The aesthetics of Chaos Space Marines

[Carrack]

Personally, I like the bling. I think it shows the selfish character of CSM. While loyalist marines have sacrificed their humanity in order to protect mankind, and are willing to sacrifice their very lives, if necessary, chaos marines are traveling individual paths to power, glory, immortality, or some other selfish goal. The armor of both should reflect this. Loyalist armor should be bare, functional armor that reflects the selflessness of its wearer (except for officers). While chaos armor should boast of wealth accumulated from plundering worlds, and personal embellishments that individualize it, in a reflection of the individual nature of its wearer.

[Brother Aiwass]

 chaos marines are traveling individual paths to power, glory, immortality, or some other selfish goal.

Maybe not. Maybe CSM are in a crusade to destroy the Empire they've bleed to build ;)

[Wayniac]

chaos marines are traveling individual paths to power, glory, immortality, or some other selfish goal.

Maybe not. Maybe CSM are in a crusade to destroy the Empire they've bleed to build

And maybe it's a crusade devoid of colour. A Black Crusade, perhaps? :p

[Brother Aiwass]

Rainbow Crusade^TM

[Teetengee]

Rainbow Crusade^TM

That would explain a certain RT era image Aquilianus might recongize. ;)

[Excessus]

Rainbow Crusade^TM

Only Thousand Sons are fabulous enough for a Rainbow Crusade^TM...

 

http://img01.deviantart.net/221b/i/2015/362/7/7/fabulous_thousand_sons_by_vangarshriek-d9lu22w.jpg

 

 

The raptor kit...yeah. I've used almost every single part of that kit as bits for other models. I don't have a single raptor model in my army...

[Plaguecaster]

It just would be nice if there was an option for the hideous mutated look that the Chosen pull off nicely like an actual kit as you can only carve up those annoying starter set models so many times as they have barely any customisation. Hell just one multi part kit like and I'd be a happy person as I want my Chaos marines to be as mutated and warped by the dark powers they have been serving in the eye of Terror which I always figured was worse than hell with no one safe from the gods corrupting touch even their own servants, the whole warped by chaos image which was portrayed a lot in the fluff was why I picked Chaos in the first place

[Xenith]

Another thing I feel is that Chaos should not IMHO look "blinged out" by default.  There are too many icons/designs/scraps on a lot of the models, and while I feel this aesthetic can be optional (e.g. for Champions and the like) rank and file guys shouldn't have so much beyond like a star of chaos or equivalent somewhere.

 

By "Rank and File" you mean 10,000 year old, prideful, semi immortal gods of war designed to be the ultimate fighting machines and now worshipping or enslaved to the dark gods who reward them with power, wanted to not? That exist in a land where thought and will become manifest, where that lucky token probably actually can and will save your life?

[Evil Eye]

I personally love all the aesthetics that Chaos has had over the years, from the really old Gigeresque biomechanical looking armour to the plainer, more functional looking CSM box and its companions, to the incredibly baroque, organic looking new miniatures. In fact, in general I'd say the most important element of the Chaos design aesthetic is that there is no singular design aesthetic- unlike, say, the Tyranids, who have a very strong and determined "look" to the point where some of their older models look very very strange next to their modern counterparts, Chaos can get away with basically anything, provided it looks good.

 

If I were designing a new range of Chaos miniatures I'd want there to be a huge amount of diversity in the range. Backpacks would resemble everything from mildly corrupted Imperial backpacks, to the more traditional "vents on fins" backpacks, to the multi-vented and baroque power plants of the new Chosen, to things completely off the wall like pulsating, ribbed organic generators and backpacks with intricate sculpted friezes upon them. Weapons would be many and varied, with ancient marks of bolter and things like the old, "cone-barrelled" flamers. Armour designs would incorporate multiple models of power armour, along with of course completely original designs. A lot of the armour designs would depend on the particular dedication of the Marines in question.

 

Khorne stuff would look great with the aesthetics of the AoS Khorne models. There's a reason that the kits have been really popular with 40K Khorne players- they have a brutal, intimidating look about them, with just the right amount of spikes and jagged edges.

 

Slaanesh has the advantage of being a fairly multi-faceted god (he represents everything from greed to gluttony to lust to vanity) and that would work well with the models as well. On the one hand you could go for the more "elegant and artistic" angle and give Slaanesh marines very ornate, classical or gothic looking armour with scalloped edges, fluted details and intricate filigree. On the other hand you could go for the more base, brutal, frightening aspect of excess, and go for a quasi-BDSM/"sense freak" look, with spikes and studs, flayed skin, needles, leather straps, chains and all sorts of other things. On the...third hand (fitting for Slaanesh) you could theoretically go for a semi-organic biomechanical look, resembling amongst other things HR Giger's art, the fantastic sculpt work on Kenner's Aliens figures, and  the like. Tubes, domes, ribs and vents would all work well for Slaanesh.

