Headhunters vs Seekers

[matrent89]

Just starting an age of darkness Alpha Legion Force and was wondering what people's thoughts are on these two units? From what I father the seekers not only have more killing power they are cheaper which makes me quite sad.

 

Hydra Dominatus Brothers

[Ceiling_matt]

headhunters are a confused assault unit and if taken at all I recommend taking combi flamers for them, combination of infiltraite and scout should ensure that you've set yourself either to be charged or charge in the next turn. that said, they aren't particularly good at that either.

[Terminus]

Headhunters are the absolute WORST unique unit in the game, hands down.   Pretend their unit entry does not exist.

 

Their models are cool, and you can even use the combi-bolters to represent Seeker's guns (different barrels for different rounds).  Just use them as Seekers or Vets with combi-weapons.  

[Charlo]

Do I want to love HH? Yep.

 

Do I actually love them? No.

 

After the red book update they were left totally out of the water. Cool gear, but bad execution. Would be better if vets could just take power daggers.

[Caustic63]

Headhunters are the absolute WORST unique unit in the game, hands down.   Pretend their unit entry does not exist.

 

Their models are cool, and you can even use the combi-bolters to represent Seeker's guns (different barrels for different rounds).  Just use them as Seekers or Vets with combi-weapons.  

 

This is quite the shift compared to the days when Emperor's Children had two of the worst unique units in the whole game (Phoenix Terminators, Kakophoni). Thankfully those days are behind us now thanks to a cascade of recent buffs, but tbh I think you are being too hard on Headhunters. Side by side with Seekers, they come with TL Boltguns, Power Daggers and Venom Spheres at the cost of the flexibility of special ammunition (if you want to argue the points reduction and new Scorpius Rounds make Seekers better I'll join you in that camp).

 

Headhunters can also be taken as Troops in their own RoW, which means you can build an army around both them and Seekers... though this approach does come with its flaws and drawbacks.

[Terminus]

Phoenix Terminators still suck for their point cost, and are in a way exceptional in that regard, since all the 2+ uniques are solid. Gorgon terminators may share this rare distinction, but both units can do decent work if accompanying their Primarch.

 

Headhunters on the other hand, suck at everything by trying to do it all. Even Ravagers don't talk to Headhunters at the uncool kids' table.

[Brofist]

I dunno Terminus, Iron Cirlce are preetty bad...

[Terminus]

I guess I should have expanded my thoughts. Everything with a 2+ save is good except maybe the aforementioned two examples. Everything in power armor sucks except Terror Squads (expensive!), Mor Deythan (can basically do the same with Veterans), Kakophoni (in IIIrd company), and maybe Havocs (heavy support slot).

[matrent89]

I was thinking of a squad with combiplasma since they have precision shots to try and kill characters in big squads

[Terminus]

Stop thinking of it!

 

Seekers and marksmen veterans also have precision shots and those attacks can still be Look Out Sir'd.

[matrent89]

Did something change to gain precision shot? It's not listed in my book

[Terminus]

Seekers have it in both physical and iTunes version. Vets get it from sniper.

[matrent89]

Found it on fw FAQ and errata, didn't have it when they first released the book I guess

[Charlo]

Yeeep! Plus seekers are BS5 and still hella useful once the plasma is spent.

[TheAlephNull]

They are such amazing looking models and so fluffy. Forge World seduced me into buying 30 of them. Now I am just growing more and more insane as I attempt to find a way to make them work.

[Terminus]

Why? Just use them as cool looking seekers or veterans with combi weapons, or even as conversion bases for unit leaders or rewards of treason units.

 

The only thing you'd be missing out on are the combi bolters, which I guess you could use either as base seeker bolters or recon/marauder shotguns or give them to your terminators.

[Aramis K]

I struggle to see the role of the HH. The daggers and venom spheres suggest an assault role, but they can't charge after firing the combi-bolters. And in assault or shooting they can't deal with 2+ saves which makes me wonder what heads they're after.

I'd like to turn them into Dire Avengers, Assault 2 rending banestrike bolters.

 

I really want to run them, but am sticking with sniper Vets and Seekers for now.

[Flint13]

I dunno Terminus, Iron Cirlce are preetty bad...

Nah, they're overpriced. There's a dif.

[TheAlephNull]

If someone were going to be super stubborn, and really wanted to try and make a Leviathal work... How does the following sound?

 

10 Heahunters with combi-meltas in Dreadclaw dedicated transport.

(2x) Squads of standard loadout Headhunters, infiltrating.

 

Scout army wide.

 

General idea being that you should be able to pop any dedicated transport with the dreadclaw dropping the melta team behind at the rear armour (Dynat somewhere for his buff). The other two squads would infiltrate and scout up enough to simply pump so many rounds into the target that lookout Sirs are just not going to cut it. Alpha strike slay the warlord and first blood. 

[TheAlephNull]

It just seems to me that the way to fix Headhunters would be to make Banestrike an assault type. This would simply and instantly make Headhunters a viable tool and would also give Sons of Horus Reavers a needed buff. 

 

Would also simplify things for Forge World as they would only need to roll out an FAQ on Banestrike rather than a unit entry. 

[Terminus]

Assault 2 banestrikes followed by power daggers would actually give them a specific role of power-armor killers. They would still be a flavor unit, but at least not one you're embarrassed to bring to the table.

[TheAlephNull]

Assault 2 banestrikes followed by power daggers would actually give them a specific role of power-armor killers. They would still be a flavor unit, but at least not one you're embarrassed to bring to the table.

Now, someone convince Forge World that this needs to happen...

[Charlo]

 

Assault 2 banestrikes followed by power daggers would actually give them a specific role of power-armor killers. They would still be a flavor unit, but at least not one you're embarrassed to bring to the table.

Now, someone convince Forge World that this needs to happen...

 

Could even be just a cool special rule:

 

"Dangerous Game: Alpha Legion Head Hunters have developed tactics, arms and armour to combat enemy Astartes ad infinitum and are most efficient when fighting this foe. They remain unseen before unleashing a devastating volley from their banestrike bolters, before charging in for the Coup de grace with thier power daggers.

 

Units with this rule may declare a charge against enemies with the Legiones Astartes Special rule, even if they had shot Rapid Fire weapons in the preceding shooting phase."

 

Wordy but specifically cool.

[ddarz]

Add a clause that they can do this even if they have infiltrated/scouted, and you have my vote ;)
Otherwise they will always eat a charge from whatever they infiltrated next to

[Fallen11]

Give them old lictors rule. They can deepstrike into terrain or just appear, you mark it before enemy deploys his units, and you can charge after that. Maybe improve banestrike, to give themm some kind of assault 1/2.
Would be fluffy, cool, not to op, since it's expensive unit, which still sucks vs any cc unit, enemy can still shoot you if they have someone like master of signal in a unit...but at the same time, they will always wonder, is my unit safe.