How to understand panting?

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

Ok so the question is kind of complicated.

 

Let's take Draznicht, Chosen Champion from the DV set.

 

It seems like at each level of attaching him together you cover up detail. Like beneath his backpack there are some cords to his power armor. Or if you put his hand on you cover up some of his breast plate.

 

What is the proper practice for something such as this? Do you paint the items first and then put them together? I can't see how you would get a layer of paint in there other wise.

[Razblood]

There are two schools of thought on this.

 

1. If any part of the assembly hides any detailed part of the mini then leave unassembled until after painting.

 

2. Fully assemble mini as any parts you can't see don't matter.

 

I swing between both camps, but have always favoured the former despite it making some minis a lot more time consuming. 

 

In the end though it's personal choice, some people just cant deal with the knowledge that the entire mini isn't painted and some are happy as long as all visible areas are done.

[Captain Titus]

If you want all of these features to be painted, then as Razblood said, assemble parts of the miniature which don't cover details, then paint and attach the rest.

Personally, I only do this for Characters and Elites, the normal rank and file marines don't really need this to achieve tabletop standard.

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

Thanks, that makes sense as well. I'm probably leaning towards the former as well I think. I'm cutting everything out as I'm still waiting on my base black to get here.

[Guiltysparc]

I had always assembled before painting and then on my 30k world eaters I couldn't do that because the white parts got primed white and I wanted to prime everything else black, now that I have gotten used to painting then assembling I don't think I can go back.

[Soldier of Dorn]

I always assemble before painting, always and completely (well, except for the occasional thing like a Castraferrum Dreadnought arm, certain tank hatches and turrets, things that I'd like to be able to move after painting.)

 

While I understand the advantages of being able to paint every single exposed part of the miniature, exposed doesn't always mean visible, and I'm willing to accept a little difficulty in highlighting certain parts (that on the whole will usually be shadowed anyway, so highlighting won't do much) in favor of a quicker turnaround. Perhaps I'd be willing to take my time if I was a faster painter capable of cranking them out more quickly, but I'm not. I'm a pretty slow painter, which would be acceptable if I was skilled, but I'm not that either. I'm solidly mediocre in all aspects. But I do prefer having it all in one solid piece, so I don't lose track of any bits. Feels more convenient to me.

 

I also prime everything grey now, even stuff that will be white. Maybe I'm just weird? Who knows...

[MagicMan]

I've tried both, and at the moment im sitting solidly in the "assemble first" camp.

 

I'd find myself finishing most of a mini, then losing interest in the parts that werent stuck on and never finishing it.

 

And to be honest, you cant see the parts you painted underneath the parts you stick on anyway.

 

Im quite a slow painter, so for me the speed was important in completely assembling first.

[Isolia]

I also usually assemble troops and paint them afterwards, my armies being the Imperial Guarda Militarum and the sisters of battle (the latter being annoying to post-glue since they are metal minis, and super glue has a tendency to fog nearby areas and ruin the paint ).

The trick is also to try to build models with access to their details, or when a closed pose is chosen, to keep it as closed as possible so the black undercoat acts as the shade. I tried doing the paint on some guards before assembly but when you need six squads of ten it's frustrating, I only paint my more unique scion additions like that now .

 

 

For characters, tanks, flyers , imperial knights I paint and assemble in parallel, so that I can have a look at where I'm going but not struggle with the details that would pop out on a big build.

 

In many cases simply not gluing the base saves most of the trouble because unpainted zones between legs of troopers pop out more than a shaded armpit or chest part with an arm covering it .

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Since I've switched over to airbrushing most of my mini's I've found painting first then assembling is the way to go. Hand brushing is a lot more time consuming and I can see how painting then building could be even more of a painstaking process.

[Major_Gilbear]

I assemble the models as far as I can and still reach all the areas with a brush. I try and keep the number of separate [parts to a minimum though - so if I can glue an arm to a bolter rather than the torso to get better access to the chest eagle, then that's what I do.

 

Then I finish assembling them after painting (and then I might have a few final paint touch-ups around joins etc afterwards).

 

Finally, I pin the model to their base, which I also paint separately (and this makes it easy to do a big batch of bases in one go).

 

In fact, I would always suggest that painting a model off their base makes the task much easier! Doing this lets you get right under the model, reaching areas that you might not get to from above (but which inevitably you can see when the model is finished). If you think of the base on the model as being a bit like one of those plastic neck cones the Vet puts on your dog, then you'll quickly understand why leaving it off is helpful for painting. ;)

 

I do accept that (painting off the base notwithstanding) assembling-painting or painting-assembling is a matter of preference.