 

Nurgle is fairly simple to do, and IMO GW knows how to do Nurgle well, which makes me surprised they haven't done more Nurgle 40K stuff. Of course it doesn't have to be all swollen stomachs and spilling innards; a theoretical plastic Plague Marine kit could have everything from scaly, scab-encrusted skin to fungal growths and grisly tumours. The armour itself should be fairly plain, with little in the way of ornamentation.

 

Tzeentch is fairly difficult. Obviously there's the Egyptian angle that the Thousand Sons have but not every Tzeentch army is descended from them. Obviously fire is a key element of Tzeentch, as are his many runes and symbols. Armour coated in tiny hieroglyphs and decorated with gems, geometric shapes and surreal designs seems like the way to go.

[Slave to Darkness]

I can't find it right now but there's an old White Dwarf cover from the RT days that has a Chaos Renegade on it, and his armor looks cool (a bit thin though) except that he has a weird tentacle thing for his arm (you've likely seen it before). I don't mind that armor style, but not the obvious mutation.

This one?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MtoGGS9jjT8/Uw4pTs-VlzI/AAAAAAAAKuM/Tak3LcqPGvU/s1600/wd-99.jpg

 

Used to have that mini back in the day

[Brother Aiwass]

The backpack looks identical to the Space Crusade chaos warriors.

[Slave to Darkness]

The backpack looks identical to the Space Crusade chaos warriors.

God I miss those packs. I have one thats slightly older, same style but fatter, a tad more chaosy. Im going to use it on the first lord I make with any updated kits. Keep the oldschool vibe goin with the new.

 

Actually as I have bits spanning the entire range from 1st ed up to current bits I cant wait to mix it all up with whats coming next for a truley chaotic force. Throw in some plastic heresy bits and Ill have the world at my fingertips... Muahahahahahaha.

 

Persionally I think the Space Crusade Chaos marines look would be perfect, it would blend in ok with an army from any era of chaos minis. Might hunt a few down and convert them.

[Brother Aiwass]

 

The backpack looks identical to the Space Crusade chaos warriors.

God I miss those packs. I have one thats slightly older, same style but fatter, a tad more chaosy. Im going to use it on the first lord I make with any updated kits. Keep the oldschool vibe goin with the new.

 

Actually as I have bits spanning the entire range from 1st ed up to current bits I cant wait to mix it all up with whats coming next for a truley chaotic force. Throw in some plastic heresy bits and Ill have the world at my fingertips... Muahahahahahaha.

 

Persionally I think the Space Crusade Chaos marines look would be perfect, it would blend in ok with an army from any era of chaos minis. Might hunt a few down and convert them.

 

Me too bud, I miss them a lot. I think their aesthetics was perfect; I was inducted for chaos in that era, with that game. I miss them a lot, and what annoys me the most is that I have two SC boxes, and both missing the chaos warriors (only one dread remains) :(

[Slave to Darkness]

Same. Space Crusade groomed me for the awrsomeness that is Chaos, when I saw the RoC books I literally sold my soul to the Dark gods. I would love it if Chaos took more from the past classics. *gazes lovingly at the D100 charts in the oldbooks*

[Subtle Discord]

*Swoons* yeah, D100 and D1000 charts... with virtually any outcome you could think of. RoC was the point of no return for me as well. It would never work today; they were two tombs the size of the main rule book of today, after all. But there's sooo much there to tap into for revitalization and inspiration. I still flip through them regularly today.

[MaliGn]

I have a few old space Crusade monopose Marines still kicking around. They are pretty offensively covered in paint though. My sixteen year old self didn't do much more to them than slather them in an old chaos black though, so they may be salvageable.

 

Remind me, what's best to use for stripping paint off plastic models again? It's been a while!

[Brother Aiwass]

I use 96º alcohol. About half an hour (or a day) in it and and old toothbrush. Not pretty but do the work. I wouldn't let them too much time in alcohol as the plastic is not the same quality and I won't risk them -even probably alcohol does nothing to them.

 

P.S

 

Maybe you want to recast them after cleaning or sending them to me? :D

[Slave to Darkness]

For nostalgas sake.

http://i42.tinypic.com/dyt7w0.jpg

:wub:

I second the idea of recasts. :lol:

[MaliGn]

There's loads on eBay right now! Casting is beyond me at present.

