Praetorian of Dorn (spoilers)

[Jackalwolf]

Is that you Alpharius?

I don't know what you're speaking about and I was definitely never in the orbit of Pluto.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Something I dont understand is how Arkhamus (sp?) the Huscarl was able to help Dorn during the duel, Maybe I must have missed something.

[Lord_Ikka]

Something I dont understand is how Arkhamus (sp?) the Huscarl was able to help Dorn during the duel, Maybe I must have missed something.

It was a minor bit of help, using his mace to deflect the Pale Spear slightly off target, so that it hit Dorn's pauldron rather than his chest. Archarus was almost dead, with one heart destroyed, but had just enough left to save Dorn's butt before dying.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I thought at most Alpharius tripped over his comatose body. Some people tried to make it sound like Dorn had Alpharius tied up in the turn buckle .

 

[Augustus]

I may be misremembering but wasn't the Maginot line famously ineffective?

 

Yep. Which doesn't bode well for Dorn as he is making one IN SPACE.

 

As I mentioned the Germans went around in totally by invading the Low Countries. 

 

The "Spheres" might work, I just have trouble understanding how they work. Static defenses in space seems like a bad idea. Mobility and maneuvering seems a much better use of Dorn's time.

[Marshal Rohr]

If I could explain it better it would make sense :P. Its this thing about rotating ships inside a sphere. So like think of a fleet with four battle ships, arranged in a diamond, with all their ventral sides pointing inward. Then destroyer and frigate squadrons arranged in triangles, ventral sides all facing inward again, and those are orbiting the diamond of battleships. Then it just expands outward from there. Its always moving and every angle is always covered. 

[Marshal Loss]

From memory, the Imperial Fists do something similar at the Battle of Phall - see Book 3, Extermination.

[Augustus]

That makes a lot more sense. Thanks!

[b1soul]

It was a minor bit of help, using his mace to deflect the Pale Spear slightly off target, so that it hit Dorn's pauldron rather than his chest.

We don't know by how much Archamus deflects the blow...it's all written very ambiguously, I suspect deliberately so

[Kastor Krieg]

From memory, the Imperial Fists do something similar at the Battle of Phall - see Book 3, Extermination.

This dude. He is The Dude. Original Crimson Fist.

http://www.puttyandpaint.com/images/uploads/artistworks/7902/9__sized.jpg

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I wish I could paint 1/2 that good.

 

<3

[Supe robot gangster #1]

My eyes exploded from excessive amounts of awesome thrust upon them...

[The_son_of_Dorn]

It's like every unit is superior to rogal dorn. Even his own astartes.

[Cadmus Tyro]

So, finished reading the book last night. I have to say I really enjoyed it, probably one of the better books of late IMHO. I actually finished it thinking what an awesome kill teams campaign you could make out of the scenes.

 

Here are my thoughts regarding the fate of Alpharius (sorry for the text wall):

 

Firstly, I believe Alpharius' physical body has been destroyed by Dorn, but holding Silonius' consciousness/soul. Conversely, Alpharius exists within the body of Silonius on the "Alpha" battle barge.

 

I think there are a few details that support this. In the scene where Silonius is psychically "reconditioned" the scene ends with him looking back at his own body from that of Alpharius. Alpharius is seen to be going through the same psychic process. Secondly, there are two references in the book where this technique is used to assassinate a target. The Crimson walker describes the technique being used during old night, he refers to assassins souls being planted into another, thus implying the technique is possible. During the flashback altercation between Dorn and Alpharius reference is made that the assassinations were made by a contact of the target, further evidence for use of the technique.

 

I agree that the whole of the assault on the Hydra base orbiting Pluto seems far too obvious for Alpharius, and the book leaves a bitter taste in the mouth for the Alpha legion fan because "Alpharius's" death is so quick and seemingly foolish. Whereas, at the start of the book we see a very different picture, a competent infiltration and escape from the emperors palace. Why go to such lengths the emphasise the alpha legions ability to then make them look so incompetent at the end? The whole assault on Pluto seems set up to fail, it barely managed to scratch the surface of Sols defence. We and the Imperium are meant to believe that Alpharius is dead.

