BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Here come the conspiracy theories again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4590895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tharand Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I agree very much with this theory and was attempting to articulate it when I couldn't figure out how the spoiler tags worked. I also believe the scene between Dorn and Alpharius in the throne room is very telling and full of foreshadow.Yes, I was contemplating the significance of Silonius being present at that meeting. Perhaps it was the coincidence of his presence that led to Alpharius choosing to switch places with him. On further reflection, I also think it may explain why the duel between Alpharius and Dorn was so short. Granted, Dorn should have won the engagement (if the table top stats are anything to go by), but I would have expect Alpharius to last a few more rounds. Silonius had the body of a primarch at his command, but not the experience of using it.... Agreed. The book expends a lot of effort making the reader believe it was truly Alpharius that a few of the small clues dropped along the way are easily overlooked. The whole attack has to be a rouse to make Dorn believe the traitors would follow a particular plan of action or direction of attack. To Dorn it plays out exactly like he expects Alpha Legion to operate and Alpharius showing his typical hubris (as foreshadowed in the throne room). That's the only way the attack makes sense in my mind. Alpharius is showing Dorn exactly what he wants and expects to see. Heck the entire force could have just been made up of newly created astartes. We know Alpha Legion has access to the technology stolen from the Raven Guard. Otherwise how does a very large portion of a legion go missing for years and not be noticed by its allies and enemies alike? Or I could just be reading too much into all of it. :) Either way I liked the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4590915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Hey mate, I actually would like your theory to be true. I understood that Silonius conscious was transferred to Alpharius body overriding his temporarily and thus making him see his own body, but at no time Alpharius is described seeing his own body too which made me think that they took Silonius consciousness and duplicated it rather than doing a freaky Friday body swap. Also in the scenes in the Alpha, Silonius seems to be conscious that he is Silonius and at no point that changes. Then Omegon would feel he was alone if the soul of Alpharius died, not his body. But the crucial point was in the BL live event where the author and Laurie Goulding clarified Alpharius was dead and not coming back. Hey bud, I love a good debate. Thanks for your insight, re-reading the section where we are introduced to Silonius (on the alpha battle barge), I agree, he speaks of herzog and Pech possibly being jealous. Perhaps not the thought process of a Primarch. But your theory suggests that Silonius was in effect existing in two places at the same time, but the author makes it clear that his awareness shifts from his body to Alpharius's. I think if the authors have categorically stated he is dead, it does limit the theory somewhat! The novel has peaked my interest in the imperial fists, I've always wanted some breachers, they may have to be yellow.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4590952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I think you're reading way too much into but yeah it was overall a great novel ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4590953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I think you're reading way too much into but yeah it was overall a great novel ! Did you end up reading it at least? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4590961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Yeah even with so much given away in this thread. It's one of my favorite novels for this year. John French is really good... I like his Ahriman series - especially the first one where he is broken but then reforge himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4591067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Hey Cadmus, You sure they mentioned Silonius consciousness shifts rather than being copied? It would be awesome if the switcharoo was true but I really read Silonius as being Silonius in the Alpha and Alpharius as being Alpharius in Pluto, which is the only reason he could dispatch marines with the ease he did when they were escaping the ambush. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4591480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Inversely, I think Alpharius lost to Dorn because he was in Silonius' body. He had the skill of a Primarch but not the physical strength and durability. Maybe Alpharius just lost...why the need for all these excuses? If anything, Alpharius and Omegon should each be a half primarch Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 They are actually smaller than everyone else, but alpha legion are also slightly bigger than most space marines. A and o sit just above custodes so they can do the roll play thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannicide Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 My issue with the size thing is that it doesn't work. How easy is it to pick out a 6'6 guy in a crowd of 6'2s? Guess what? It's easy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Hey Cadmus,You sure they mentioned Silonius consciousness shifts rather than being copied? It would be awesome if the switcharoo was true but I really read Silonius as being Silonius in the Alpha and Alpharius as being Alpharius in Pluto, which is the only reason he could dispatch marines with the ease he did when they were escaping the ambush. I don't think the author specifies anything in the chapter, it is merely Suilonius's