[Slave to Darkness]

But typically Im broke when these things are on ebay. :lol:

As soon as I get cash I bet they become as rare as loyal Dark Angels.

[Brother Aiwass]

There's loads on eBay right now! Casting is beyond me at present.

Damn you! You made me check. I ended buying 5 of them. THANK YOU

But typically Im broke when these things are on ebay.

As soon as I get cash I bet they become as rare as loyal Dark Angels.

lol'd that's gold :lol:

[Midwest]

Oh, to add another bit I had wanted to mention. Given the modular nature, wide variety, and the very creative assembly of many of GW's recent kits, it wouldn't be a stretch to get kits that offer many extra heads, front torso options, shoulder pads (almost guaranteed, at minimum, really), and good selection of other modular bits that can be switched and swapped during the build to have the model swing from less warp-touched to very warped-touched. If they made the 'shin armour' area interchangeable along with the other mentioned bits you could completely transform the look of the base Marine model right from the box. Even the modular nature of some of their recent weapons shows how they could accommodate swap'able (or even just extra) bits to change them from 'common' Renegade/Chaos to completely possessed/infested by the warp. Will they? Obviously I have no idea. But they've shown recently that they can do it, and I guy can hope, can't he?

Apologies for the threadomancy, but this topic is like my biggest pet peeve with GW and 40k.

 

My personal opinion is that CSM have suffered a lot from the move to the plastic era. I say that in the sense that, if you look at the RT or 2nd edition metals, having one-piece metals allows for a lot of design options that you can't do if the parts need to be separable and interchangeable - things like re-breathers or subtle but effective differences in body proportions.

 

Having said that, the modularity and subsequent compatibility with the loyalist kits does make it easier to tailor them to fit your individual aesthetic. Personally, I don't care for the "organic" look of a lot of the most recent CSM stuff, like the Dread replacement or the walker war machines. And I don't like how chunky and often overly "soft" the metal trim is on their plastic kits (esp the shelving on the Termie legs' knee joints). My personal favorite range was the 6 or 7 basic CSMs from 2nd edition (metal one-piece bodies, plastic arms and shoulder pads) - I wish they could have added more models to that range.

 

 

There's no need to put so much stuff on the basic CSM sprue if they just make a separate Chosen kit that has all the gribbly stuff (and maybe a Havoc kit that's a bit Iron Warrior-ish).

I mean, people already use the Possessed kit to make the current CSM models look more mutated. Loyalist players also do the same with leftover Sternguard or Death Company bits for extra bling.

That's the other big issue with the plastic-era CSM range, the lack of kits.

 

For non-cult units, you have the basic CSM squad (i.e. Chaos Tacticals), Terminators, Bikers, and Raptors (i.e. Assault). Two of the cult units, as well as the Havocs, are just add-ons for the basic CSM plastics. They tend to update existing stuff rather than expand upon it, and for an army range that kinda depends on max bitz and options, it'd be nice if they could get more of the loyalist treatment.

 

Looking at loyalists, right off the top of my head, they have two elite kits, two Termie kits, a command squad, a dev kit, bike squad, assault bike, several Land Speeders, tons of vehicle variants (both ground and fliers), upgrade kits for four chapters, a full box upgrade kit for Black Templars, several Chapter-specific plastic sets (DA Vets, BA Death Company, SW Stormwolf), etc. Not to mention several related kits with the Deathwatch and Grey Knights. Even a vehicle kit for loyalists can end up providing one or two extra head/chest options, if nothing else.

 

You wouldn't really need fiddly or overly-complicated 300 piece modular kits if you just had more unit kits available for Chaos:

 

CSM Tacticals

CSM Chosen

CSM Possessed (re-designed to have more options that could be worked into other kits rather than everything being so blantantly, well ,"possessed")

CSM Havocs

Bikes

Chaos Terminators

Chaos Assault Terminators

Obliterators (could be interchangeable with Termies at least).

four fully plastic Cult Marine kits

blister upgrade packs for legions (and/or lesser warbands or "generic" additional icons)

Black Templar style full box upgrades for the big four, or for the gods (non-legion specific), or possibly one for each major legion (i.e. Berserkers and a tactical Khorne banner shouldn't be the sole source of Khornate bitz - maximize variety across the kits).

fully customizable Cult box w/ Genestealer Cult upgrade sprues for use on IG and whatnot

Deimos pattern Rhino kit (i.e. unique Rhino kit that would obviously still appeal to loyalist players)

Deimos pattern Predator - include Chaos-specific options as well as the loyalist/standard spread

Proteus pattern Land Raider - include Chaos-specific options as well as the loyalist/standard spread

Heresy-era vehicle kit and/or "mercenary" type kits representing desperate/willing CSM alterations to existing templates to use either more brutal, dependable, or alien technologies.

