Praetorian of Dorn (spoilers)

[Terminus]

Hey, at least we have a spare, and he seems the smarter of the two for not buying the Cabal nonsense.

[Blindhamster]

Dorn wasn't going to eat spear to the face (hah), he was already stepping into the blow in the perfect counter before Arch swung.

 

The Phallax didn't just "appear," either. Dorn already knew exactly what Alpharius was doing and was already moving fleet assets to counter it.

 

He out planned Alpharius in both combat (feasible) and strategy and subterfuge (less feasible) because Dorn.

Isn't the reason dorn knows where to send his fleet because the old crotchety imperial commander and one time alpha Legion contact decides his loyalty to the imperium is more important than his loyalty to the alphas? It's a short scene but felt very important in the end. Particularly because they don't say exactly which way he decides to turn

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

Dorn wasn't going to eat spear to the face (hah), he was already stepping into the blow in the perfect counter before Arch swung.

 

The Phallax didn't just "appear," either. Dorn already knew exactly what Alpharius was doing and was already moving fleet assets to counter it.

 

He out planned Alpharius in both combat (feasible) and strategy and subterfuge (less feasible) because Dorn.

Isn't the reason dorn knows where to send his fleet because the old crotchety imperial commander and one time alpha Legion contact decides his loyalty to the imperium is more important than his loyalty to the alphas? It's a short scene but felt very important in the end. Particularly because they don't say exactly which way he decides to turn

 

 

that's the impression I got. 

 

Dorn was led around by the nose, got one lucky break, and barely managed to sneak out a W

 

WLK

[betrayer41]

 

 

 

Dorn wasn't going to eat spear to the face (hah), he was already stepping into the blow in the perfect counter before Arch swung.

 

The Phallax didn't just "appear," either. Dorn already knew exactly what Alpharius was doing and was already moving fleet assets to counter it.

 

He out planned Alpharius in both combat (feasible) and strategy and subterfuge (less feasible) because Dorn.

Isn't the reason dorn knows where to send his fleet because the old crotchety imperial commander and one time alpha Legion contact decides his loyalty to the imperium is more important than his loyalty to the alphas? It's a short scene but felt very important in the end. Particularly because they don't say exactly which way he decides to turn

that's the impression I got.

 

Dorn was led around by the nose, got one lucky break, and barely managed to sneak out a W

 

WLK

 

[Fallen11]

So, after reading it, if I got it right, Alpharious killing blow was stopped by 'dead guy' who deflected it enough to ruin it? And he was all that time, ignored by everyone around? Btw. that 'great' spear, seems like a poor choice, when all it can do is poke someone, and even then, it takes aparently ages for other guy to die, while on the other hand, giant chainsword will just hack through anything. Why even bother with something like spear, when there are so much better and effective weapon choiches out there?

 

Also, if all it takes do defeat spear wilder is to impale yourself on his spear, but just enought not to kill yourself, and then you are free to hack at him, since you made his spear useless? I mean, primarch are so hard to kill, so anything short of hacking one in half or chopping their head, is really lack uster weapon for fighting.

Weren't they fighting in chamber full of ordinance? Why not rig it, so in case you loose, you just blow it, and win in the end?

There is always some ship that is bigger and stronger than any other till then...

Of all those spies AL has, no one saw giant IF fleet go somewhere, and warned AL?

So we see AL going to war like real legion, giant fleet etc. and then they loose in their own game of secrecy, because, you know, we know we are fighting AL, and thus, we know how they fight, and thus we win, because we know who are we against, and what to expect. SO just plan, okay, they think we will do this because we are blunt, and just make trap for their trap, job done...they won't expect us ever to do something out of ordinary. Because we are stupid and straightforward, one cannot think out side of the box.

Can we expect in next book, Ravenguard winning vs IW, because they know that IW like siege warfare, so they will win them in their own game, and simply out gun them, just bring more guns than IW , screw sneakiness. In fight after that, IW sneak and destroy RG in ambushes etc.

[Runefyre]

So, after reading it, if I got it right, Alpharious killing blow was stopped by 'dead guy' who deflected it enough to ruin it? And he was all that time, ignored by everyone around? Btw. that 'great' spear, seems like a poor choice, when all it can do is poke someone, and even then, it takes aparently ages for other guy to die, while on the other hand, giant chainsword will just hack through anything. Why even bother with something like spear, when there are so much better and effective weapon choiches out there?

