Khulu Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 So, I am looking for either some green stuff or an alternative. I've never used any kind of putty so I'm not sure what would be best. I want to carve the inquisition symbols off the dethwatch kill team and I think I'll need something to fill some of them in (like watch captain Artemis has stuff recessed in his legs) and to cover any spots I cut too deep. What do people recommend? Liquid green stuff looks good for filling some smaller details, but having never used it I feel like I should ask first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 For a GS alternative, try ProCreate (er, might also want to add "putty" to that as a search term! ).For a better "filler putty", I would recommend Milliput Standard Yellow-grey. This is good for filling in gaps, and behaves more like traditional clay (so it's hard and not flexible when fully cured). After it has cured for a bit (leave it a couple of days to cure for best results), it cuts/carves/files/sands really well and you can get a super-smooth finish. Whilst it's freshly mixed, you can smooth it with water, just like clay.In either case, I also recommend some small size 1 Colour Shapers (in "extra firm black") to work the various putties with. As they are silicone-tipped, the putties don't stick to them (just be sure to clean them completely after each use!), although I would still advise using a little water anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4478264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulu Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'm unfamiliar with "Colour Shapers," is that a brand or the name of the tool? I picked up some milliput on my way home from work, so I'll give that a go. If I can't find an adequate tool in the short term, does it stick badly to skin? If not I might just go a tiny pit overboard and file it down. Looking at this kill team, though, a lot of these bits are going to be useful once I get the handle of using putty. I'm thinking the heavy combi-flamer (not sure what it is but that's what it looks like) will make a good grav-cannon with some leftover grav barrels from kataphron kits, and those ctan swords will make nice ccw or power weapons once I fill the swirls in! I'm also wondering how good that cloaked model would turn out as a librarian or something. I'm very excited for the conversion possibilities here! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4478485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Colour Shapers are these, and are in fact size 0 (not size 1, apologies). Working with Milliput is a different skill than GS. As I said, it's really more like a clay when you mix it up, and isn't as sticky as GS nor especially suited to doing small details like faces or Chapter badges or such (that's what GS is for really). After you mix it, wipe off your fingers with a rag and a little nail polish remover and then wash your hands - this helps to stop residue on your fingers during mixing from spoiling the project. However you can shape and carve it to produce firm edges when cured as it goes fully hard. Whilst it's still soft, you can use a little water and some sort of firm scraper/spatula to force it into the holes/gaps you want to fill and get a very reasonable finish. When its semi-cured, you can smooth it further under a warm gently-running tap too, which further reduces any final tooling required. When you come to sand it, small peices of fine 280-300 grit glass paper will get a very paintable finish, as will fine emery boards (of the better types that ladies use for their nails - just make sure you buy your own though, eh? ;) ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4478510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Note that you can also mix the Milliput with the Greenstuff to get a hybrid result; in fact you can mix virtually any epoxy based sculpting putty and expect a reasonable result. Milliput, while very hard, can also be quite brittle and a bit of Greenstuff will counter that. The ratio will vary, but I tend to stick to 50/50 or a ~25/75 mix in either direction depending on the desired result; more Milliput for harder results, more Greenstuff for added flex. The 'colour shapers' (sometimes referred to as 'clay shapers') are hands-down one of the best additions you can get if you plan on doing a fair amount of sculpting. heck, even if you don't do very much, but want the added control. They don't magically make you a better sculptor, but once you understand how/when/where to use them, they are invaluable. However, don't skimp on also getting some good stainless sculpting tools as well; any well stocked art store should carry the standard tools (buy them firsthand to get good quality points) but you might need to search for the 'colour shapers' or get them online. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4478615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Note that you can also mix the Milliput with the Greenstuff to get a hybrid result; in fact you can mix virtually any epoxy based sculpting putty and expect a reasonable result. Milliput, while very hard, can also be quite brittle and a bit of Greenstuff will counter that. The ratio will vary, but I tend to stick to 50/50 or a ~25/75 mix in either direction depending on the desired result; more Milliput for harder results, more Greenstuff for added flex. Yes, this is very true. I don't think it is super-useful for gap filling, but it very handy to know of if you want to sculpt anything. On that subject, I find that it is better to mix each putty on it's own first, and then mix all the putties together. It's also worth noting that whilst the working time may not be hugely altered, the curing time is often extended notably (and therefore it might take an extra day or such). Similarly, sometimes the adhesive part of the putty (the grey stick) can develop a brown coloured "crust" on it over time. This means it's less fresh that it should be (get it replaced if it looks like this when you buy it!), but is still fine to use. The best thing to do is cut a piece off, rinse it in some warm water to get some of the brown crust off, and then knead it until smooth and even on its own first - then mix with an equivalent amount of the yellow as normal. This avoids you getting unmixed lumps in your putty, and is a handy way of "resurrecting" putty you've had for a while. I was also going to mention the (in)famous Milliput wash technique - quick explanation here and here - but it's not strictly necessary, and I am wary that sometimes blurting out too much info in one go can overwhelm people if it's their first go with something new. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4478897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Raeven Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I always get annoyed with green stuff (the liquid kind), since it tends to shrink quite a bit while curing . I've recently used Plasto from Revell that cures like some kind of cement. No mixing required, similar to liquid green stuff. It worked allright for me, it's sturdier than the failcast I used it on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4479000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulu Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 Ok, I think I ruined some bits today, haha. I made a lot of blunders. For starters, my local hobby store only had one kind of milliput, and I'd only heard of the one kind, so I didn't think to ask about types. It's their "white" stuff that I think is meant more for ceramics. I tested it out on an old death company jump pack to just fill in the "X"es to see how it works (having a big flat surface like those top panels was nice). It was pretty hard to work with, but turned out alright. That wasn't so bad. I also picked up some army painter green stuff from the FLGS. I accidentally mixed more than I needed so I had a small lump I had to tear chunks from and then work some water into to get it useable again. I tried it out on some of watch