 

The book talks about the primary objective of the alpha legion, something which is never disclosed. I believe the primary target was to make Dorn believe he had killed Alpharius, knowledge is power. In actual fact he has killed Silonius, within the body of Alpharius. It would explain Alpharius's statements during his dual with Dorn - Silonius did not know the primary objective, given his experience during the other missions he thought the primary objective was to reveal the weakness in Sols defence system and how it responded to threat, hence his offer of help to Dorn.

 

I think this also explains why Silonius (on the battle barge alpha) was so quick to withdraw from the battlefield, the mission was complete. Now Alpharius exists within the body of Silonius, able to command the legion in the way he always has.

 

It also forces Omegons hand, it now means he must take the head leadership role of the legion and follow the course already set in motion by Alpharius. The last chapter mentions how the role will in effect trap the Primarch. I still have hope that the "Janus" story line will evolve from Omegon.

 

Perhaps (and this is even wilder speculation) the technology stolen Raven guard will be used to clone Alpharius and his consciousness will be transferred back at this point from Sionius. You can clone biology but you cannot replicate the mind/soul.

 

Rampant speculation? Or do I have a point?

 

Cadmus

[Lord_Ikka]

You could definitely have a point, but what about Omegon's feeling of being alone?

[Cadmus Tyro]

Perhaps it's the interpretation of a physical disconnection, maybe this is the only way Alpharius could convince Omegon he was dead? As such, he is forcing Omegon to follow the path set out by the cabal, whereas he had previously decided to side with the emperor. Is it a way of controlling Omegons actions?

[Jackalwolf]

That would be one of the only ways the whole Pluto thing makes sense indeed! If we hadn't had so much confirmation that Alpharius is dead from BL authors and editors...

[Cadmus Tyro]

That would be one of the only ways the whole Pluto thing makes sense indeed! If we hadn't had so much confirmation that Alpharius is dead from BL authors and editors...

Could you reference that for me? Must have missed that in the rumour section. Although it still doesn't really disprove the theory, physically Alpharius's body is dead.....

 

How would you explain the points I made regarding the switch?

[DuskRaider]

Exactly. The body may be dead, but the mind is elsewhere. I have no doubt he lives on, most likely his consciousness in Silonius.

[helterskelter]

Loken had a building dropped on him and lived, so I'm more than happy with those kind of AL shenanigans, if it were the case.

[Lord Tharand]

So, finished reading the book last night. I have to say I really enjoyed it, probably one of the better books of late IMHO. I actually finished it thinking what an awesome kill teams campaign you could make out of the scenes.

 

Here are my thoughts regarding the fate of Alpharius (sorry for the text wall):

 

Firstly, I believe Alpharius' physical body has been destroyed by Dorn, but holding Silonius' consciousness/soul. Conversely, Alpharius exists within the body of Silonius on the "Alpha" battle barge.

 

I think there are a few details that support this. In the scene where Silonius is psychically "reconditioned" the scene ends with him looking back at his own body from that of Alpharius. Alpharius is seen to be going through the same psychic process. Secondly, there are two references in the book where this technique is used to assassinate a target. The Crimson walker describes the technique being used during old night, he refers to assassins souls being planted into another, thus implying the technique is possible. During the flashback altercation between Dorn and Alpharius reference is made that the assassinations were made by a contact of the target, further evidence for use of the technique.

 

I agree that the whole of the assault on the Hydra base orbiting Pluto seems far too obvious for Alpharius, and the book leaves a bitter taste in the mouth for the Alpha legion fan because "Alpharius's" death is so quick and seemingly foolish. Whereas, at the start of the book we see a very different picture, a competent infiltration and escape from the emperors palace. Why go to such lengths the emphasise the alpha legions ability to then make them look so incompetent at the end? The whole assault on Pluto seems set up to fail, it barely managed to scratch the surface of Sols defence. We and the Imperium are meant to believe that Alpharius is dead.