 

Also, if all it takes do defeat spear wilder is to impale yourself on his spear, but just enought not to kill yourself, and then you are free to hack at him, since you made his spear useless? I mean, primarch are so hard to kill, so anything short of hacking one in half or chopping their head, is really lack uster weapon for fighting.

Weren't they fighting in chamber full of ordinance? Why not rig it, so in case you loose, you just blow it, and win in the end?

There is always some ship that is bigger and stronger than any other till then...

Of all those spies AL has, no one saw giant IF fleet go somewhere, and warned AL?

So we see AL going to war like real legion, giant fleet etc. and then they loose in their own game of secrecy, because, you know, we know we are fighting AL, and thus, we know how they fight, and thus we win, because we know who are we against, and what to expect. SO just plan, okay, they think we will do this because we are blunt, and just make trap for their trap, job done...they won't expect us ever to do something out of ordinary. Because we are stupid and straightforward, one cannot think out side of the box.

Can we expect in next book, Ravenguard winning vs IW, because they know that IW like siege warfare, so they will win them in their own game, and simply out gun them, just bring more guns than IW , screw sneakiness. In fight after that, IW sneak and destroy RG in ambushes etc.

I like seeing AL get beat for once.

[IronDrake28]

 

 

So, after reading it, if I got it right, Alpharious killing blow was stopped by 'dead guy' who deflected it enough to ruin it? And he was all that time, ignored by everyone around? Btw. that 'great' spear, seems like a poor choice, when all it can do is poke someone, and even then, it takes aparently ages for other guy to die, while on the other hand, giant chainsword will just hack through anything. Why even bother with something like spear, when there are so much better and effective weapon choiches out there?

 

Also, if all it takes do defeat spear wilder is to impale yourself on his spear, but just enought not to kill yourself, and then you are free to hack at him, since you made his spear useless? I mean, primarch are so hard to kill, so anything short of hacking one in half or chopping their head, is really lack uster weapon for fighting.

Weren't they fighting in chamber full of ordinance? Why not rig it, so in case you loose, you just blow it, and win in the end?

There is always some ship that is bigger and stronger than any other till then...

Of all those spies AL has, no one saw giant IF fleet go somewhere, and warned AL?

So we see AL going to war like real legion, giant fleet etc. and then they loose in their own game of secrecy, because, you know, we know we are fighting AL, and thus, we know how they fight, and thus we win, because we know who are we against, and what to expect. SO just plan, okay, they think we will do this because we are blunt, and just make trap for their trap, job done...they won't expect us ever to do something out of ordinary. Because we are stupid and straightforward, one cannot think out side of the box.

Can we expect in next book, Ravenguard winning vs IW, because they know that IW like siege warfare, so they will win them in their own game, and simply out gun them, just bring more guns than IW , screw sneakiness. In fight after that, IW sneak and destroy RG in ambushes etc.

I like seeing AL get beat for once.

Being an AL fan, I loved it still. Dorn sees the truth behind every lie.

[Marshal Rohr]

I think John French's angle was laid out by Dorn's dressing down of Alpharius tactics in the middle of the novel gives away how the ending should be seen. Basically Dorn countered the AL attack because it was predictable in its unpredictability. Dorn isn't such a rigid tactician because he's incapable of cleverness, he's a rigid tactician because his style of war leaves reconciliation possible. The guy is based on the soldier king archetype of 1700's (Frederick the great and his father), and during that time the European powers practiced a limited application of force. It's not that Dorn couldn't be sneaky, he just didn't want to be sneaky. Because he knew Aloharius couldn't blow his nose without infiltrating the upper command echelon of his nostril hair, he simply waited for the alphas to spring their extra sneaky trap and slapped them with a hammer. Like a capoeira fighter dancing around only to be shot in the face.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have really enjoyed reading the book even with all the spoilers here from those that don't like it.

[Runefyre]

I have really enjoyed reading the book even with all the spoilers here from those that don't like it.

I think I'll have to check it out. I like Dorn and Sigismund.

[Terminus]

I like seeing AL get beat for once.

It's okay, can't win them all and we got plenty more goons where those came from (Primarchs too). I guess the boys were still sore from killing all those Space Wolves. ;)

[The_son_of_Dorn]

But is Alpharius actually dead. *que the music*

[IronDrake28]

But is Alpharius actually dead. *que the music*

Careful, some people weren't happy with discussing that on the Fate of Alphy thread XD.