first person experience of first being within his own body looking at Alpharius, and then looking back at himself. You can probably interpret what happened either way (duplication or switch) unless we start philosophising about how a consciousness can exist in two places at once. I think it comes down to the quality of the author in the end. Either he has developed a fantastically complex and mysterious plot that can be explored in future novels (the "switch theory"), or he ran out of time/pages whilst writing and rushed the ending (the "duplication theory"). Both would explain the seemingly rushed ending. I fear the later to be true, but I want to believe (and will until future novels disprove) the former. Inversely, I think Alpharius lost to Dorn because he was in Silonius' body. He had the skill of a Primarch but not the physical strength and durability. Maybe Alpharius just lost...why the need for all these excuses? If anything, Alpharius and Omegon should each be a half primarch I'm not sure he is making excuses, I don't deny that Alpharius should loose in one to one combat with Dorn. I suppose we are merely hypothesising whether there is a hidden objective/plot within the novel. We all have our theory's and opinions, perhaps I read too much into the novel, perhaps others read too little. Time will tell... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Inversely, I think Alpharius lost to Dorn because he was in Silonius' body. He had the skill of a Primarch but not the physical strength and durability.Maybe Alpharius just lost...why the need for all these excuses? If anything, Alpharius and Omegon should each be a half primarch It's not an excuse. I wouldn't of cared if Alpharius died against Dorn in his own body. (Or whatever, it was just a thought.) I wouldn't of cared if Alpharius and his twin both died to Dorn at the same time. :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 I don't think the author specifies anything in the chapter, it is merely Suilonius's first person experience of first being within his own body looking at Alpharius, and then looking back at himself. You can probably interpret what happened either way (duplication or switch) unless we start philosophising about how a consciousness can exist in two places at once. I think it comes down to the quality of the author in the end. Either he has developed a fantastically complex and mysterious plot that can be explored in future novels (the "switch theory"), or he ran out of time/pages whilst writing and rushed the ending (the "duplication theory"). Both would explain the seemingly rushed ending. I fear the later to be true, but I want to believe (and will until future novels disprove) the former. I think that's a great conclusion indeed. I do hope it's the first and they have some grand surprise ready for us later. Then again, that would go back to making the Alpha Legion so perfect that would kindle some more dislike from my part :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Well we all know Dorn died in the end versus Iron Warriors... it is what is. Accept it and move along plus you still got Omegon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 That's quite a strong counter argument, I must immediately accept your point of view. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Well we all know Dorn died in the end versus Iron Warriors... it is what is. Accept it and move along plus you still got Omegon.We all know you don't like the conspiracy theories, so you don't have to repeat it, or keep reading the thread. :P I mean, come on, if we enjoy having conversations about this, then what's so bad about doing it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 But you dont has to repeat the theories either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 What actually happened is Alpharius switched his consciousness with Dorn's at the last moment. When Alpharius was trying to talk just before dying, it was actually Dorn. Dorn has been Alpharius all along. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 See! This guy gets it. ^ XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Oh gawd I am so not happy about that !!! :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Yeah... but for real though, I do think Alpharius' consciousness has been transferred elsewhere. He let himself die too easily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tharand Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 It in no way bothers me that Alpharius bought the farm it just that the whole attack makes no sense unless there is some hidden objective we don't know about yet. I enjoy John French's novels and I want to believe he has something up his sleeve. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4592974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 BL can and does change background all the time so if Alpharius should ever resurface it's not really going to be a surprise. It did make for an epic end to the novel imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4593235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 BL can and does change background all the time so if Alpharius should ever resurface it's not really going to be a surprise. It did make for an epic end to the novel imo. There's already a 40k story where some alpha who calls himself alpharius goes up to abby cool (I think) and nukes half a chapter with shenanigans to prove he's alpharius or some such. I can't remember the name of it but someone will and point out my memorial deficiences Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4593316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Well there ya go... just goes to show you can't keep a bad man down. XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325054-praetorian-of-dorn-spoilers/page/8/#findComment-4593341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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