1 or 2 non-monster flyers

at least one plastic kit for each HQ/character type

additional legion or cult-specific units, similar to what FW does with the Horus Heresy line

 

That comes off as a wishlist, but the point is more is that this is what the CSM range would probably look like if it mirrored the loyalist options better. Which in turn I think would naturally provide enough options without necessarily having to fight over how "plain" or "ornate" or other aesthetic considerations.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

I've cried for years now that the treatment GW has given our model line overall is second only the non-existent,  semi-extinct Sisters of Bitter line...

For what is supposed to be not only the biggest,  baddest threat to the Imperium,  but also THE no.1 antagonist in the entire beautiful setting,  it's beyond criminal how Gee-Dubs (or rather Jervis "I hate Chaos" Johnson),  has allowed our model to rot away for over 10+ years now.

 

Overall,  I'd personally prefer to see a new 'modern' CSM look that;

1.  Basic stuff is basic.

Our bread & butter Chaos Marine kit ideally should just be a cleaning up & overhauling of our current main kit.  Keep the trim,  add in embelishments like skulls,  pouches,  grenades,  'fleshy' impurity seals/heretical scriptures to hang from armour,  horns/a few spikes,  etc...  Nothing overly mutated/fleshy,  or insanely blinged out.

Oh,  and for feth's sake,  at least have the decency to give us 1-2 heavy weapons (personally I'd go for Heavy flamer + Missile launcher) + 4 Specials (give us back the Kai gun dammit!),  2 types of Power toy,  Fist,  Combi-weapon ala Loyalist Tac Squad.  (ie:  the 2-part version that builds 1 combi-weapon.)

 

2.  Havocs/Termies/Raptors are the mid point

Make the specialists stand out for sure against the bread & butter,  but don't go 100% hyper detailed  ultra-blinged out!

 

Oh,  and how about a Termie kit that can at least build 5 dudes with Combi-bolters + Power toy?  That kit is the single most god-awful pile of rank monkey poo GW has ever produced...  $60 of pure unplayable,  flaming garbage.

 

3.  Cults,  Chosen,  Possessed is where the bling goes crazy!

THIS is where I'd prefer to see everything get ramped up to the nines ala DV Chosen levels of details!  These are the truly dedicated Traitors who've typically given themselves over body & soul to the Dark Gods,  and thus,  should have the most mutations,  trim,  added details,  etc...

Also,  wouldn't it be grand if say the 4 main Cult kits came with a couple Termie shoulder pads as well?  Between the little 'extras' like sigils/pouches/shrunked heads,  etc....,  why not a Deathwatch style shoulder pad set-up with 12-16 pads per 5 PA grunts,  + 2 Termie pads per set?!

 

Anyways,  that just my personal dream.

[Paradigm]

Am I alone in wanting the kit to be left alone or updated with the exact same aesthetic?

 

The raptor kit is beautiful, but takes the change too far for ordinary csm. The chosen, are chosen.

 

I want all the fine cast gone. Even before we get new berzerkers.

 

I'll be happy most likely with anything they do, as long as the rules are good and the models are consistent with the faction.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

The main things the 'current' squad badly needs is simply;

1.  Re-designed legs/torso ala Tactical Marines.

Essentially,  please get them out of the current,  "squatting to drop a giant turd" pose.  Currently,  CSM's are positively weeny looking vs. the newer stuff from the past 7-8 years.  Hell,  gakking CADIANS are just about as tall as our current grunts! >.<

 

2.  Provide at least 1 of each basic god-damned option!

While we'll never get ALL the options,  (especially the likes of heavy weapons!),  it's infuriating to still be the one and only army outside of the poor Sisters of Bitter who barely get at best 50% of our most 'basic' wargear options in the box...

Currently we get a Heavy bolter,  Flamer/Melta/Plasma guns,  Power sword/fist,  and because "reasons",  2x Plasma pistols!  That's garbage.

Give us a Heavy flamer + Missile launcher (or keep the Heavy bolter),  Flamer/Melta/Plasma gun,  2 different Power toys,  Fist,  1 Plasma pistol,  1 Hand flamer (seriously,  why does THE assault MEQ army not get these things?!),  and a Combi-weapon set like the Loyalists squad gets.

 

Keep all the super mutated/fleshy,  ultra blinged-out, hyper detailed stuff to the Cults/Possessed/Chosen.

 

But for the love of feth,  re-design our basic kit to be equal in terms of it's basic options to the Loyalist one!  (Space Wolves are a perfect example of what GW can achieve ​*Edit*...)