Praetorian of Dorn (spoilers)

[Kol Saresk]

Wait, wait. Alpharius was killed and NOT by Guilliman?

Who wrote this book?

Are you not liking the fact that a story of questionable veracity in an entire Index Astartes article that is supposed to be of questionable veracity was verified to be false, or are just not liking the fact that Guilliman wasn't the one to do it even though the Ultramarines say he never did it in the first place?

[AfroCampbell]

 

Wait, wait. Alpharius was killed and NOT by Guilliman?

Who wrote this book?

Are you not liking the fact that a story of questionable veracity in an entire Index Astartes article that is supposed to be of questionable veracity was verified to be false, or are just not liking the fact that Guilliman wasn't the one to do it even though the Ultramarines say he never did it in the first place?

 

 

I feel like this actually doesn't matter because with Omegon and other "Alpharius" characters out there, this will likely still happen.....

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

Wait, wait. Alpharius was killed and NOT by Guilliman?

Who wrote this book?

Are you not liking the fact that a story of questionable veracity in an entire Index Astartes article that is supposed to be of questionable veracity was verified to be false, or are just not liking the fact that Guilliman wasn't the one to do it even though the Ultramarines say he never did it in the first place?

I feel like this actually doesn't matter because with Omegon and other "Alpharius" characters out there, this will likely still happen.....

Oh I fully understand that with all the Dread Pirates Rogers shenanigans that it could still happen. I just don't understand why an event that the background questions as being real, in an article whose veracity the background questions, could cause such disappojntment if it weren't to happen.

 

To me, the equivalent would be that bit in the Iron Hands article where it says there were rumors that the Iron Hands built a head for Ferrus and resurrected him, and it never happens. Sure, it'd be cool, but it wouldn't be lorebreaking if it didn't happen.

[Jareddm]

 

 

I didn't say it was a lie, I said it was nonsense. They basically told Alpharius, "Kill yourself and all your friends to make the world a better place." And Alpharius was like, "totes foh sho!" What a clown.

Basically it leaves Lorgar as the only Primarch with a clue. Horus got the message but missed the point, focusing on material conflict even after his own sojourn into the Warp. Humanity can never conquer Chaos that is an intrinsic part of them, unless they embrace it and complete the circle of becoming one with their creation. Alpharius was given the choice between dystopia and extinction, and opted for the latter. Lorgar found the third answer of apotheosis and was even happy to share it with his brothers. It's just his Legion was similarly small-minded and followed Erebus' example rather than the First Pilgrims, so he's locked himself up in embarrassment for the last 10,000 years.

Wait, what exactly what Lorgars third answer?

Daemons and mortals conjoined is where the true power is.

 

Edit - then it's just a question of control

 

Except that the entire Cabal plan requires that Lorgar's plan be successful.  It is not a third option, it's the same as the extinction option.  Did you think that Horus just killing all humans would make chaos disappear?  They just retreat into the warp and find another race to latch onto.  Horus winning the Heresy means Lorgar wins as well, meaning chaos and mortals merging symbiotically.  Then and only then would Horus regretting his actions and wiping out humanity would it have a big enough impact on chaos.  It requires that chaos not only be feeding on humanity, but to be completely reliant on it in the way that only the Gal Vorbak are, detaching themselves from the safety of the warp.  That is how you permanently kill chaos and this is what the Cabal was aiming for.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

 

I didn't say it was a lie, I said it was nonsense. They basically told Alpharius, "Kill yourself and all your friends to make the world a better place." And Alpharius was like, "totes foh sho!" What a clown.

Basically it leaves Lorgar as the only Primarch with a clue. Horus got the message but missed the point, focusing on material conflict even after his own sojourn into the Warp. Humanity can never conquer Chaos that is an intrinsic part of them, unless they embrace it and complete the circle of becoming one with their creation. Alpharius was given the choice between dystopia and extinction, and opted for the latter. Lorgar found the third answer of apotheosis and was even happy to share it with his brothers. It's just his Legion was similarly small-minded and followed Erebus' example rather than the First Pilgrims, so he's locked himself up in embarrassment for the last 10,000 years.

