The aesthetics of Chaos Space Marines

[Excessus]

Give us a Heavy flamer + Missile launcher (or keep the Heavy bolter),  Flamer/Melta/Plasma gun,  2 different Power toys,  Fist,  1 Plasma pistol,  1 Hand flamer (seriously,  why does THE assault MEQ army not get these things?!),  and a Combi-weapon set like the Loyalists squad gets.

Err, I don't know if you know this but we can't use either heavy or hand flamers. This is a topic about the aestethics of the CSM models, not a whine thread about what's in the codex or not.

[Spacefrisian]

Its what he wants on the sprue from what i get.

 

For that manner i always wondered why they didnt add an option to turn that Heavybolter into another weapon, doesnt seem that hard to make it have an option to change it into a Lascannon, Reapercannon or Heavy flamer version (maybe even a Blastmaster). Imagin the Havoc kit having 5 models and enough on a sprue to make 4 of these, with the remaining weapons in pairs on an extra sprue (call them Havocks/ Chaos Chosen and you have a nice kit).

[Excessus]

Its what he wants on the sprue from what i get.

 

We don't have those options in our codex, so if he wants it on the sprue he wants it in the codex and that's offtopic... ;)

[Doctor Perils]

Its what he wants on the sprue from what i get.

 

For that manner i always wondered why they didnt add an option to turn that Heavybolter into another weapon, doesnt seem that hard to make it have an option to change it into a Lascannon, Reapercannon or Heavy flamer version (maybe even a Blastmaster). Imagin the Havoc kit having 5 models and enough on a sprue to make 4 of these, with the remaining weapons in pairs on an extra sprue (call them Havocks/ Chaos Chosen and you have a nice kit).

If GW made those, I'd buy a metric and an imperial tonne of those!

[Spacefrisian]

You wouldnt be the only one i think.

[Doctor Perils]

What would be even more awesome about that idea is that they could then create upgrade sprues that include special and heavy weapon "barrel" bits, that could be used to create noise marines with blastmasters, or else to add to vehicles as replacements to the normal weapons -> sonic preds, here I come!!!

 

With the current "Upgrade Sprue Mania", I could even see it happening in a similar way. (*add item to wishlist*)

[Tyrannicide]

I've got a mental picture of less mutations, random spikes and weird trim, and closer in style to Dan the Demon and Heinrich's boys. A more subtle, yet functional look and feel. For certain warbands the heavy organic look can work, but it's not my preference. Beyond the really powerful warbands and Black Legion elements, the average warband should look like battered survivors with reclaimed Imperial equipment and weaponry. They're like a continuation of the Blackshields from 30k. The smaller warbands probably wouldn't have the necessary means to fabricate their own armor, or if they did, it's crude in comparison to what the larger warbands have at their disposal.

 

I'd like to build my own Warband one day, but it's a matter of waiting to see what GW has planned for Chaos. Feel bad that you guys have had the same plastics for so long now. The basic squad needs an update badly!

[Daenerys Targaryen]

More than anything else,  I just wish we could finally do away with the awful "drooping bums while waiting to drop a giant turd" squatting pose.

 

 

Edit:

@Excessus:  I don't really think that bringing wishlisting/new codex into the discussion is really all that off topic...

 

Currently our 'aesthetics' is nothing more than a mishmash of 2nd/3rd/4th/6th ed designs all badly cobbled together,  that has been further gakked all over by the fact that GW has given us the 'identity' of being 'HeresyVets-turnedChapterRenegades-butalsoDarkMech-because... "reasons"!'

 

We are ONLY going to get a proper,  unified aesthetic by essentially throwing 95% of our current model line into a dumpster and re-doing everything from before 2012 from scratch.

Hence,  why I feel it's fine to bring into the discussion things like possible new basic wargear upgrades,  as well as what/how everything should ultimately look.

 

If part of our defining image is being a brutal,  dark mirror of our Loyalist cousins,  then not only should it show in the styles of armour Chaos Marines wear,  but also in there weaponry - hence why I'd love to see Hand/Heavy flamers added to our (abysmally tiny) armoury,  as well as some truly chaotic weaponry such as something Kai Gun'esque,  Chem flamers for Nurgle,  double-handed chainaxes/eviscerators for Khorne,  etc...

Likewise,  I think that ALL of our weaponry should be good and spiky/mutated - more so than perhaps the Marines themselves in places.  (ie:  basic CSM's get a look similar to the current age-old set,  but bling-up those weapons to the levels of what the Raptor kit is!)

