Plasma Pistols... ever worth it?

[exsanguis]

Due to their size, I'd even be happy if they were S5 or 6 AP2 with no Get's Hot! rule. At 10 points each I'd at least consider something like that, especially for a character.

Basically it becomes a ranged power axe...

The problem would be that what you described is a better version of an archaeotec pistol

True, though I'm also thinking in the context of 40k, where there are no Archeotech Pistols (you damned heretic!).

[Newtoncain]

PF vs PP, both cost 15 in HH, 25 vs 15 in 40k.  Easy choice.

[helterskelter]

If the plasma pistols were in the hands of someone with bs5 and you attached a master of signal to make them bs 6 they'd be a lot safer, however that would be a particularly specialised unit. Also works with combi plasma seekers.

[Captain Idaho]

To be honest, very few plasma weapons kill or wound their owners in Heresy armies. You have to roll two 1s in a row generally. I think most players who don't take plasma do so because they don't like the cost.

 

I like them on a character but will happily cut the fat off of a list by dropping one.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

My assault heavy army gets a lot of use out of them and they are great for cracking open light transports so I can get to the squishy stuff inside. I take them for my Templar Brethren... Not too worried about rolling double ones... Yeah sure it can and does happen but it's very rare. The range coming out of a land raider is around 24"... Not shabby.

[AfroCampbell]

My assault heavy army gets a lot of use out of them and they are great for cracking open light transports so I can get to the squishy stuff inside. I take them for my Templar Brethren... Not too worried about rolling double ones... Yeah sure it can and does happen but it's very rare. The range coming out of a land raider is around 24"... Not shabby.

 

Actually that is not a bad plan.... hmmm you have inspired me.... it certainly would add to the deathstar appropriately.... the only problem is that these guys cannot kill Termies, and therefore its a bit of a mismatch as i feel PPs are best for termie/2+ armour popping.

[Charlo]

They're good for maybe head shotting a sergeant in AA pre charge too.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Any time an enemy terminator is not rolling at 2+ armor save you are doing something right.

 

In regards to TB versus terminators they have Sigismund and often a Centurion for the AP2 melee attacks.

[Gorgoff]

Is your Meta so Terminators heavy? I don't see them at all.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Versus other 30k armies it is.

[Gorgoff]

Hm. I only play against 30k and just one uses Terminators on a regular basis. I think they're pretty pathetic compared to other units. Yeah, my Tyrant Siege Terminators are awesome, but the vanilla ones are lame in my book.

[TheCelticRaven]

as a blood angel i would never take a plasma pistol over the good o'l melta pistol.

besides i have drop pods to get me close enough

[Terminus]

Hm. I only play against 30k and just one uses Terminators on a regular basis. I think they're pretty pathetic compared to other units. Yeah, my Tyrant Siege Terminators are awesome, but the vanilla ones are lame in my book.

You and your friends are crazy.  Terminators are one of the best units in 30K, period. 

[Gorgoff]

 

Hm. I only play against 30k and just one uses Terminators on a regular basis. I think they're pretty pathetic compared to other units. Yeah, my Tyrant Siege Terminators are awesome, but the vanilla ones are lame in my book.

 

You and your friends are crazy.  Terminators are one of the best units in 30K, period.

The special ones, yes. Like I said, I use Tyrants and love them, but regular Terminators are crap in my humble oppinion.

Sometimes my opponents use them (thought about it and remembered several occasions in which I faced them), but apart from the named ones I never thought 'Ouw nooooo Terminators'.

But I am willing to learn.

Teach me. ;)

[Terminus]

Let's put it this way, everyone loves Seekers. Seekers are 155 points for 5 guys, they pay 10 points for a combi-weapon. Regular terminators are 175 points for 5 guys, they pay 12 points for a combi-weapon and a power fist. Terminators can teleport without transport depending on Legion or Rite to deliver those combi-weapons, and their 4++ save and power fists makes them a threat to even Primarchs and elite deathstars.  The 2+ armor save in invaluable (there is a reason artificer sgts are practically mandatory), because it lets them ignore the most common and deadly infantry-destroying weapons like Whirlwinds and Phosphex batteries.  Power armored infantry out in the open is essentially fodder that does their job and dies.  Terminators are awesome, generic or otherwise.