 

I also understand the line of thought that suggests: if you can't get to it, you can't see it, so why paint it anyway? In my experience however, there are *always* areas you can see but can't reach, and so I feel happier doing it my way. Worth noting that I use a grey primer too - it helps to keep my colours brighter than using black, but means that if I *do* miss any spots, they don't show up like white can (because the grey in the shadows is neutral and doesn't therefore draw attention).

 

Some examples of my works-in-progress to show my method:

 

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp154/MajorGilbear/Dark%20Angels%20Plog/Dark%20Angels%20WIP%201_zpsf8jcfikv.jpg

 

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp154/MajorGilbear/Dark%20Angels%20Plog/WIP3%20Tac%20Squad%201_zps8rbscsht.jpg

 

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp154/MajorGilbear/Dark%20Angels%20Plog/DA%20Tac%20Squad%201%202_zpsivrk0rdc.jpg

[MagicMan]

Great looking DA!!

 

 

Its worth noting that you will get a superior finished product if you make sure you can access all areas like Major Gilbear above, but it can take more time, and it can also make keeping the model consistent difficult sometimes.

 

Especially if you freestyle alot when mixing paints like me, you can end up with two slightly different coloured parts stuck together.

[Brother Nihm]

From personal experience.

If you decide to paint the mini in parts, paint from the inside to the outside - hardest to reach areas first, with focus on details and then on the larger sections.

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

 

 

 

What's that your using to hold your minis in position

[Magos Takatus]

From personal experience.

If you decide to paint the mini in parts, paint from the inside to the outside - hardest to reach areas first, with focus on details and then on the larger sections.

I have been taking this approach with my Skitarii recently. I paint the areas that will get obscured first (under the cloaks,the chest, behind the weapons/arms). This makes it so that I can paint the model in as few separate parts as possible but also retain access to obscured detail as much as possible. It would be very hard to paint the metal trim to the guns with the arms and guns fixed to the model for example yet it would still be visible from certain angles.

 

When it comes to the coats I paint them in the base colour, apply a wash and then assemble parts so that it can be highlighted as a single section.

 

I would say it really depends on the model to how far you go in either direction of assembling or painting first. With the model you suggested I would leave off the arm and backpack until I've painted under there. :)

[Major_Gilbear]

 

 

 

What's that your using to hold your minis in position

 

They are stainless steel locking Hemostatic clamps with a curved tip.

 

Although designed/intended as medical tools, you can buy much cheaper non-sterile versions for all sorts of hobby applications (apparently they are used a lot by fly fishers to make their lures).

 

I normally buy them from either eBay or Amazon, and the quality is rather varied (even within the same batch of clamps!). Of course, this is another reason why they are cheaper, and it makes little/no difference to me as a hobbyist.

 

An example on Amazon here for you.

 

 

Note that I drill and glue brass wire pins into my models - not only to hold them, but also to ensure that the joints are strong (force of habit for me, as I had/still have a vast amount of metal models, and pinning the joints on these is nearly mandatory if you want them to stay together).

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

 

 

 

 

What's that your using to hold your minis in position

They are stainless steel locking Hemostatic clamps with a curved tip.

 

Although designed/intended as medical tools, you can buy much cheaper non-sterile versions for all sorts of hobby applications (apparently they are used a lot by fly fishers to make their lures).

 

I normally buy them from either eBay or Amazon, and the quality is rather varied (even within the same batch of clamps!). Of course, this is another reason why they are cheaper, and it makes little/no difference to me as a hobbyist.

 

An example on Amazon here for you.

 

 

Note that I drill and glue brass wire pins into my models - not only to hold them, but also to ensure that the joints are strong (force of habit for me, as I had/still have a vast amount of metal models, and pinning the joints on these is nearly mandatory if you want them to stay together).

Aha ok , the pins were what I was talking about tryin to figure out the best way to spray the primer on them / post them up to dry while I work on another

[BrotherJim]

How to understand painting?

 

 

Practice practice practice...

 

 

 

When I started out it drove me mad knowing those bits weren't painted back in there. But you'll grow out of it; or get lazy. Really just keep painting and try to spend as much time as you like on any one thing. Practice is practice.

[Major_Gilbear]

How to understand painting?

 

Practice practice practice...

 

I don't disagree that practice is very helpful, but patience generally advances your skills faster when it comes to delicate work like painting (in my experience, of course!)  ;)

[Indefragable]

Despite playing for 2 years, I am just now really getting to painting. 

 

I have like 50 things that are half done, but I'm ok with it since I get to try my hand at different colors and understand the principles of shading and how to layer different colors. I'm still very much in the "paint by numbers" stage, but I am sloooooowly getting the hang of it.

 

The single biggest thing I have learned is to not worry about the "corners".