 

Who doesn't want to see say,  a new-look Havoc kit where parts of the Marine have actually melded with their gun?!

Or how about Chosen/new Termies getting weapons that might appear almost sentient in their own right?!

 

Most of all,  adding a metric gak tonne of new options is going to be critical to a Chaos redesign,  since currently,  we have the smallest basic wargear list of anyone,  outside of Sisters and the mini-dex armies!

[Large and Moving Torb]

I'll put myself in the camp of those who see the more basic look as the starting point. I definitely think there should be a more embellished look to the armor, certainly more than the current kit. But I don't think the basic Chaos Space Marine model kit should have warped armor after the fashion of the current Possessed model kit. I'd even say the Dark Vengeance Chosen go a bit too far in that direction. As others have said, I think the current Raptor kit gets it about right. 

 

And really, that has to be the starting point. The basic CSM kit has to baseline at the common renegade Astartes level, and then allow for building up and converting from there. I do think there should be some options on the sprue to add some mutated elements to parts of the armor so folks don't have to buy the basic CSM kit and a Possessed kit. I know the current kit for various loyalist factions is a three sprue affair. I'd actually argue that the CSM kit should be four sprues just to cover the various options that should be available to us. But a baseline aesthetic for CSM should really be the goal of the fellows developing the next kit.

 

Alternatively, it could be possible to break CSMs into two basic books: Heretic Astartes, who would be more or less religious followers of the Chaos Gods (e.g.: Word Bearers, Death Guard, etc.), including the cult armies, and Renegade Astartes, who would be traitors aligned with Chaos, but not necessarily zealous supplicants of Chaos (e.g.: Night Lords, Iron Warriors, etc. ). That would allow GW to make to related, but distinct, aesthetics for CSM and thus two different basic kits, which I do think you could do in the current three sprue box scheme. Do I think this will happen? Unfortunately, no. But I think it would be a good way for pleasing more folks.  

[Sception]

I greatly prefer some chaos in my 40k era chaos marines, models that actively show the results of spending 10,000 years living in a daemon-haunted realm where metaphor and physical reality are indistinguishable.  Models that are just 'old armor marks without all those spikes and mutations' are fine for some, but those who want that have the 30k line, now available in plastic from GW so you don't even have to bother with expensive FW resin.  There is literally no excuse left for doing the 40k CSM range in that style, it would be utterly and completely redundant.

 

What I would rather have are nice, multi-part kits in the style of the dark vengeance chosen and lord, maybe only slightly toned down for non-elite units, mostly so they're less of a hassle to paint.  Stuff like this:

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/chaos02_zpsxauoasbm.png

especially that chest/abdomen section with the toothed semicircle

 

or this:

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/chaos03_zps5nycb7bg.png

again, I love the toothed semi-circle about the chest/abdomen area, and especially the daemonic eyes on the chest, the way the hornes on the helmet are positioned, the square shinguard, etc.

 

 

Just maybe with smaller backpacks (again, a la the dark vengeance models).

 

That's a style that would actually set 40k chaos marines apart from both their contemporary loyalist counterparts and the plain archaic look already more than adequately covered by the growing 30k line.  It would be models worth making, with a distinctive style and personality.

[Khornestar]

Rofl I love the hole getting blown through that poor guardsman.

 

I agree with you, though. I'm a really big fan of that art style, as well. I got back into 40k just after the 6th edition/Dark Vengeance stuff dropped and was just captivated by the minis and the art style in the codex.

[Midnightmare]

That first picture, Mal, is the one that I have based my Chaos marine style. I love it!

[Guest Royal Cactus]

I think the look on a CSM depends.

 

Legion: Oder Power Armor patterns that are heavaly mutated, maybe sprinkle some newer patterns from raids in and you're good to go. But i would really like to see more Mutation in the next CSM box in the Codex you can read how the CSM Bikers are becomming one with there bikes or how the weapons of a Havoc squat are growing teeth of there own and all kinds of nasty stuff :D

 

Renegae Chapters: I would think the use newer patterns of Armour like Mark 6, 7 or 8. the Champions could be mutated and the Rest could have some more spikes and stuff but nothing too crazy since they still have to learn there favour of the goes.

 

At least that is how i could see the CSMs

[Doctor Perils]

I greatly prefer some chaos in my 40k era chaos marines, models that actively show the results of spending 10,000 years living in a daemon-haunted realm where metaphor and physical reality are indistinguishable. Models that are just 'old armor marks without all those spikes and mutations' are fine for some, but those who want that have the 30k line, now available in plastic from GW so you don't even have to bother with expensive FW resin. There is literally no excuse left for doing the 40k CSM range in that style, it would be utterly and completely redundant.