[Leman Russ SW]

Did anyone else find it strange the Wolves were not mentioned at all in the novel?  At the end we are told the Scar have arrived and we know from Path of Heaven that they are met in the Sol System by Russ and his fleet, so what are they doing while the invasion and system wide alarm is going off?

[Gree]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm quite fine with Dorn dominating and annihilating Alpharius. At least partially due to my like of Dorn and my growing dislike of Alpharius.

 

I think John French's angle was laid out by Dorn's dressing down of Alpharius tactics in the middle of the novel gives away how the ending should be seen. Basically Dorn countered the AL attack because it was predictable in its unpredictability. Dorn isn't such a rigid tactician because he's incapable of cleverness, he's a rigid tactician because his style of war leaves reconciliation possible. The guy is based on the soldier king archetype of 1700's (Frederick the great and his father), and during that time the European powers practiced a limited application of force. It's not that Dorn couldn't be sneaky, he just didn't want to be sneaky. Because he knew Aloharius couldn't blow his nose without infiltrating the upper command echelon of his nostril hair, he simply waited for the alphas to spring their extra sneaky trap and slapped them with a hammer. Like a capoeira fighter dancing around only to be shot in the face.

 

Indeed.

 

I've always felt the Alpha Legion seemed too omniscient and omnipresent in previous novels. To have them be defeated is quite nice to hear.

 

It puts a bit more stock in the whole ''Dorn has the greatest military mind'' quote from Horus.

[Terminus]

Was it really predictably unpredictable?  They linchpin was HYDRA station for goodness' sake.  The whole plan seemed half-assed and Alpharius acted deranged.  I'm sticking to my interpretation that went crazy after the Acuity and Omegon pulled some strings behind the scenes to get him snuffed.  People talk about that final scene with Omegon a lot, but no one else seems to mention that he was neither saddened nor surprised, and if anything, already resigned to have "the jest become reality".

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Not got to this book yet but I made some strong coffee and reviewed the *situation*

 

A fight between the if and Al at this level just seemed retarded. The al are supposed to be the creme of the intelligence crop. This engagement dispells that notion. What did he hope to gain? And it must not be the real Alpharius just some ploy to be twisted at a later stage.

 

Regardless I hope this is eleduded to in some action between alpha and Omegon

[IronDrake28]

Was it really predictably unpredictable? They linchpin was HYDRA station for goodness' sake. The whole plan seemed half-assed and Alpharius acted deranged. I'm sticking to my interpretation that went crazy after the Acuity and Omegon pulled some strings behind the scenes to get him snuffed. People talk about that final scene with Omegon a lot, but no one else seems to mention that he was neither saddened nor surprised, and if anything, already resigned to have "the jest become reality".

He seemed pretty shaken up from the way I read it. The fact he's surprised he's slept for the first time in a while, the way he repeats how he's all alone. To me it was just how a Primarch would deal with panic, suppressing it. He has more important things to do despite the situation.

[Terminus]

^ exactly there was zero gain unless the whole thing was just to lure Dorn and Dorn alone to that station (without any backup or his pet battle station), and then assassinate him. Which itself is fraught with so many variables as to be an insane plan. Hence my understanding that the Xenos fried his brain with the Acuity. I'd like to think Alpharius is the twin who was tortured and manipulated by Slaught, which would provide the impetus to consider extinction preferable to a drawn-out end.

[Marshal Loss]

I see this thread and all I can do is worry that Omegon doesn't have a spare of that badass spear.

[IronDrake28]

I see this thread and all I can do is worry that Omegon doesn't have a spare of that badass spear.

You kidding me? They've probably got one for every Legionnaire. XD

 

(Dorn's execution of Alphy was pretty sweet tho...)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Some of us are still reading the book... Please use spoiler tags instead of giving away every scene.

 

Thanks.

[Fire Golem]

Some of us are still reading the book... Please use spoiler tags instead of giving away every scene.

Thanks.

It does specify spoilers in the thread title.

[1ncarnadine]

^This. This is the spoilers discussion thread! For non-spoiler discussion, I believe there's a thread in the Black Library section.

 

The book is very hard to talk about without spoiling something, though. I'd honestly just recommend a forum black-out until you finish it.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well people were using spoilers in the beginning. I've had more than one person tell me this pretty much ruined the novel for them .