The humble tactical marine and his place in the meta

[disease]

Given the points reductions for veterans and assault marines, and the specialties that breachers bring (gravs and ZM usefulness) is there still a place for the humble tactical marine anymore outside of world eater rush armies?

 

 

[helterskelter]

IF armies and fury of the legion. Sweet sweet bs5.

[Terminus]

Sweet sweet BS5 sniper rounds are better, hence the question.

 

I think Fury of the Legion would be more of a threat if you could use it after moving. As it stands, it relies on infantry targets to just wander into rapid fire range without molesting the Tactical Squad. Outside of 12", this basically gives you the same amount of shots as rapid fire range at the expense of not moving. Not a bad perk, but pretty niche.

 

Outside of the World Eaters you mentioned, Sons of Horus and Night Lords can get good mileage out of large despoiler squads.

 

The other reason to bring them is their transports. If you need to mess with your drop pod assault ratio for orbital assault, the are the cheapest source of a drop pod. If you just need a couple of cheap objective-sitting units while your heavies/elites handle the wet-work, they are more survivable due to the Rhino hull and aren't as subject to Dangerous Terrain checks as assault marines. For the infiltrating Legions (Snakes and Ravens mostly), they are a way to deliver a Rhino with a multi-melta and HK missile.

[Baluc]

Depends on the Legion, WE are powerful because of their basic Tactical marines, and their ability to fight other Marines. In a more open meta, Daemons, WC&IM, SA, Mechanicum, & LA the tactical marine becomes more attractive because their is a good possibility there will be units they can engage and overwhelm or be beneath the notice of heavy hitters depending on scenerio. On LA on LA their affect is just too small to truely excel which is why those legions with rules that improve the rate of survival tend to be looked upon favourably. Looking at Iron Hand. Then you get to the legions where basic troops become more potent under specific Rites of War, so Dark Channelling Tacs are potentially capable but can lose the ability to score, Outflanking Iron Hands and SoH to improve survivability and mobility. 

 

But ultimately you are correct changes to the points cost of assault marines and Vets make Tacs mostly redundant, for those with access. 

[Charlo]

Sit on  objectives, try to catch something with Fury of the legion. Bully enemy marines if your legion rules will let you.

 

That's about it.

[helterskelter]

Thinking about it, WE vs NL, NL only need outnumber by 1 and they get all those tasty perks, yeah it's not str 5 or whatever but it's pretty much the same as long as the opponent is outnumbered. Chuck in an apothecary for FNP and Bob is indeed your uncle.

Edit And BA''s special thingy helps them too. So in terms of basic dudes, NL WE and BA come out reasonably well in combat, and IF and IH come out well in the shooting (one for giving one for taking)

[Charlo]

DG can get rad nades which is basically the same as NL/ BA too!

[disease]

I would certainly not give rad nades to a DG tac squad when we have assault marines avaliable which have move through cover, jetpacks and 'nades

[Charlo]

True, but we are talking about Tacs ;)

 

Some people don't see assault marines as fluffy for DG. Obviously they can be/ are, but I prefer the boots on the ground approach to them, as opposed to my BA who will be high flying.

[helterskelter]

Nothing wrong with throwing 19 and an apothecary in a spartan or other such high volume assault vehicle and delivering them en masse.

It's actually making me think about reevaluating my own lists, paying a point or two for the extra ccw, big blob scoring unit, that's got hitting power due to dice quantity and perks can't argue too much.

 

19 on the charge hit with 58 dice or 61 if you don't take the apothecary and have a tac instead. That's many dice with which to drown folk

[Charlo]

Nothing wrong with throwing 19 and an apothecary in a spartan or other such high volume assault vehicle and delivering them en masse.

It's actually making me think about reevaluating my own lists, paying a point or two for the extra ccw, big blob scoring unit, that's got hitting power due to dice quantity and perks can't argue too much.

 

19 on the charge hit with 58 dice or 61 if you don't take the apothecary and have a tac instead. That's many dice with which to drown folk

 

Aye and NL/ DG/ BA/ WE all do it very well! Or even IW in HoO can jump out, rapid fire then charge.

[helterskelter]

I had forgotten that IW rite! They can happily fit themselves happily in the shooting category with the fists and hands

[Captain Idaho]

Do Ultramarines with interlocking tactics not count as reasonable?

[helterskelter]

Do Ultramarines with interlocking tactics not count as reasonable?

What does that do for them? I apologise for my lack of knowledge I can't say I've so much as looked at any ultra rules.

[Charlo]

Re-rolling wound/pen rolls of 1 if another ultra unit has already shot at the target. Tacs aren't bad to apply/ benefit from this for sure.

 

They can also bring Rhinos who can mark targets for them and the army.

[Captain Idaho]

If a game has a more infantry based leaning then I'd imagine Tacticals woule be much more useful.

 

Getting nuked by Scorpios in a single turn though?

[helterskelter]

If a game has a more infantry based leaning then I'd imagine Tacticals woule be much more useful.

 

Getting nuked by Scorpios in a single turn though?

If it's lucky in its d3 roll it stands a very good chance, however not everyone takes a scorpius, so it's not like you'd encounter those or things like typhon/vindicator every game.

 

And you do still need troops whatever form they come in.

[Captain Idaho]

It's not really lucky but likely that a Scorpius gets 2-3 blasts, which is likely to ruin a Tactical squad's day.

 

Point taken that you have to take Troops though.

[Terminus]

 

If a game has a more infantry based leaning then I'd imagine Tacticals woule be much more useful.

 

Getting nuked by Scorpios in a single turn though?

If it's lucky in its d3 roll it stands a very good chance, however not everyone takes a scorpius, so it's not like you'd encounter those or things like typhon/vindicator every game.

 

And you do still need troops whatever form they come in.

I would say you have a pretty good chance that no matter who you face, there will be a phosphex battery or a whirlwind or a vindicator or a malcador or a plasma mortar or etc. That's why Rhino hulls are so valuable and why I think tacticals will still have their place despite my newfound fascination with assault squads.  At first I thought they were too cheap with the new discount, but now I see it's an appropriate price-point for them. Difficult terrain being dangerous and no hull to hide from all the aforementioned templates definitely is a balancing factor for them.

[disease]

A friend of mine swears by 10 tacs in Rhino with multi melta as his compulsory choices. He likes to run 3 squads.

[Terminus]

At that point you're bringing the Rhino more than the tactical squad. :D

[TheCelticRaven]

blood angels tacticals in drop pods are also a very good way of delivering a scary combat unit right into the opponents face without worrying about deep strike mishaps.

give them a melta pistol and they can even pop that annoying scorpius the turn they get out

[Gorgoff]

World Eaters in Drop Pods are scary too

[Brofist]

I've played against a number of competent tactical squad players, and while small blasts can hurt them, good players spacing them 2" apart mitigates quite a lot of that damage. Sure you can't always do that, but I'm finding small blasts little less useful against experienced players.

[Terminus]

Not when there's 12 of them. :D