Wait, what exactly what Lorgars third answer?

Daemons and mortals conjoined is where the true power is.

 

Edit - then it's just a question of control

Except that the entire Cabal plan requires that Lorgar's plan be successful. It is not a third option, it's the same as the extinction option. Did you think that Horus just killing all humans would make chaos disappear? They just retreat into the warp and find another race to latch onto. Horus winning the Heresy means Lorgar wins as well, meaning chaos and mortals merging symbiotically. Then and only then would Horus regretting his actions and wiping out humanity would it have a big enough impact on chaos. It requires that chaos not only be feeding on humanity, but to be completely reliant on it in the way that only the Gal Vorbak are, detaching themselves from the safety of the warp. That is how you permanently kill chaos and this is what the Cabal was aiming for.

At least that's the idea, although the background has shown the idea wouldn't pan out since it would literally require the entirety of everything that is Chaos to completely disconnect from the warp and from what we've seen, when the warp merges with something, it usually draws the material into the warp, rather than the other way around.

[Lord Blackwood]

Also we need a special command squad unit of huscarls for Dorn or imperial fist characters >.>

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Also we need a special command squad unit of huscarls for Dorn or imperial fist characters >.>

 

What makes the Huscarls any more special than another Legions command squad? Bascially, what warrants them get unique rules?

 

Im only halfway through the book, but I havent seen anything from them so far that is truly unique or rules deserving.

 

WLK

[helterskelter]

 

 

Also we need a special command squad unit of huscarls for Dorn or imperial fist characters >.>

What makes the Huscarls any more special than another Legions command squad? Bascially, what warrants them get unique rules?

 

 

WLK

The same reason keshig, atramentar, morlocks, effrit etc need rules?

But this discussion is for another thread

[jimbo13]

Rule of cool baby!!!

[Terminus]

 

 

 

I didn't say it was a lie, I said it was nonsense. They basically told Alpharius, "Kill yourself and all your friends to make the world a better place." And Alpharius was like, "totes foh sho!" What a clown.

Basically it leaves Lorgar as the only Primarch with a clue. Horus got the message but missed the point, focusing on material conflict even after his own sojourn into the Warp. Humanity can never conquer Chaos that is an intrinsic part of them, unless they embrace it and complete the circle of becoming one with their creation. Alpharius was given the choice between dystopia and extinction, and opted for the latter. Lorgar found the third answer of apotheosis and was even happy to share it with his brothers. It's just his Legion was similarly small-minded and followed Erebus' example rather than the First Pilgrims, so he's locked himself up in embarrassment for the last 10,000 years.

Wait, what exactly what Lorgars third answer?

Daemons and mortals conjoined is where the true power is.

 

Edit - then it's just a question of control

 

Except that the entire Cabal plan requires that Lorgar's plan be successful.  It is not a third option, it's the same as the extinction option.  Did you think that Horus just killing all humans would make chaos disappear?  They just retreat into the warp and find another race to latch onto.  Horus winning the Heresy means Lorgar wins as well, meaning chaos and mortals merging symbiotically.  Then and only then would Horus regretting his actions and wiping out humanity would it have a big enough impact on chaos.  It requires that chaos not only be feeding on humanity, but to be completely reliant on it in the way that only the Gal Vorbak are, detaching themselves from the safety of the warp.  That is how you permanently kill chaos and this is what the Cabal was aiming for.

 

Permanently kill Chaos?  Foolishness!  Chaos is eternal while sentient life exists, so unless Eldar planned on killing themselves right after, it would still be around.  At most by getting rid of all the humans, they would draw a firmer line between the Warp and reality because we wouldn't be around to thin the veil with all our shenanigans.  The main benefit though would be a lack of giant human crusading fleets floating around murdering everything in sight (see Fulgrim and the Maiden Worlds).  It is Xenos falsehood and lies, and the supposed Primarch of falsehood and lies fell for it.