What I would rather have are nice, multi-part kits in the style of the dark vengeance chosen and lord, maybe only slightly toned down for non-elite units, mostly so they're less of a hassle to paint. Stuff like this:

especially that chest/abdomen section with the toothed semicircle

or this:

again, I love the toothed semi-circle about the chest/abdomen area, and especially the daemonic eyes on the chest, the way the hornes on the helmet are positioned, the square shinguard, etc.

Just maybe with smaller backpacks (again, a la the dark vengeance models).

That's a style that would actually set 40k chaos marines apart from both their contemporary loyalist counterparts and the plain archaic look already more than adequately covered by the growing 30k line. It would be models worth making, with a distinctive style and personality.

Okay, I think there may have been a misunderstanding People who have a problem with the "overly mutated" style (in the sense that they don't want it for their models) probably don't have a problem with the first style you present, mostly the second style

Anyway, that's how I see it

[Daenerys Targaryen]

For me,  it's more the fact that if everything was at a minimum DV Chosen levels of detail/mutated,  the entire army as whole would look like a gakking monstrosity of "what the hell is any of that?".

 

Basically,  all I want to see is the basic stuff (Marines,  Havocs,  Raptors),  being no more than 40-50% 'details'

The new Raptor kit is a perfect balance imho!

 

Now Cults,  Termies & Chosen?  Ramp those bad*** dudes up to like 70-75% super details.

 

Only the truly daemonic stuff though should be effectively "super fleshy mutated & what's armour vs. 'living' psycho killing machine?!"

[Large and Moving Torb]

I greatly prefer some chaos in my 40k era chaos marines, models that actively show the results of spending 10,000 years living in a daemon-haunted realm where metaphor and physical reality are indistinguishable. Models that are just 'old armor marks without all those spikes and mutations' are fine for some, but those who want that have the 30k line, now available in plastic from GW so you don't even have to bother with expensive FW resin. There is literally no excuse left for doing the 40k CSM range in that style, it would be utterly and completely redundant.

What I would rather have are nice, multi-part kits in the style of the dark vengeance chosen and lord, maybe only slightly toned down for non-elite units, mostly so they're less of a hassle to paint. Stuff like this:

especially that chest/abdomen section with the toothed semicircle

or this:

again, I love the toothed semi-circle about the chest/abdomen area, and especially the daemonic eyes on the chest, the way the hornes on the helmet are positioned, the square shinguard, etc.

Just maybe with smaller backpacks (again, a la the dark vengeance models).

That's a style that would actually set 40k chaos marines apart from both their contemporary loyalist counterparts and the plain archaic look already more than adequately covered by the growing 30k line. It would be models worth making, with a distinctive style and personality.

Okay, I think there may have been a misunderstanding People who have a problem with the "overly mutated" style (in the sense that they don't want it for their models) probably don't have a problem with the first style you present, mostly the second style

Anyway, that's how I see it

^^^ Yup! Pretty much this.

One other thing I'd like to add: I'd like to see more cables, too. Maybe I'm a sucker for some of the 1990s models, but I like having CSM with the extra cables, hoses, wires, etc. I always liked the CSM art that depicted this. Like the giant cable coming out the side of the chaos lord's head, and the cables/hoses going into nostrels and such. Just because I always found that look profoundly unnatural. It seems now, with the way GW can create the models, such details would be possible to do, especially for champion model components.

[Sception]

I also like cables. I'm particularly fond of the cables on the dark vengeance chosen's torsos running under the arms.

 

As for the two pics I posted, the first, slightly (not entirely) less daemonic pic is what I'd like basic chaos marines, havocs, bikes, etc to look like, while the slightly more demonic look is what I'd like to see from characters, terminators, chosen, cult marines, etc, basically more veteran stuff. Give a sense that the more time you spend in the warp, the more it changes you, without having to explicitly say it as such. Let the models speak for themselves.

[Evil Eye]

Some of my favourite Chaos models, actually, are some of the old 3rd/4th edition metal Chaos Lords and the like, such as that gorgeous metal Terminator Lord. They had the very baroque, detailed and clearly chaotic look without being covered in mutations and flesh. They looked less like "Space Marines with horns and new backpacks" and more like the savage far-future knights of the dark gods they're supposed to be. I'd be down for more kits designed like those.