captain artemis's bits since I wasn't going to use them, and I'm glad I wasn't going to use them. I definitely need to find some of those color shapers! The hobby store had none, so I guess I'll check a crafts store. Using a mostly dull hobby knife blade worked sometimes and just made a mess sometimes. Having messed up both shoulder pads and possibly his sword (wasn't going to use them anyway), I probably should have stopped... But fortune favors the bold, so I tried filling in his gorget markings and the "I" on the skull on his leg. I guess I'll see in the morning how they turned out, but I think it will be not too bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4479953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Milliput superfine white is fine for miniatures; it's just harder to tell if it's mixed fully and costs twice as much. For filling in small areas, colour shapers do not automatically make the job easy - in fact, I still use a blunt xacto knife for things like this. Whilst applying a sausage of putty to a panel line when freshly-mixed is best, it is also hard to control. However, you can leave it to sit for 30-40 miniatures until is has started to set a bit, and then work it and smooth it some more before it cures too much. I also avoid using water on the tool or putty until it is in place, or it makes it really tricky to get it to stick the model! As with all putties, it's best to apply it as neatly as possible to begin with (so don't use a big blob for a panel line; use a little sausage instead), and keep your fingers/tools/model as clean as you can. Next up, Green Stuff. Whilst using a little water on your tools to stop them sticking to the putty is recommended, note that unlike with Milliput, it does not mix with water at all. So don't mix it with water - just use the water to help you smooth it and that's it. Finally, a few comments on putty and its freshness/workability. Try and but your two-part putties as two separate components and store then so they don't touch; if you get Green Stuff, avoid the ribbon and get the packs that come as two separate sticks instead. It's best if you keep your putties in a little plastic box in the freezer to stop them spoiling. It's also best to really knead each half of the putty mix until soft and smooth before you mix the components together. Some putty (like Milliput) can be refreshed as I explained in my posts above, but others like GS just go too hard to be of much use after they get too old. Given what we spend on models and paints, etc, it's worth just re-buying a little fresh putty than spoiling your project with old rubbish. I hope your next try with the stuff is more successful! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4480106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gezabutla Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 When using water as a lubricant for green stuff, be mindful of water's tendency to bead and distort light. It can make it difficult to see how smooth your work actually is.Vaseline or Vicks - any petroleum jelly sort of thing - works a lot better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4480112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 With grease, do note that it's harder to clean up though, and it absolutely doesn't mix with Milliput! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4480125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulu Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 I think my work on the actual model turned out alright. I am going to need to add a little more (missed a spot on his gorget) but it's definitely workable. I'm wondering if the army painter green stuff is a little different from the regular kind, because the water did actually make a huge difference, and it looks a little darker than what I have seen pics of online. The problem I had with my knife was that depending on how wet the GS was, it either worked really well or pulled it off the model because it was sticking to the knife. I couldn't get the moisture just right, I guess. I'll definitely keep trying, though, and see whatI can do! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4480483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscuzzy Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 For hard model surfacing, i.e. if you have flat plate that you filled and smoothed, single-part paste putty, like those in the toothpaste tubes may be what you might be looking for. Apply, and when cured, just sand. Sanding sticks, sanding pads etc. can be use to smoothen out the surface. A key difference in the types of putties is that the 2-part putties are great as bodied forms, as in they can be used to sculpt, but they don't tend to surface as fine as the pastes types. I personally use Tamiya Fine, which is a white paste, which can be thinned down using Tamiya Thin Cement (which acts like a solvent). Hardens to a surface similar to polystyrene but a little bit more brittle, but great for surfacing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4480913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 If you want one of the best lubricants that tends to stay put but also cleans up easy, use spit errr... saliva. Yeah, saliva, that sounds a bit more sophisticated. And before someone says it, they are correct; do not lick your tools for this method, since epoxies have carcinogenic substances in them. But then again, almost everything manufactured with some kind of coating does too. But I digress... simply lick the back or side of your hand, or put a bit of saliva on a bottle cap or something. To some it might seem gross, but really it's probably cleaner then touching a public door handle. It works so well because it's basically 99% water, but it has just enough enzymes in it to make it have a touch of viscosity and give it a little 'sticking power'. Simply touch the tool to the saliva and get to work, re-touching the tool whenever it needs it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4481175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skits Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Seconding the saliva thing! Can't get much cheaper than free, and it works surprisingly well. As for tools, personally I mostly just use an old crochet needle and a sewing pin for fine details. Using the back of your fingernail can also work rather well to smooth things out (as long as said fingernail is damp with either water/saliva first!). I really, really recommend using a greenstuff/milliput mix. I find it a lot easier to work with than straight milliput (superfine white is fine to use, I use it myself), and it dries pretty much rock-solid, which makes both carving it with a knife/scalpel and sanding it much easier than trying to do so with straight greenstuff. I find plain greenstuff to be kind of rubbery when it dries, which can make carving/sanding awkward. And yeah, remember you can carve it once it's dried! Carving can really help smooth out rough patches and refine shapes, and give you some nice edges as well. If you're trying to do detail work, I also recommend working in layers/sections. Yeah, it takes a lot longer since you have to let each part dry before putting on the next, but it saves a lot of aggravation since it significantly reduces the instances of accidentally smushing previous work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4483328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Oh, the dread, curse inducing, finger smudge of work well done. Yep, it's maddening. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4483490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulu Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 Yeah, when I tried to sand my green stuff, some of it just crumbled and came off the model. I will try again with the milliput, which has so far held up just fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325108-green-stuff-options/#findComment-4484809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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