 

The traitors winning the war would not result in a symbiotic merger of humanity and Chaos, Lorgar himself became disillusioned with how no one other than his pilgrims seemed to get the point (his own Legion quickly falling into infighting and intrigue by making daemonic pacts for very corporeal power rather than spiritual ascension to a new frame of mind, Horus at one point eyerolls at "Lorgar's tiresome proselytizing").  He was basically the only one barking up that tree, which is why he just threw up his hands and went into a tower for 10,000 years to meditate and left everyone to their own short-sighted devices.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

This is one of the major shortcomings of Lorgar and fanatics in general.

[Vaz]

Really enjoyed the read. Bought and read on the same day. 

 

Anyone who is looking for quality HH reading should pick this up.

[Fire Golem]

Avoided this thread until I finished it (just now, took me longer than I wanted) and... Wow. Not sure how to feel. Thoughts under the spoilers:

So, Alpharius is dead. Probably the first unknown about proper Primarch death in the series. I wish Omegon had died, and I'm not sure why I think that (might even be as stupid as the fact that I think Omegon is a crap name!). I guess it also shows which was the 'loyal' twin and which the traitor, as Alpharius was trying to help Dorn; I thought it was the other way round from reading Serpent Beneath so I'll have to reread that now.

 

In terms of Alpharius' motivations, I think he was trying to show Dorn that the war that was coming wasn't the kind he was used to/expecting, and showing him where the holes in his defences were (kind of like how people hire hackers to try and break into their computer systems). He might have also been there to give him information on his brothers and the plans.

 

I liked the Imperial Fists a lot in this book. I still dislike how Dorn handled things like Sigismund, but he was more likeable in this book and frankly badass. I foresee myself doing some Imperial Fists in the future, probably with Blood Angels and White Scars allies.

 

I did find myself routing for the Alpha Legion for most of the book though...

 

It felt like a return to Legion for the AL; it felt almost like a spy book, at least more towards the start. Since Legion and Serpent Beneath I think the AL have been overused, and not used particularly well, so this felt like a return to form for them.

 

Thoughts are quite jumbled, just did it as I remembered stuff really. I really enjoyed the book, probably an 8.5/10, one of the better ones definitely.

[binary]

so finished this in one day and boy is it good! Loved how John handled the AL and made Dorn a more understandable and relatable character. And the ending? Wow. We now have the first Unknown Primarch death, although I can see why Dorn wouldn't want a big fuss about it. After all would you want to admit to the general public that a large chunk of a traitor legion had got deep into the solar system?
This still leaves the door open for the whole "Omegon is Janus" thing as I think the Alpha legion have been loyal....ish. Alpharius and Omegon were both loyal but running a two man con. Play Horus' game but undermine it from the inside in different ways.
Overall 8.5/10, up there with Path of Heaven, Betrayer and Prospero Burns/A Thousand Sons

And now we know the Khan has arrived any thoughts on how Sanguinius makes it?

[Flint13]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait, wait. Alpharius was killed and NOT by Guilliman?

Who wrote this book?

Are you not liking the fact that a story of questionable veracity in an entire Index Astartes article that is supposed to be of questionable veracity was verified to be false, or are just not liking the fact that Guilliman wasn't the one to do it even though the Ultramarines say he never did it in the first place?

I feel like this actually doesn't matter because with Omegon and other "Alpharius" characters out there, this will likely still happen.....

Oh I fully understand that with all the Dread Pirates Rogers shenanigans that it could still happen. I just don't understand why an event that the background questions as being real, in an article whose veracity the background questions, could cause such disappojntment if it weren't to happen.

