" What a clown.

 

Basically it leaves Lorgar as the only Primarch with a clue. Horus got the message but missed the point, focusing on material conflict even after his own sojourn into the Warp. Humanity can never conquer Chaos that is an intrinsic part of them, unless they embrace it and complete the circle of becoming one with their creation. Alpharius was given the choice between dystopia and extinction, and opted for the latter. Lorgar found the third answer of apotheosis and was even happy to share it with his brothers. It's just his Legion was similarly small-minded and followed Erebus' example rather than the First Pilgrims, so he's locked himself up in embarrassment for the last 10,000 years.

Wait, what exactly what Lorgars third answer?

[Kilofix]

 

I didn't say it was a lie, I said it was nonsense. They basically told Alpharius, "Kill yourself and all your friends to make the world a better place." And Alpharius was like, "totes foh sho!" What a clown.

Basically it leaves Lorgar as the only Primarch with a clue. Horus got the message but missed the point, focusing on material conflict even after his own sojourn into the Warp. Humanity can never conquer Chaos that is an intrinsic part of them, unless they embrace it and complete the circle of becoming one with their creation. Alpharius was given the choice between dystopia and extinction, and opted for the latter. Lorgar found the third answer of apotheosis and was even happy to share it with his brothers. It's just his Legion was similarly small-minded and followed Erebus' example rather than the First Pilgrims, so he's locked himself up in embarrassment for the last 10,000 years.

Wait, what exactly what Lorgars third answer?

Daemons and mortals conjoined is where the true power is.

 

Edit - then it's just a question of control

[jimbo13]

I avoided this thread like the plague until I finished. It was a great read. Alpharius was awesome and tragic all in one. Dorn was perfect. I know people have mixed feelings but I like how you never see him from his own perspective. It gives you a better idea for how I think he'd actually be. Didn't have as much author bias which usually happens with primarchs. Just my two cents.

 

I NEED DORN AS A MODEL.... Like now Forgeworld...

[ak1508]

I haven't got to that point in the books where they introduce you to AL yet, but can somebody clear one thing up for me please: isn't Alph's spear supposed to have a moretal wound kinda effect once it makes a single cut into an opponent? Or could it be that Dorn, being the primarch, is not affected by it? Or it was just FW being creative to set Alph above the regular characters for tabletop purposes? Cheers!

And yes, FW - hurry up with them models! And revise the Lernaeans and Headhunters while you're at it please!

[Ishagu]

Wait, wait. Alpharius was killed and NOT by Guilliman?
Who wrote this book?

[Slips]

John French.

[Ishagu]

Not liking this, Slips. Not one bit.

[Slips]

I'm not complaining.

Besides, Omegon is still out there.

[b1soul]

 One detail wrong there

 

Letting Alpharius stab him in the shoulder wasn't the plan - Alpharius feinted in order to look vulnerable, and would have killed Dorn in a single 'perfect' thrust if it wasn't for his Huscarl's intervention - the implication is that he disrupted the 'perfect' blow enabling Dorn to take the thrust in his shoulder.

 

And this is, in my mind, why I'm not disappointed with the death - Alpharius took a risk, and lost as a result of it. It's what keeps the death of a demi-god in such brief and horrific fashion palatable to fans of both sides

If that helps you sleep at night...

 

I think it was pretty ambiguous. The blow was "perfect" from Archamus' perspective, and Dorn was much smarter than Archamus

 

I think the logical interpretation isn't that Alpharius was guaranteed to win. Rather, I think it is that if Archamus hadn't intervened, the result would've been uncertain