 

The book talks about the primary objective of the alpha legion, something which is never disclosed. I believe the primary target was to make Dorn believe he had killed Alpharius, knowledge is power. In actual fact he has killed Silonius, within the body of Alpharius. It would explain Alpharius's statements during his dual with Dorn - Silonius did not know the primary objective, given his experience during the other missions he thought the primary objective was to reveal the weakness in Sols defence system and how it responded to threat, hence his offer of help to Dorn.

 

I think this also explains why Silonius (on the battle barge alpha) was so quick to withdraw from the battlefield, the mission was complete. Now Alpharius exists within the body of Silonius, able to command the legion in the way he always has.

 

It also forces Omegons hand, it now means he must take the head leadership role of the legion and follow the course already set in motion by Alpharius. The last chapter mentions how the role will in effect trap the Primarch. I still have hope that the "Janus" story line will evolve from Omegon.

 

Perhaps (and this is even wilder speculation) the technology stolen Raven guard will be used to clone Alpharius and his consciousness will be transferred back at this point from Sionius. You can clone biology but you cannot replicate the mind/soul.

 

Rampant speculation? Or do I have a point?

 

Cadmus

 

I agree very much with this theory and was attempting to articulate it when I couldn't figure out how the spoiler tags worked.  I also believe the scene between Dorn and Alpharius in the throne room is very telling and full of foreshadow.

[Jackalwolf]

 

That would be one of the only ways the whole Pluto thing makes sense indeed! If we hadn't had so much confirmation that Alpharius is dead from BL authors and editors...

Could you reference that for me? Must have missed that in the rumour section. Although it still doesn't really disprove the theory, physically Alpharius's body is dead.....

How would you explain the points I made regarding the switch?

Hey mate, I actually would like your theory to be true. I understood that Silonius conscious was transferred to Alpharius body overriding his temporarily and thus making him see his own body, but at no time Alpharius is described seeing his own body too which made me think that they took Silonius consciousness and duplicated it rather than doing a freaky Friday body swap.

 

Also in the scenes in the Alpha, Silonius seems to be conscious that he is Silonius and at no point that changes.

 

Then Omegon would feel he was alone if the soul of Alpharius died, not his body.

 

But the crucial point was in the BL live event where the author and Laurie Goulding clarified Alpharius was dead and not coming back.

[BattleBrotherJohn]

As a fully paid up fan boy of all things Imperial Fist all I can say is

 

Go Team Dorn !!  

 

In your face super sneaky snake boys !  

 

If nothing else it showed Rogal Dorn doing more than standing around , being grim, building walls .

Still no idea what the Alpha Legion were up to .

[Cadmus Tyro]

I agree very much with this theory and was attempting to articulate it when I couldn't figure out how the spoiler tags worked.  I also believe the scene between Dorn and Alpharius in the throne room is very telling and full of foreshadow.

Yes, I was contemplating the significance of Silonius being present at that meeting. Perhaps it was the coincidence of his presence that led to Alpharius choosing to switch places with him.

 

On further reflection, I also think it may explain why the duel between Alpharius and Dorn was so short. Granted, Dorn should have won the engagement (if the table top stats are anything to go by), but I would have expect Alpharius to last a few more rounds. Silonius had the body of a primarch at his command, but not the experience of using it....

[IronDrake28]

Inversely, I think Alpharius lost to Dorn because he was in Silonius' body. He had the skill of a Primarch but not the physical strength and durability. That would be why Alpharius was ducking in and out of combat and poking Dorn, he couldn't afford to be caught out. (Though I'm sure that doesn't differ too much from Alpharius' normal fighting style.)