To me, the equivalent would be that bit in the Iron Hands article where it says there were rumors that the Iron Hands built a head for Ferrus and resurrected him, and it never happens. Sure, it'd be cool, but it wouldn't be lorebreaking if it didn't happen.

  

 

Dread Pirate Roberts .

 

Just sayian ^_^

 

so finished this in one day and boy is it good! Loved how John handled the AL and made Dorn a more understandable and relatable character. And the ending? Wow. We now have the first Unknown Primarch death, although I can see why Dorn wouldn't want a big fuss about it. After all would you want to admit to the general public that a large chunk of a traitor legion had got deep into the solar system?

This still leaves the door open for the whole "Omegon is Janus" thing as I think the Alpha legion have been loyal....ish. Alpharius and Omegon were both loyal but running a two man con. Play Horus' game but undermine it from the inside in different ways.

Overall 8.5/10, up there with Path of Heaven, Betrayer and Prospero Burns/A Thousand Sons

And now we know the Khan has arrived any thoughts on how Sanguinius makes it?

  

Avoided this thread until I finished it (just now, took me longer than I wanted) and... Wow. Not sure how to feel. Thoughts under the spoilers:

So, Alpharius is dead. Probably the first unknown about proper Primarch death in the series. I wish Omegon had died, and I'm not sure why I think that (might even be as stupid as the fact that I think Omegon is a crap name!). I guess it also shows which was the 'loyal' twin and which the traitor, as Alpharius was trying to help Dorn; I thought it was the other way round from reading Serpent Beneath so I'll have to reread that now.

In terms of Alpharius' motivations, I think he was trying to show Dorn that the war that was coming wasn't the kind he was used to/expecting, and showing him where the holes in his defences were (kind of like how people hire hackers to try and break into their computer systems). He might have also been there to give him information on his brothers and the plans.

I liked the Imperial Fists a lot in this book. I still dislike how Dorn handled things like Sigismund, but he was more likeable in this book and frankly badass. I foresee myself doing some Imperial Fists in the future, probably with Blood Angels and White Scars allies.

I did find myself routing for the Alpha Legion for most of the book though...

It felt like a return to Legion for the AL; it felt almost like a spy book, at least more towards the start. Since Legion and Serpent Beneath I think the AL have been overused, and not used particularly well, so this felt like a return to form for them.

Thoughts are quite jumbled, just did it as I remembered stuff really. I really enjoyed the book, probably an 8.5/10, one of the better ones definitely.

So I really wish I could agree here. I just finished this today and never has my opinion of a book changed so much in just a few pages.

 

I was really disappointed. I absolutely loved every single chapter until the last. It felt super cool and fun. The Alpha legion being sneaky and the Fists being awesome and stalwart. It totally felt like a return to Legion for the Alphas, but this time they have a legit foe to challenge them and bring some super characterful interactions and set pieces.

 

Except actually Dorn > Alpharius, 100% undebateably. And that was incredibly disappointing. It really seemed like up until now that the BL authors had done a great job of showing each legion at their strengths and weaknesses, highs and lows, balanced in their portrayals bc some legions are better at some things than others, but never definitively better than another legion. For every Ultramarine shieldwall that breaks a World Eater charge between crossfire ambushes, there's a Khârn yelling "our turn" and hammering eight shades of crap out of the 13th.

 

But not in Praetorian. Dorn is so good at... Dorning?... that he knows Alpharius's plans before they're even in motion. He knows which Astartes is Alpharius before he even opens the door. He plans around Alpharius's plans so well that even his momentary "losses" are victories in disguise both in the overall battle and in personal combat. Also, no chance whatsoever that the primarch of the legion known for being a fun mystery slipped out of this one, even though that's his entire shtick. Dorn is just too Dorn. Sorry not sorry, loser Alpha legion fans!

 

Plus I'm not going to lie, the last fight in Praetorian was straight up uncomfortable and alienating in its imagery. It wasn't subtle and I think a little more forethought in the description there would have really been worth it.

