Elysium126 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I'm trying to narrow down the list to the one legion I'm going to start with. Can anyone help with the real difference between um forces and ec forces? Things like tactics, average army composition, and style? Not special elites or primarchs just tactics and play styles please. I have looked all over the web but I would like comparison information if possible Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Have a read of the heresy books. Any army can be any thing. Average composition for both is some power armoured dudes backed up with some other dudes with swords, some dudes in terminator armour, and some tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4485207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Ultramarines do make use of Interlocking Tactics which means your army will have infantry based shooting if you want to take advantage of it. Tacticals make good use of them (Veteran) as do Heavy Support squads. Consider missile launchers as blast markers will still enjoy them despite opposing power armour. Ultramarines can be very "combined arms". They have very strong assault forces as well as shooting being good. To do both will mean less focused an army, but you get tools to oppose most opponents. Shooting dead World Eaters is most people's idea of a good approach, but a counter attack with our assault forces will hurt bad if timed correctly. I'll let more seasoned Heresy Veterans give a more indepth explanation of the Ultramarines and hopefully the EC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4485212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Average composition for both is some power armoured dudes backed up with some other dudes with swords, some dudes in terminator armour, and some tanks. You forgot the big dudes (Primarchs) But you are right the majority is standard units not legion specific units, so take whichever legion's fluff you prefer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4485213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Emperor's Children are all about destroying and sweeping their opponents in close combat. They gain initiative bonuses on the charge and in challenges, and their signature weapon - a Phoenix Spear - is also far more powerful on the charge. They have bonuses to sweeping advance and as befits their lore, they're all about maximising their chances of a perfect assault phase that ends with an enemy unit being cut down as they try to flee. While they have the Kakophoni - proto-Noise Marines - who are lethal at long range, all of their bonuses and wargear are close combat related. EC armies are always built around close combat or at least involve a heavy close combat component. Ultramarines are all about working as a unit. They re-roll 1's to hit at a target if another Ultramarine unit has already shot at it, and re-roll charge distances against enemies already in combat with an Ultramarine unit. From memory they also test fear/rally checks on LD10 as well, so they're disciplined (as you'd expect). Very versatile and flexible depending on what you want to take in your army. EC = close combat, fast, aim for a perfect assault phase UM = more generic but units are stronger when working in tandem Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4485241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Ultramarines are fun to play in any style, easier to paint effectively. I would never describe the Ultras in 30k as generic, they have awesome specialised units - Artifacer clad assault marines, shooty Terminators, powerful Primarch who bolsters the army. I'd go with them :-) But EC are great, I really like them. In both cases I'd build forces around the Primarchs and their army buffs in mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4485363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 My advice, pick the one whose models and fluff you like better...you can basically run any legion in an style you want and be pretty effective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4485734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pounder Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Not that I'm biased or anything, but I'd go with the XIIIth! Although our Legion rule isn't the best the specific units are the dog's bollocks. Suzerain can hold their own against most opponents. Locutarus are a nightmare for power armoured units. Ultramarines really come into in their own when led by the big man. He offers so many force multiplying rules he's a must have for larger games. All that aside, space Romans are just too cool! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4485826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 The IIIrd company of the IIIrd Legion is one of the shootiest options in the game. They also work well at combined arms. Ultras have better unique units, Children have better Rites. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4485986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Not sure about ultras. As a long term EC player from 'olden times' of betrayal the new rules have galvanised the legion. Do you like what EC are in the books? Sniffing promethium fumes and nipple piercings just this way! Ultras seem OK, but I tire of such warriors, never enough sensation In battle! Aside got that using ec can be tricky, combining shooting and attacks and timing right. Just as they should be Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4486007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 EC are definitely strong. To be perfectly honest, in either Legion's case I'd run them as Primarch's Chosen, making use of the excellent Veterans as troops and a few unique additions to each Legion. Fulgrim can make some units infiltrate so you could plan for that for example... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4486012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Emperor's Children are all about destroying and sweeping their opponents in close combat. If you want them to be. How does the all predator force achieve this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4486457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Emperor's Children are all about destroying and sweeping their opponents in close combat. If you want them to be. How does the all predator force achieve this? "GO TO RAMMING SPEED!" - ramming should be close enough to CC for tanks. And at least one predator should have its voxcasters blaring this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4486845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 EC are definitely strong. To be perfectly honest, in either Legion's case I'd run them as Primarch's Chosen, making use of the excellent Veterans as troops and a few unique additions to each Legion. Fulgrim can make some units infiltrate so you could plan for that for example... I wouldn't bother with Primarch's Chosen for Ultras, since you can take Suzerain and Terminators as troops with Guilliman, so you could still avoid the basic troop tax, avoid the drawbacks of pride, and pick another Rite of your choice. Fulgrim is the only Primarch with a real warlord trait, and he can pick one from the best table available. I assume Fulgrim is Skorr in disguise. Hail Hydra. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4486975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 FYI, today fulgrim took down corax on his own charge In 3 turns in a challenge, lovely blade work! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4497597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Yeah, Corax unfortunately isn't very tanky against another Primarch. He's better off cutting his way through big infantry units. My Guilliman has now battled Angron, Curze and Vulkan and he has performed very, very well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4497620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Commander Eidolon Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 I know this is slightly off tangent, but I think 'building' your army is also a lot about what you want to paint, how you want to play and the 'fluffy' aspects of the legion in question. Essentially all marines are more or less the same, so the question is do you like blue or purple more, and what would you actually want to paint! The Horus Heresy was originally designed to allow the same models to fight against each other.... A basic marine force can go anyway you want, it is the special elites that add to the character. Yes, you can have a shooty, heavy armour EC army, just as easily as a fast attack UM. The question would be what do you want to model and paint! Are you going loyalist or traitor EC? I actually draw a lot of inspiration from the UM for my loyalist(ish) ECs, in a way they could be considered pink ultras..... This creates it's own issues, as I can't really use Kakophoni, which are a pretty effective force with the 3rd Company Rite of War!! I am not really going for what plays well, I am going for the background that I like and then trying to build around that. Both Legions were known to be good all rounders, but the EC were certainly prone to favour fast attacks and graceful close combat, with Maru Skara rite trying to reflect that. I'm not a UM player, but i'd echo the comments about them being tactically flexible and working as a unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4497650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4497884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldier of Dorn Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Both. Do ALL the Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4497900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCelticRaven Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Have a read of the heresy books. Any army can be any thing. Average composition for both is some power armoured dudes backed up with some other dudes with swords, some dudes in terminator armour, and some tanks. *looks at you with my fully terminator armoured death guard* BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAA! POWER ARMOUR IS FOR THE WEAK! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4497958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 children for fluff, ultras for crunch? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4498094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Ultras have better fluff, imo :-P The EC can be pretty strong on the tabletop as I've mentioned, but generally I'd say the Ultras have more crunch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4498103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 You see I'm the opposite I find ultras kinda boring and 'vanilla' whereas I love the EC and their descent into anarchy etc etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4498273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Ultras have better fluff, imo :-P The EC can be pretty strong on the tabletop as I've mentioned, but generally I'd say the Ultras have more crunch. Erm, one Legion's fluff includes a mountain of hookers and blow. The other is all about abstaining from things like hookers and blow. Which has the better fluff again? Methinks the Charley Sheen Legion has it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325339-advice-question-ultramarine-or-emperors-children/#findComment-4498733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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