 

For me, grunt choices rank like this:

Veterans (here by virtue of marksmen and their very low cost, can be threat in melee or range, power armored fodder)

Terminator Squads (lethal in melee and for one turn at range, survivable, bulky both a drawback and a benefit depending on Legion)

Tactical Support Squads (lethal at range while they survive, crumble in melee, power armored fodder)

Assault Marines (mobile, good in melee, competent troop choice that can fill compulsory slots, bulky, power armored fodder)

Seekers (special rounds, BS5 preferred enemy plasma fire for a turn, power armored fodder)

Breacher Marines (the troop choice for Zone Mortalis or rule of cool)

Tactical Marines (super entry level, can be better than above depending on Legion)

Scouts (leaveH)

[Guiltysparc]

I shot Khârn's plasma pistol in the first game i used him.  The gets hot wound was the only wound he took in that game.  I have never shot it since.

[adamantium_wang]

The first time I fired Khârn's plasma pistol was back in 2Ed and it exploded in his hand. He walked out of the seething ball of plasma unscathed and spent the rest of the game being mildly annoyed that he was down an attack in assault. Sadly nothing he has done since has been as metal as that.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It's all about the metal !

[Charlo]

I do find that Khârn is often mildly annoyed.

[Gorgoff]

Let's put it this way, everyone loves Seekers. Seekers are 155 points for 5 guys, they pay 10 points for a combi-weapon. Regular terminators are 175 points for 5 guys, they pay 12 points for a combi-weapon and a power fist. Terminators can teleport without transport depending on Legion or Rite to deliver those combi-weapons, and their 4++ save and power fists makes them a threat to even Primarchs and elite deathstars.  The 2+ armor save in invaluable (there is a reason artificer sgts are practically mandatory), because it lets them ignore the most common and deadly infantry-destroying weapons like Whirlwinds and Phosphex batteries.  Power armored infantry out in the open is essentially fodder that does their job and dies.  Terminators are awesome, generic or otherwise.

 

For me, grunt choices rank like this:

Veterans (here by virtue of marksmen and their very low cost, can be threat in melee or range, power armored fodder)

Terminator Squads (lethal in melee and for one turn at range, survivable, bulky both a drawback and a benefit depending on Legion)

Tactical Support Squads (lethal at range while they survive, crumble in melee, power armored fodder)

Assault Marines (mobile, good in melee, competent troop choice that can fill compulsory slots, bulky, power armored fodder)

Seekers (special rounds, BS5 preferred enemy plasma fire for a turn, power armored fodder)

Breacher Marines (the troop choice for Zone Mortalis or rule of cool)

Tactical Marines (super entry level, can be better than above depending on Legion)

Scouts (leaveH)

First of all I have to thank you for your input I really appreciate that.

Now let's see.

I don't now anyone with Seeker either :) They may come to my army but for now noone seems to like them. An immobile unit with 24" range depends on havinging either infiltrate or scout. Strangely enough I do have two Alpha Legions as my regular opponents but neither of them want them. Don't now why but I won't talk them into that. ;)

Again I played against and with Terminators yesterday and still I don't get it. They are slow so you have to deliver them somehow. And then they don't hit so hard as they points cost suggest. As you said I would alway prefer a unit of Veterans. Way cheaper, more bodys and almost same equipment.

As a matter of fact in my meta Terminators (the regular ones) are seens as one of the worse unit in the whole HH.

[Brofist]

If I was running terminator troops I'd probably stick with Tarteros for the added mobility.

[Terminus]

That's a tough call, the extra pip on the invulnerable makes a big difference.  Terminators as troops would work in orbital assault or with transponders. I would just drop 5-man squads of Cataphractii on objectives and near soft targets to nuke them with combi-weapons, then soaking enemy fire with 2+/4++ and threatening 6"+2d6" with a whole lot of S8 AP2.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think cat armor is way better than tart armor. 4++ versus 5++ almost doubles the number of saves you'll make.

[Gorgoff]

I think cat armor is way better than tart armor. 4++ versus 5++ almost doubles the number of saves you'll make.

Depends on what you want to do with them.

Tartaros is for CC and Cats are for shooting.

[Slips]

No way, a 4++ is ALWAYS better than a 5++ regardless of situation.

 

The only thing Tartaros is better at than Cata is: Running and Overwatch. You aren't sweeping if you aren't winning combat and a weaker invulnerable save means its less likely to occur in Termy vs Termy