 

All of the above was hard to say, bc up until now I think Mr. French's work has been absolutely spectacular.

[Terminus]

That's a pretty harsh reading of it, looked to me like Dorn was totally going to eat a spear to the face if it wasn't for Arachmus deflecting the strike long enough for Dorn to catch it by letting it impale his shoulder instead. Although the Deus Ex Machina appearance of the Phallax was so corny as to be par for the course now with BL. Alpha Legion always has these perfect plans with all the advantage of surprise and numbers, and then BAM! Battle Station in yo face!

[Flint13]

Dorn wasn't going to eat spear to the face (hah), he was already stepping into the blow in the perfect counter before Arch swung.

 

The Phallax didn't just "appear," either. Dorn already knew exactly what Alpharius was doing and was already moving fleet assets to counter it.

 

He out planned Alpharius in both combat (feasible) and strategy and subterfuge (less feasible) because Dorn.

[Terminus]

If you read it that way, then the whole book becomes a giant pile of crap.  I would like to give Mr. French the benefit of the doubt.

 

Dorn knowing which Legionnaire was Alpharius before he walked through the door was derpy, but let's say it was just bravado.

 

The Phallax being in position to somehow slingshot from inner system to Pluto (the first sphere of defense is somehow an orbiting planet and its moons, so we're already knee-deep in dumb here) can also be handwaved away as a contingency in place for when the fire on the mountain alarm was raised (which was earlier in the book, making the whole "we got Pluto and no one knows" premise really shaky).

 

Regarding the combat, let's see:

 

 

Dorn drove into the Lernaeans, red spattering his face, Storm’s Teeth shedding blood. Then, with a suddenness that halted the shallow breath in Archamus’ throat, Alpharius’ spear thrust up from the press of ranks. Its tip shimmered, silver reflection fading to mist, and Archamus thought that the sound fled from his ears, as it drove at his lord’s chest. It was a beautiful strike. In all his years of war Archamus had never seen the like, its simplicity like a line drawn by a master artisan on a bare parchment. It was death and ruin, and silence without end... And Storm’s Teeth met the spear thrust, and reality shrieked. A sheet of silver sparks exploded from the point at which the two weapons met. Alpharius and Dorn stood before each other, and it was as though the universe made space for this meeting of brothers.

 

Dorn sliced downwards. Alpharius raised the spear. The weapons clashed, and suddenly the Alpha Legion primarch was spinning close, Storm’s Teeth arcing past him harmlessly. Alpharius lunged. Dorn jerked aside, blink-fast. The spear-tip caught his shoulder and punched through the golden armour. Dorn staggered. Dorn was a stride in front of Archamus, blood bright and scattering as he wrenched free of Alpharius’ spear.

 

Dorn stepped forwards, Storm’s Teeth slamming down, battering into the spear blade in a blaze of light. Alpharius slipped to the side, and Dorn turned the direction of his cut as it fell. But Alpharius was not where his movement should have taken him. He was behind Dorn’s cut, the blade of his spear slicing down. Dorn swayed aside, and the spear blade skimmed his chest. Slivers of gold and silver feathers fell to the deck, and Alpharius was overextended, and Dorn was turning, his strength flowing into a wide lateral cut that would never land. It would never land, because in that instant Archamus saw what was about to happen. Alpharius was not overextended; he was exactly where he needed to be to turn past Dorn’s blow and make another, last, perfect thrust with his spear.

 

Archamus felt his blood-drained body try to move faster, try to push itself across the few metres separating him from the lord, whose life and service were the reason he did not fear. Dorn cut. Storm’s Teeth blurred. Alpharius swayed back, pivoting and sliding a hair’s breadth past the screaming edge. Archamus lunged to his lord’s side, his seax blade reaching for the spear thrust even as it unfolded. His blade caught the haft of Alpharius’ spear, and the force of the connection kicked through his metal arm like the kiss of a lightning bolt. Archamus reeled back staggering to the deck. And the spear struck home. It rammed through Dorn’s armour and into the flesh. And stopped. Dorn stood, unmoved, the spear embedded in his shoulder where he had stepped in to take the blow. His left hand was locked around the spear’s haft. For an instant the two primarchs were an arm’s reach apart, eye to eye.