 

What I mean by "corners" is that you can cover a lot of things up with a second coat. For example, take a Tactical Marine. You paint the armor color A and the aquila on the chest color B. At first, I would take for-ev-er to do the aquila since I was terrified of getting color B on the armor. What I've learned is to be careful, but don't fret too much about it. You can (and probably should be anyways) add another coat or some quick strokes of color A back on the power armor to cover over color B that bleeds. This has helped me mentally more than anything since it's freed me up to get things done as opposed to putting things off because I take 1hr to do one model.

[BrotherJim]

 

 

Practice patience persistently :D the three P's of perfect painting. :D

[MagicMan]

How to understand painting?

Practice practice practice...

I don't disagree that practice is very helpful, but patience generally advances your skills faster when it comes to delicate work like painting (in my experience, of course!)

And learning from others.

Speaking of which, I dont suppose you've ever posted a tutorial for your plasma weapons shown above? They are delicious.

[Major_Gilbear]

[...] patience generally advances your skills faster when it comes to delicate work like painting

And learning from others.

Absolutely!

I learned a lot from others myself, including that taking your time is key to learning a new skill; practising that new skill is what allows you to do it more quickly.

Still, if you are prepared to take your time getting something right, you'd be surprised what you find out you can do. :)

Speaking of which, I dont suppose you've ever posted a tutorial for your plasma weapons shown above? They are delicious.

Thank you. :)

I don't have a tutorial, but as it's a Dark Angels army I am working on, it's only a matter of time before I paint more!

In the meantime, I can explain it pretty quickly:

- Start with a solid white

- Add a hint of turquoise to the white, and highlight some of the plasma coils.

- Keep adding more turquoise and applying successively smaller highlights in this way.

- Finally, add a little blue paint/ink to the turquoise, and do some final highlights.

- You can finish the look by making a glaze of turquoise paint (or ink) and applying it carefully to the darker areas; doing this helps the white around the perimeter stand out more by enhancing the contrast between it and the blues.

And that's it - you are just "highlighting" with progressively darker colours instead of progressively lighter ones like you normally would.

The effect is a bit lost on these particular weapons as the coils and the gaps between them are fairly even, thus lessening the final result a bit (i.e., it's hard to tell if I've shaded the recesses, or highlighted the coils, or what). It does work well in general though, and should look better on something like Volkite weapons for example.

[Teetengee]

If I want it to look the best (which is not necessary with everything, at which point assemble first is usually optimal), I will assemble to the point that I can reach all the parts of each chunk of the model. Then I will do painting up to the point of washes. When I get to washes, I make a decision based on the model to see if the wash will reveal assembly lines if I wash before completing assembly. If it will, I finish assembly and wash (for shading) and highlight from there. If not, I will continue to leave unassembled.

Bases I usually do pretty simply and after everything else, though I am careful to not get base stuff on the finished model.

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

Does anyone have something simple you can get at most regular stores that I can use to hold but not obscure parts of the model while I prime with the can? I love those clamps from above, just don't know where I'd get something ( funny there is a ACE right next door not open yet) I would want something that holds it but doesn't leave indentations on the model.

 

I was thinking of a bent paper clip into a piece that won't show

 

Or some clips the wooden ones or plastic can't think of their name for some reason.

[Magos Takatus]

[...] patience generally advances your skills faster when it comes to delicate work like painting

And learning from others.

Absolutely!

I learned a lot from others myself, including that taking your time is key to learning a new skill; practising that new skill is what allows you to do it more quickly.

Still, if you are prepared to take your time getting something right, you'd be surprised what you find out you can do.

Speaking of which, I dont suppose you've ever posted a tutorial for your plasma weapons shown above? They are delicious.

Thank you.

I don't have a tutorial, but as it's a Dark Angels army I am working on, it's only a matter of time before I paint more!

In the meantime, I can explain it pretty quickly:

- Start with a solid white

- Add a hint of turquoise to the white, and highlight some of the plasma coils.

- Keep adding more turquoise and applying successively smaller highlights in this way.

- Finally, add a little blue paint/ink to the turquoise, and do some final highlights.

- You can finish the look by making a glaze of turquoise paint (or ink) and applying it carefully to the darker areas; doing this helps the white around the perimeter stand out more by enhancing the contrast between it and the blues.

And that's it - you are just "highlighting" with progressively darker colours instead of progressively lighter ones like you normally would.

The effect is a bit lost on these particular weapons as the coils and the gaps between them are fairly even, thus lessening the final result a bit (i.e., it's hard to tell if I've shaded the recesses, or highlighted the coils, or what). It does work well in general though, and should look better on something like Volkite weapons for example.

Have you kept the brighter colours on the inside of the coils? I do find that looks better but takes some practice. There's loads of Skitarii and Cult Mechanical models begging to be painted using that method. :)