 

So the first thrust Dorn was able to parry, the second thrust cut him open, and for the sake of not setting Black Library's offices on fire and mounting John's head on a pike, I'd like to think that Arachmus's momentary interference allowed Dorn the opportunity to step in and counter the fight-ending third.  It is pretty lame that Alpharius had time to run his mouth but no time to ... I donno, let go of the spear or do some more kung-fu stuff.... before Dorn took him literally to pieces.

[Flint13]

See, i really love Mr. French's work too, which is why I wanted to chat and debate over this.

 

I read that last part "where he had stepped in to take the blow" as Dorn was already in motion. He caught the spear. Doesn't really matter where it struck him, or if Archamus knocked it all screwy. Dorn already knew where it was and didn't even bother to parry it, he just caught it. But I see what you mean.

 

Also, the paragraph of Dorn taking Alpharius to pieces was the most uncomfortable thing I've listened to out of black library since the Heart of Mortarion. It was not subtle.

[Terminus]

He stepped in, but as someone who has fought with a spear (and a bayonet which is basically a spear), having the haft struck mid-thrust is enough to basically completely ruin your line. "Doesn't really matter where it struck him, or if Archamus knocked it all screwy"?  What if he didn't knock it all screwy and it struck in him in the face or the chest, rather than a pauldron?

[AfroCampbell]

See, i really love Mr. French's work too, which is why I wanted to chat and debate over this.

 

I read that last part "where he had stepped in to take the blow" as Dorn was already in motion. He caught the spear. Doesn't really matter where it struck him, or if Archamus knocked it all screwy. Dorn already knew where it was and didn't even bother to parry it, he just caught it. But I see what you mean.

 

Also, the paragraph of Dorn taking Alpharius to pieces was the most uncomfortable thing I've listened to out of black library since the Heart of Mortarion. It was not subtle.

 

Its interesting Flint the points you raise,

however I think half the premise of this book is that the attack on Terra set Dorn on a warpath to vengeance against the AL, and in a much more subtle way that Alpharius might think (ie setting up Archamus on his secret errand) and if you read the flashback of them campaigning together, it is clear to see how Dorn knows how truly predictable Alpharius is in his 'unpredictability'. He truly gets him and knows how he operates. If i remember correctly he even discusses that with him in the throne room. 

I think it just seems that Alphy felt that sneaky tricks were his special snowflake trick, and that he could pull them without his brothers ever recognizing how predictable and proud he was in doing this. Dorn (understanding this, and his brother's psychology to a certain extent), decides to pull a sly Alpha Legion-style trick of his own....

 

I know that is over-simplifying a relatively complex novel and interactions, but I feel at the heart of the plot is the interaction between Alpharius and Dorn, and the fact that Alphy really is not as unpredictable as he thinks he is, and Dorn is not as obtuse as we thought he was, he has a subtlety in action and understanding of his brothers that we haven't previously seen.

 

Well that is my reading of it (simplified).

 

[Terminus]

The discussion in the throne room is Dorn fuming that Alpharius murdered the leaders of the rebels rather than the troops, and then suggests some psychological mumbo-jumbo as a "better" alternative to Alpharius's scheming.

 

But yeah, really... the place where you strike is Hydra Station? Come on, dude.

[Flint13]

^^That's the issue I had with the novel though. If anyone is getting the snowflake, fan fiction treatment, it'd be Dorn.

 

For example, It would be super awkward for everyone if a BL author wrote a story about, let's say Lorgar, sneaking up on Corax. Or Perturabo gets the idea to go hunting and kills just waaay more giant beasts than Lion and Russ put together.

 

All told, legionaries are very physically evenly matched, it's their legion specialties that set them apart. The chaos and confusion of the Heresy is the perfect setting for the Alpha legion to operate in. You don't fight Night Lords in the dark, Iron Warriors in a trench or Alphas when they have the cover of galaxy-wide confusion to operate with every bit of subterfuge they could ever want.

 

But not in Praetorian. It's stating Dorn > Alpharius for the reason of (as near as I can tell) making Dorn look awesome. However, that's at the expense of tossing a mainline character under the bus to make it super serious dramatic. Alpharius lost at everything from the grandest to the most minute scale against Dorn, who knew everything he was ever going to plan before Alpharius planned it at every step from the prologue on. Then Alpharius was metaphorically castrated, literally humiliated and killed with his own weapon.

 

*Edit*

^I will 100% concede that Hydra station is a hilariously poor choice of target :lol:

[Terminus]

Now now, Flint, I knew we were kin in midnight clad, but I had no idea you had such an affinity for the serpents.

 

Regarding Dorn knowing which Alpharius is Alpharius, again I think that's more bravado than anything.  In Serpent Beneath we see that even Alpharius can't really tell one of his juiced doubles from the real thing.  Dorn was first intently staring at the wrong guy before guessing the right one... was he really trying to fake out Alpharius or did he genuinely not know?  His comment about knowing before entering is probably more an allusion to expecting Alpharius to try to do some silly mysterious crap for the sake of it.  As for Omegon "knowing" Alpharius died, perhaps he just felt the psychic copy die... we've already established by this point that Omegon and Alpharius are working at cross purposes, and it would be in Alpharius' interests and MO to fake his own death in an elaborate enough way to even fool his brother.  So the hope is alive!

 

As for the Phallanx and Dorn showing up, Alpharius was clearly luring Dorn to their meeting place, both with the statues he blew up and flat out admitting it when he stabbed one of Arachmus' hearts out (he expected Dorn to be there, not one of his Huscarls).  Of course, that means that Alpharius planned for the Phallanx showing up so I guess his plan was just to have all his guys die for a chance to assassinate Dorn?  Seeing as none of the Alpha ships were close enough to Hydra to extract him via teleportation (that's the last thing Silonius[?] asks before retreating), Alpharius had no exit strategy even if he succeeded.  So I have no idea what the point of all that was.

 

Plus you can take solace in the fact that eventually Dorn comes around to realize Alpharius was right, that he can't put the Imperium back together again, that he has to kill his good friend Voss to keep a secret, that he has to sacrifice the ideals of truth and illumination of the Imperium, that there is no more place in the Imperium for an idealist and his only recourse is to paint his armour black and die with some measure of honour fighting the adversaries of humanity.

[Balthamal]

Or the way you could look at it is that Alpharius won in the end. After all it's Dorn's idealism that sets him apart from the rest of the Primarchs - Sanguinius is resigned to dying to Horus even before Terra, Gulliman has already had a trial run at setting up another Imperium. The Khan and Russ are focused on the here and now whilst the Lion? Who knows. But it's this event that truly shows Dorn what's heading his way and that there's absolutely no chance he'll get to go back to the way things were.

 

I was pretty pissed at the end in realizing that in 2 books, the Primarchs of the 2 Legions I like best have been :cuss punted hard by Gav and John but if it makes a good story then there's always going to be a loser. Or in Alpharius' case a winner, in a really roundabout way.

 

As I said elsewhere though, the thing that pleased me the most about this book is the handbrake on the perceived power of the AL. Nobody can really complain about that anymore because JF came right out and said that yeah they might be anywhere doing anything, but these guys had the best part of a decade of being able to move through the Imperium at will and plant the seeds of their plots. That's an amazing amount of effort, energy and coordination needed.